Between myself and the other mage in the party, we've put together a pretty impressive list of items we want to make. The problem is it would take over a year of campaign time to put any kind of real dent in the list.
Obvious solution - first we make a magic item that speeds up making magic items!
The simplest first move is to simply make an ioun stone (or a piece of stationary lab equipment, whatever) which gives a +5 to spellcraft (or may as well go +10, why not?).
That would let you use the basic rules of doubling your work speed (pg 549, core rulebook) while essentially removing the penalty +5 to item creation DC.
Item with skill +5 is only 5k, and 5 days of work. Simple. Now I can work twice as fast.
But what if I want to go even faster? Any ideas?
PS And while I'm on the subject, what's the cost/requirements/CL/DC for a magic item that gives skill point boosts without boosting ability scores?
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I would suggest you start off with existing items: Armillary Amulet or Gloves of Elvenkind for +5 competence bonus at 2500/7500 gp, Masterwork Tool for +2 circumstance bonus for 50gp, Arcane Family Workbook for a +2/4 circumstance bonus for 300gp, pray at an Altar of Nethys for +2 circumstance that costs 8k, and Scimitar of the Spellthief for a +2 untyped but at 75k.
Circumstance bonuses "generally stack", but your mileage may vary.
Tend to a Bamboo Palace for 15 minutes for a +2 luck bonus to all skill checks for 1k(though unless you want to tend to it for a full year before getting those bonuses you might want to just buy the 8k version in full glory), Focus Chew for a +1 alchemical bonus to all int-based skill checks for 1 hour for 40gp (if your gm allows you to use multiple doses), Luckstone for +1 luck bonus to all skill checks for 20k, and Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone(Flawed) for a morale bonus to all skill checks for 28k.
Of course, spells like Heroism for +2 morale, Tears to Wine for a +2/5/10 enhancement bonus, and Visualization of the Mind for +5 untyped bonus. Other than the last one you will probably need a way to increase the duration.
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@Firebug: Those give Spellcraft bonuses, but they don't increase Crafting speed.
Unless you're suggesting that the "+5 for double speed" modifier can be stacked multiple times with itself, anything past the first +5 Spellcraft is pointless for this topic.
Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote: @Firebug: Those give Spellcraft bonuses, but they don't increase Crafting speed.
Unless you're suggesting that the "+5 for double speed" modifier can be stacked multiple times with itself, anything past the first +5 Spellcraft is pointless for this topic.
The majority of the OP was about creating a specific new item for +5 to spellcraft so... essentially, I linked the Armillary Amulet and fell down the rabbit hole.
Unless you are adding Cooperative Crafting (say, via Valet familiar), or are looking into specific class features (Forgemaster, Arcane Builder discovery, Dwarf Wizard FCB), there really isn't anything to otherwise increase your crafting speed. You might as well make an item to create a greater demiplane with timeless/flowing time or something.
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The skill check, even with the +5 to Dc for speeding up, is extremely easy. You can take 10 with that check, so if you are making something that is appropriate for the level of your characters there is no risk of failure.
+3 for class skill, 1 rank/level in spellcraft, +10 for taking 10 mean that your base skill check result is 13+your character level even if you have a 10 in intelligence.
The DC of crafting an item is5+CL of the item+5 for speeding up. So 10+the item CL. As a minimum, you can make items that have a CL 3 points above your character level.
If you have an intelligence bonus that difference is even higher.
Note the FAQ about Pearls of power:
FAQ wrote: Pearl of Power: What is the caster level required to create this item?
Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.
However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.
For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
Unless the CL is part of the requirement of the item or some other rule mandate it (like for the weapons enhancement bonus) the item only need to meet the minimum CL for the spell in it.
Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote: @Firebug: Those give Spellcraft bonuses, but they don't increase Crafting speed.
Unless you're suggesting that the "+5 for double speed" modifier can be stacked multiple times with itself, anything past the first +5 Spellcraft is pointless for this topic.
Yeah, my main interest is simply to speed up construction time.
