Any Reason To Use Gunslinger?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Now that we have Spell Cartridges, is the Gunslinger class still useful at all?

To me, it seems like Magus is gonna be the new sheriff in these parts, especially with the ability to fully bypass all DR.

Even if the issue of proficiency is brought up, you're going to be hitting touch anyways, and Arcane Strike applies to all your weapons so two-weapon fighting is now incredibly viable.


All the grit abilities still make the GS useful.


Is there anything you can do with Grit that you can't with magus spells?


Is there a Magus archetype that lets them duel wield? I'm under the impression that they can only use 1 weapon and do spell combat.

Also Gunslinger is a full BAB class, and adding dex to damage is a big thing for Gunslinger.

And getting Spell Cartridges working is feat intensive. You're paying 2 feats to have the privilege of spending all of your swift actions to drop your weapon's damage down to 1d4 per 5 caster levels. You need to be 10th level to get Spell Cartridges to be even with a pistol's base damage. And by the time you get to 3d4 damage...it would of been trivial to get a shadowcrafted/shadowshooting or pistol of the infinate sky and save yourself 2 feats.


And if you are a 15th level Magus, would you rather use Spell Cartridges or Quicken spells? Both are swift actions and one is a hell of a lot more effective than the other.


Two feats and a swift to bypass DR, deal full damage to incorporeals, and no need to reload ever? Yeah I'd say that's pretty worth it.

If you're going for a gun-wielding magus, you're probably not all that worried about in-combat spellcasting, and even then you can just stick to one gun, buff yourself up for 2-3 rounds with spell combat, then pull out the second gun and go to town.

Ontop of all that, there is the massive amount of gold you save on not having to buy or make bullets. Oh what's that. DR/Adamantine? Ignored. Epic? Ignored.


Dex to damage with firearms, Makes crossbows a useful combat style.

There are reasons to play gunslinger.


A 5th level magus is doing about 1d4+3 damage with spell cartridges. A gunslinger 5 is doing about 1d8+5 or 1d12+5.

A magus 10 is up to 2d4+5 or so. A gunslinger 5 / inquisitor 5 has 1d8+9+2d6 easily enough.

Adding deadly aim helps the gunslinger more than the magus too.


Musketmaster 5/Inquisitor X is pretty damn brutal. Especially with a double barrel musket.

If you've got full casters in your party for support, you can do pretty much all the same stuff but with a higher to hit (in case of rare high touch AC enemies) and rain down obnoxious amounts of damage.


Opuk0 wrote:

Two feats and a swift to bypass DR, deal full damage to incorporeals, and no need to reload ever? Yeah I'd say that's pretty worth it.

If you're going for a gun-wielding magus, you're probably not all that worried about in-combat spellcasting, and even then you can just stick to one gun, buff yourself up for 2-3 rounds with spell combat, then pull out the second gun and go to town.

Ontop of all that, there is the massive amount of gold you save on not having to buy or make bullets. Oh what's that. DR/Adamantine? Ignored. Epic? Ignored.

Buff yourself up? You do know how a Magus generally tends to do things, right? A normal magus uses a swift action to imbue his weapon with an enchantment (1 arcane pool point), and then does his spell combat to take his full attack action with his weapon (at -2 to hit), and usually a touch spell so they can use their weapon for one more strike. And an Elderich Archerer build would generally abuse something like Snowball instead of Shocking Grasp. So instead of casting haste at 8th level you might be more tempted to do a quickened snowball + intensified snowball instead of casting haste if you wanted to end a fight quickly. Especially if someone else can cast haste.

Depending on Spell Cartridges means you can't enchant your weapon because you only have 1 swift action a turn and you can't substitute a different action for it.

As for doing half damage to incorporeal? You're already doing half damage of a normal pistol against everything until you hit 10th level. Also that enchant damage that you can't use because your swift actions are already accounted for? By 10th level its a +3 enchantment bonus that you can trade for 1d6 of elemental damage of up to 3 different elements. So what is better, a 2d4 force damage, or 1d8 piercing/blunt +1d6 cold +1d6 acid +1d6 lightning?

By the way, the example looks ever better at first level. Which would you prefer, 1d8 +1d6 acid or 0d4? Spell Cartridges according to RAW do no damage till you hit 5th level. At at 5th level a Magus can use his arcane pool to add +2 enchant to his weapon.

And that second gun idea? Would you rather do an additional basic attack, or an additional basic attack + 1d3 acid or ice damage? If you use Spell Combat, you get to shoot an additional time and if you hit you can stack your shot + spell. The cantrips icy ray and acid splash work for spell combat. There is absolutely no reason why a second gun would be better. Especially since it would cost you more resource to prep a second gun! More spells, more gold, more arcane pool points.

And if you prep your magus to abuse a single spell most of the time you'll burn a 1st level slot to do an extra 10d6 cold damage, or whatever damage your elemental metamagic is set for. If you burn a 2nd level spell you'd cast a 15d6 snowball. You could use a 3rd level spell to Quicken Snowball but it would only do 5d6 unless you use a rod to intensify it (or something). A 4th level slot do to an additional attack at 10d6 seems better. Those quickened spells need a swift action to give you the second spell combat attack each round.

Early levels you'd pay gold to keep making bullets. It would be worth spending your first feat to gain Gunsmith for the cheap ammo. And until you can get your hands on a pistol that doesn't need ammo you would need rapid reload. But once you can get a gun that doesn't need ammo (shadowshooting/shadowcrafted/sky pistol thing) that is 2 more feats you can retrain into being a better caster.


Just be a Gunslinger with an enchanted pistol to never reload. That exists and is way cheaper then two feats and a swift.


Why don't you just make an evocation wizard at that point? It sounds like you're trying to do more damage with spells than with your weapon.


Magus doesn't seem like the best use of this. There are issues with BAB, and the penalties of spell combat don't seem to mix too well with the attack penalties of a traditional archery build.

A dawnflower dervish would probably take this feat farther. With double inspire courage bonuses, they can add a ton of damage to each hit and get full BAB levels of attack bonus.

But sometimes, people just want something that works 'now', rather than having to wait a dozen levels to get enough feats for basic performance of their feat intensive build. That is the value of a gunslinger.


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This is a joke thread, right?

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