I have this mental picture of a circular workshop table with a hole in the center for the mage to stand/sit, which has a sort of "Doctor Octopus" style multi-arm component, allowing the user to craft at some increased percentage of speed.
I figure making it immobile, instead of something that could be taken out on adventures, would make it more palatable to a DM.
The time limitation to do this relates to the acceptable WBL gains you can get during downtime between adventures and if they have such a huge shopping list of items they want to make at a discount perhaps you should have a conversation with them about them bloating their intended power level because if 100% of the gear a party has is all crafted equipment you'll very quickly end up with a group of PCs who have FAR too much wealth and equipment than they are intended to have.
Forgefather’s Hammer
Anvil of the Skyseeker
Blackwick Cauldron
And possibly Amazing Tools of Manufacture
All effectively increase crafting speed, with certain restrictions.
Lelomenia wrote: Forgefather’s Hammer
[…]
All effectively increase crafting speed, with certain restrictions.
I can't find anything with that name. Only the Forgefather's Sledge, which can transform into a blacksmithing hammer, but offers no actual benefits over using a mundane one.
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Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote: Lelomenia wrote: Forgefather’s Hammer
[…]
All effectively increase crafting speed, with certain restrictions.
I can't find anything with that name. Only the Forgefather's Sledge, which can transform into a blacksmithing hammer, but offers no actual benefits over using a mundane one. Father’s Forgehammer, sorry.
wizards get discoveries that let you do it faster.
Lelomenia wrote: Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote: Lelomenia wrote: Forgefather’s Hammer
[…]
All effectively increase crafting speed, with certain restrictions.
I can't find anything with that name. Only the Forgefather's Sledge, which can transform into a blacksmithing hammer, but offers no actual benefits over using a mundane one. Father’s Forgehammer, sorry. Perfect!
So I basically just need to make a knock-off of an Improved Ring of Swimming, except with +10 to spellcraft instead of swimming.
Then I enchant some masterwork toolkit to have the 25% crafting time reduction (I can make the argument that I'm not asking for the other abilities of the Forgehammer, to make it a better sell to the DM).
End result - I can now craft things in ~37% on the original time. The magic item factory is now 3 times faster! And an extra +5 to my spellcraft rolls to boot!
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If you're high enough level to have someone in the party that can cast Breath of Life and are able to craft up some constructs to literally create assistants for yourself, Soulbound Mannequins are able to take Master Craftsman, Craft Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, and Cooperative Crafting. They come with 10 HD standard and you can make one with up to 15 HD thanks to Construct Modification.
IIRC, the 15 HD version should have an effective market price for crafting time of 24000, or 12 days at 2000 gp per day baseline just for being able to make the spellcraft DC + 5.
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Alternatively, a Priest or Mage that you can acquire through the Downtime subsystem is 3rd level and can therefore qualify for Craft Wondrous Item + Cooperative Crafting if you use Retraining. Takes 7 days to recruit either, and they cost 810 or 960 gp initially, or half that if you earn the capital or otherwise interact with the capital side of the Downtime subsystem.
Then 5 days per feat they don't already have that you need to give them. So 12 days to get an assistant if they already started out with Craft Wondrous Item, 17 days otherwise.Another 5 days if they don't have the right skill rank distribution to be able to qualify for Cooperative Crafting.
So 22 days, worst case scenario, and you don't have to spend time yourself on the last 6 days of the initial 7-day recruitment phase.
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If Leadership and customizing what kind of followers you get is on the table, then level 3+ followers can help with Craft Wondrous Items and level 5+ followers can help with Craft Arms and Armor.
Leadership score thresholds for level 3+ followers: A score of 15 gets you 1 follower, 17 gets you 2, 19 gets you 4, 20 gets you 6, 21 gets you 7, 22 gets you 9, 23 gets you 11, 24 gets you 12, and 25+ gets you 15.
Leadership score thresholds for level 5+ followers: A score of 19 gets you 1 follower, 21 gets you 2, 22 gets you 3, 25+ gets you 4.
All that in addition to a Cohort, of course.
When I was playing a Wizard that specialized in crafting magic items, raising the DC by 5 to double the amount crafted per day was trivial. GM allowed me to take 10 on crafting rolls (you are in a secure enviroment) so I could auto complete everything.
I also used leadership to get a cohort that was also a crafting wizard who had cooperative crafting. My character didn't take that feat. Also you don't really need an item to boost your spellcraft. Use your 1st or higher level followers to aid your spellcraft. That is an automatic +2 per assistant. Leadership is really broken for crafting.
If you can cast simulacrum you can take cooperative crafting and then copy yourself. You have to eliminate half your feats but so long as you keep the cooperative crafting and the feat to make the item that lets you craft another 1-2k per day per simulacrum.
And the ultimate cheat is to keep your cohort + followers + simulacrum working on crafting items while you are adventuring. With all of your followers aiding spellcraft, the DC shouldn't be a challenge. With enough followers skipping every prerequisite you can at +5 DC for each should be possible. You can't skip spell prerequisites on spell completion type items (wands, potions, scrolls, staves) but if you stick to wonderous items that shouldn't be a problem. So your Cohort should be the one actually producing the items, so if you have to drop out of the ceremony suddenly it doesn't stop the item from being crafted. You being there just speeds up the crafting 1-2k per day.
Assuming your GM allows retraining you could learn cooperative crafting, create your simulacrum, the retrain cooperative crafting away into Leadership. And your team of enchanters is all set up.
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harbqll wrote: Lelomenia wrote: Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote: Lelomenia wrote: Forgefather’s Hammer
[…]
All effectively increase crafting speed, with certain restrictions.
I can't find anything with that name. Only the Forgefather's Sledge, which can transform into a blacksmithing hammer, but offers no actual benefits over using a mundane one. Father’s Forgehammer, sorry. Perfect!
So I basically just need to make a knock-off of an Improved Ring of Swimming, except with +10 to spellcraft instead of swimming.
Then I enchant some masterwork toolkit to have the 25% crafting time reduction (I can make the argument that I'm not asking for the other abilities of the Forgehammer, to make it a better sell to the DM).
End result - I can now craft things in ~37% on the original time. The magic item factory is now 3 times faster! And an extra +5 to my spellcraft rolls to boot! Not really. You are still limited to 1 magic item/day so almost certainly your speed gain will be smaller.
Note that the hammer works only for weapon and armor so it does nothing for Woundros items, staves, rings, etc.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Firebug wrote: Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote: @Firebug: Those give Spellcraft bonuses, but they don't increase Crafting speed.
Unless you're suggesting that the "+5 for double speed" modifier can be stacked multiple times with itself, anything past the first +5 Spellcraft is pointless for this topic.
The majority of the OP was about creating a specific new item for +5 to spellcraft so... essentially, I linked the Armillary Amulet and fell down the rabbit hole.
Unless you are adding Cooperative Crafting (say, via Valet familiar), or are looking into specific class features (Forgemaster, Arcane Builder discovery, Dwarf Wizard FCB), there really isn't anything to otherwise increase your crafting speed. You might as well make an item to create a greater demiplane with timeless/flowing time or something. I would definitely endorse getting a Valet familiar. I turned my Medium into a speedy crafter with a single level dip into Bloodrager by taking a bloodline familiar with the Valet archetype instead of the 1st level Bloodrager power. The benefits of the Valet familiar do not require you to advance the familiar beyond 1st level -- just keep the familiar out of combat as the only combat relevant abilities that it grants your PC function up to a mile away.
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So there were some old homunculous variants that were adapted for Pathfinder from Ebberon called dedicated wrights which are fits the bill for what you likely want if allowed in your campaign
Dedicated Wright
Already noted are the valet Familiar and cooperative crafting
I would also point out Demi-planes with the time increased trait
And the recent addition of This
allowing both of these:
Extra-Dimensional
Benefit(s) the building exists on a plane of its own.
Create 190 magic (19,000 gp); Time 1 day
This building is in its own demi-plane. The entrance to the building must clearly be a doorway or archway, and the entrance must not be accessible from any other direction (for example, the doorway to the demi-plane could be the front door to a large blue box but couldn’t be the archway at one end of an alley). Passing through the door transports any creature into the demiplane, which follows the rules of the lesser create demiplane spell. More powerful demiplanes, using create demiplane (217 magic (21,700 gp)) and greater create demiplane (241 magic (24,100 gp) may be constructed.
Spell
Like rooms, buildings may have a spell augmentation.
This costs twice as much as a room augmentation of the same spell, but a building may only have a single spell augmentation applied to it. This limitation does not prevent all rooms in the building being given the same spell augmentations. Anyone inside the building is affected by the spell augmentation when they enter the building, with spell resistance and any saving throws being attempted once when the creature first enters. The effect ends immediately when a creature leaves the building
Depending on how much you want to spend on set up and how your GM rules on your decisions you should be able to sell them on the idea of multiple crafters working at the same time with solid bonuses and able to churn out at least 24k worth of equipment per 2 wright team in a 24 hour period while you are adventuring
1k base per 8 hour worktime x3 since they work nonstop x2 increased DC
x2 cooperative crafting x2 (at least)for planar timeflow shenanigans
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Screaminjim wrote: 1k base per 8 hour worktime x3 since they work nonstop x2 increased DC
x2 cooperative crafting x2 (at least)for planar timeflow shenanigans
Bolded to direct my question better, I was under the impression there was a limitation of only 8 hours a day toward crafting magic items. Accelerating progress within that time was permissible with a +5 DC but no more than double the rate.
Crafting Magic Items wrote: The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. Here is the reference for my understanding, once again bolded for ease.
Thedmstrikes wrote: Screaminjim wrote: 1k base per 8 hour worktime x3 since they work nonstop x2 increased DC
x2 cooperative crafting x2 (at least)for planar timeflow shenanigans
Bolded to direct my question better, I was under the impression there was a limitation of only 8 hours a day toward crafting magic items. Accelerating progress within that time was permissible with a +5 DC but no more than double the rate.
Crafting Magic Items wrote: The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. Here is the reference for my understanding, once again bolded for ease. I can not find a reference specifically for the wright allowing more than it allows for a caster that doesn't have to sleep I was basing my 3x multiplier on the fact that they work continuously with no need for rest of any sort similar to an Unseen-Crafter
The Unseen Crafter can take 10 on Craft checks and can be assigned to work more quickly, as per the Craft rules. It also does not tire, allowing it work for 24 hours per day, tripling the rate of work However since although they can repair anything that falls under their assigned craft skill they dont actually get the ability to MAKE magic items we are lacking a RAW precedent. Run it by your GM and see where they stand with it
Screaminjim wrote: Thedmstrikes wrote: Screaminjim wrote: 1k base per 8 hour worktime x3 since they work nonstop x2 increased DC
x2 cooperative crafting x2 (at least)for planar timeflow shenanigans
Bolded to direct my question better, I was under the impression there was a limitation of only 8 hours a day toward crafting magic items. Accelerating progress within that time was permissible with a +5 DC but no more than double the rate.
Crafting Magic Items wrote: The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. Here is the reference for my understanding, once again bolded for ease. I can not find a reference specifically for the wright allowing more than it allows for a caster that doesn't have to sleep I was basing my 3x multiplier on the fact that they work continuously with no need for rest of any sort similar to an Unseen-Crafter
The Unseen Crafter can take 10 on Craft checks and can be assigned to work more quickly, as per the Craft rules. It also does not tire, allowing it work for 24 hours per day, tripling the rate of work However since although they can repair anything that falls under their assigned craft skill they dont actually get the ability to MAKE magic items we are lacking a RAW precedent. Run it by your GM and see where they stand with it I am not quibbling, I actually had to look this up as I never heard of it. As it is from an Eberron source, that explains why I never heard of it. All that said, it is a spell and restricts the creation to a single item. This is where they break the norm with a special rule and hide it inside a spell.
Thedmstrikes wrote: Screaminjim wrote: Thedmstrikes wrote: Screaminjim wrote: 1k base per 8 hour worktime x3 since they work nonstop x2 increased DC
x2 cooperative crafting x2 (at least)for planar timeflow shenanigans
Bolded to direct my question better, I was under the impression there was a limitation of only 8 hours a day toward crafting magic items. Accelerating progress within that time was permissible with a +5 DC but no more than double the rate.
Crafting Magic Items wrote: The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. Here is the reference for my understanding, once again bolded for ease. I can not find a reference specifically for the wright allowing more than it allows for a caster that doesn't have to sleep I was basing my 3x multiplier on the fact that they work continuously with no need for rest of any sort similar to an Unseen-Crafter
The Unseen Crafter can take 10 on Craft checks and can be assigned to work more quickly, as per the Craft rules. It also does not tire, allowing it work for 24 hours per day, tripling the rate of work However since although they can repair anything that falls under their assigned craft skill they dont actually get the ability to MAKE magic items we are lacking a RAW precedent. Run it by your GM and see where they stand with it I am not quibbling, I actually had to look this up as I never heard of it. As it is from an Eberron source, that explains why I never heard of it. All that said, it is a spell and restricts the creation to a single item. This is where they break the norm with a special rule and hide it inside a spell. Absolutely agree with you personally I feel that the idea that you cant work more than the 8 hours is poorly thought through. I like reasons why I cant do it. I have yet to find one so in my mind I go with: even if I dont need to sleep eat use the bathroom etc I can only handle concentrating on this type of task for so long without a break. This IMO wouldnt apply to a construct. It clearly is not a function of the magic item itself only 'absorbing' so much magic at a time since the other rules are in place to allow increased productivity as listed above and so I personally have concluded (rightly or wrongly) if it isnt the item restricting how long it takes it must be the abilities of the crafter. The only reason I can come up with is 'workplace burnout' Which shouldnt apply to what I view as a magical robot whose literal lifes purpose is to do exactly this. This said it becomes a matter of convincing the rest of the table (and ultimately the GM) that this should be the case
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Dedicated Wright is an Eberron creature, so it was created for the 3.5 edition of the game, where:
- it was not possible to craft magic items without the prerequisite spells;
- crafting magic items had a XP cost.
Pathfinder has removed those two requirements and the major balancing thing is the time spent crafting. If you make that time cost almost irrelevant the balance of the game change noticeably.
If the master takes the feat Cooperative Crafting he can make several Dedicated Wright and have them work together for a higher crafting speed.
With 2 craft skills at 1 and skill focus in one of them, they can even make simple mundane items to make a bit of cash.
Good for Eberron where you have a magical industrial age, not so good for the standard fantasy world.
If you want something even more broken, you can have them make magical capital (Ultimate campaign rules) and make magic items for 1/4 of the purchase price. That way you can sell magic items at half price and get a profit.
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Screaminjim wrote: So there were some old homunculous variants that were adapted for Pathfinder from Ebberon called dedicated wrights which are fits the bill for what you likely want if allowed in your campaign
Dedicated Wright
Your link is for a conversion. The original Eberron one is Dedicated Wright.
Both can only work on a single item. They count as you for creation, so they should also count for what happens when you start another item. Meaning you can't effectively start another until the last one is done.
This translates to you instructing the Dedicated Wright for 1 hour followed by 7 hours of cooperative crafting, followed by 16 hours of the Dedicated Wright crafting. So that first day you get 30 hours worth of crafting. The later days, you don't need to instruct, so you get 32 hours of crafting. Since you can fast craft to get 2000 gp in 8 hours, that gives you 7500 gp worth of a magic item that first day, and 8000 gp worth of a magic item for each succeeding day.
An Extra-Dimensional building at the 24,100 gp price lets you get the fast-time demiplane. [The cheaper ones dont.] With fast time, you get two days in the demiplane for one plane on the material plane. This can then double your productivity.
Screaminjim wrote: The Unseen Crafter can take 10 on Craft checks and can be assigned to work more quickly, as per the Craft rules. It also does not tire, allowing it work for 24 hours per day, tripling the rate of work However since although they can repair anything that falls under their assigned craft skill they dont actually get the ability to MAKE magic items we are lacking a RAW precedent. Run it by your GM and see where they stand with it Unseen Crafter maks an unseen servant that can do Craft(X) for 8 hours, not 1 day/level. It cannot make magic items, as it does not have the crafting feat. It cannot save time, since you need the feet Cooperative Crafting to do that.
The Conversion to PF you found states:
Quote: This site is dedicated to the home-brew conversion of the entire Eberron campaign The conversion does not change the base Eberron spell's limitation preventing its use on crafting magic items.
/cevah
Screaminjim wrote:
And the recent addition of This
allowing both of these:
Extra-Dimensional
Benefit(s) the building exists on a plane of its own.
Create 190 magic (19,000 gp); Time 1 day
This building is in its own demi-plane. The entrance to the building must clearly be a doorway or archway, and the entrance must not be accessible from any other direction (for example, the doorway to the demi-plane could be the front door to a large blue box but couldn’t be the archway at one end of an alley). Passing through the door transports any creature into the demiplane, which follows the rules of the lesser create demiplane spell. More powerful demiplanes, using create demiplane (217 magic (21,700 gp)) and greater create demiplane (241 magic (24,100 gp) may be constructed.
Sorry, both for the mild necromancy and the derailing, but what book is this from please? I must have missed it, and it is relevant to my interests, as they say.
RoseCrown wrote: Screaminjim wrote:
And the recent addition of This
allowing both of these:
Extra-Dimensional
Benefit(s) the building exists on a plane of its own.
Create 190 magic (19,000 gp); Time 1 day
This building is in its own demi-plane. The entrance to the building must clearly be a doorway or archway, and the entrance must not be accessible from any other direction (for example, the doorway to the demi-plane could be the front door to a large blue box but couldn’t be the archway at one end of an alley). Passing through the door transports any creature into the demiplane, which follows the rules of the lesser create demiplane spell. More powerful demiplanes, using create demiplane (217 magic (21,700 gp)) and greater create demiplane (241 magic (24,100 gp) may be constructed.
Sorry, both for the mild necromancy and the derailing, but what book is this from please? I must have missed it, and it is relevant to my interests, as they say. It appears to be from a 3pp supplement, but I can't determine what one.
willuwontu wrote:
It appears to be from a 3pp supplement, but I can't determine what one.
Looking through the page a lot I found one copywrite notice for Legendary Games' Ultimate Strongholds which apparently has 3p rules expansions for both downtime and kingdom building. Considering that the page linked has a rather nonsensical mixture of downtime resources and Build Points based construction that seems like a very poorly done copy-paste from such a source.
If you wanted to do the whole demiplane thing without using 3rd party sources you'd naturally be looking at the spells those buildings refer to. The costs should be fairly close considering that the description is very close to what the spells state. Also it won't take any construction time because the creator of the demiplane is allowed to design the appearance of the plane within reason (no idea why people think you can make a plane of gold and diamonds, the spells clearly state what materials are allowed).
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RoseCrown wrote: Screaminjim wrote:
And the recent addition of This
allowing both of these:
Extra-Dimensional
Benefit(s) the building exists on a plane of its own.
Create 190 magic (19,000 gp); Time 1 day
This building is in its own demi-plane. The entrance to the building must clearly be a doorway or archway, and the entrance must not be accessible from any other direction (for example, the doorway to the demi-plane could be the front door to a large blue box but couldn’t be the archway at one end of an alley). Passing through the door transports any creature into the demiplane, which follows the rules of the lesser create demiplane spell. More powerful demiplanes, using create demiplane (217 magic (21,700 gp)) and greater create demiplane (241 magic (24,100 gp) may be constructed.
Sorry, both for the mild necromancy and the derailing, but what book is this from please? I must have missed it, and it is relevant to my interests, as they say. Working together with your GM you can make it with the normal rules, craft wondrous items, create demiplane and a lot of GP.
You "only" need to make a room or building that is a wondrous item and a demiplane, possibly with the time feature for faster crafting.
Making a magic item that requires Create Demiplane, Greater as a prerequisite has a DC of 27 (22+5 for lacking the spell). Most spellcasters can make it when they have the needed money.
For the price: 17*9*2,000/2 (the spell duration is 1 day/level)= 153,000.
As the item has a fixed position I will not apply the increased cost for it not taking up a body slot.
The production cost will be 71,500 gp plus the building you will enchant.
Very reasonable for the effect.
Personally, I would prefer something based on Mage's magnificent mansion, as it has tons of nice features, but curiously the cost will be higher, even if it is a lower-level spell.
CL 13*7*2,000= 182,000, 364,000 gp for a portable version (as an example, if it has the form of a miniature door that will conjure the door to the Magnificent mansion).
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ADND 2nd ed Spelljammer has the Hold of Holding. This was a door knocker that gave access to an extra-dimensional space.
/cevah
I just remembered another option, similar to making intelligent constructs that can take Master Craftsman. Because it is also making a servitor and then having it take Master Craftsman.
Blast Shadows are undead that can be created using Create Undead by a level 14+ spellcaster. There is no limit on the number of them that can be controlled, the duration that they can be controlled, or the HD that can be controlled. Their only limitation is time, wealth (in onyx), and bodies capable of fine manipulation that have been killed with spells that deal Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire damage.
Depending upon version, they either have 8 HD or 10 HD. Both of those are sufficient to be able to retrain to gain the Master Craftsman, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Cooperative Crafting feats. The 10 HD version could even take something like Gunsmithing as their 5th feat and churn out valuable goods quite quickly when not engaged in magic item crafting.
Definitely one of the more finicky forms of undead to make, since one would typically have to actively kill creatures to do it instead of being able to recycle ones that have already died, but it doesn't require a humanoid body, so animals and other creatures with the necessary capacity to manipulate objects could also be used.
Granted, a contract to execute condemned prisoners and dispose of their bodies could create a source of suitable bodies and no one really cares about bandit problems suddenly vanishing overnight. So there would be ways and means.
So, yeah, that's 400-500 gp for the Blast Shadow itself, another 400-500 per feat to retrain (so 400 * 4 or 500 * 5), another 400-500 per skill rank to retrain (5 of them required for Master Craftsman) and then the cost of the body itself.
So either 4000 gp for the 8 HD version or 5500 gp for the 10 HD version (5000 gp without retraining a 5th feat for Gunsmithing). So between about 1/2 and 2/3 of the cost of making a Soulbound Mannequin before factoring in the cost of acquiring the body in the first place.
Coidzor wrote: I just remembered another option, similar to making intelligent constructs that can take Master Craftsman. Because it is also making a servitor and then having it take Master Craftsman.
Blast Shadows are undead that can be created using Create Undead by a level 14+ spellcaster. There is no limit on the number of them that can be controlled, the duration that they can be controlled, or the HD that can be controlled. Their only limitation is time, wealth (in onyx), and bodies capable of fine manipulation that have been killed with spells that deal Acid, Cold, Electricity, or Fire damage.
Depending upon version, they either have 8 HD or 10 HD. Both of those are sufficient to be able to retrain to gain the Master Craftsman, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and Cooperative Crafting feats. The 10 HD version could even take something like Gunsmithing as their 5th feat and churn out valuable goods quite quickly when not engaged in magic item crafting.
Definitely one of the more finicky forms of undead to make, since one would typically have to actively kill creatures to do it instead of being able to recycle ones that have already died, but it doesn't require a humanoid body, so animals and other creatures with the necessary capacity to manipulate objects could also be used.
Granted, a contract to execute condemned prisoners and dispose of their bodies could create a source of suitable bodies and no one really cares about bandit problems suddenly vanishing overnight. So there would be ways and means.
So, yeah, that's 400-500 gp for the Blast Shadow itself, another 400-500 per feat to retrain (so 400 * 4 or 500 * 5), another 400-500 per skill rank to retrain (5 of them required for Master Craftsman) and then the cost of the body itself.
So either 4000 gp for the 8 HD version or 5500 gp for the 10 HD version...
Blast shadows while loyal to their creator - are not controlled by him.
gm is perfectly fine with NPCing them into murdering lot who don't attack you but might be against being your factory workers. or demanding payment.
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