Queries for The All-Seeing Orb


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Silver Crusade

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Wolfism wrote:

If there's no dirty trick in this edition how does it handle throwing dirt in someone's eye or other non standard ways of messing with enemies?

That's a fairly standard thing creative players ask about. It's a pretty big part of keeping the game open ended.

There does not appear to be any at this moment.

(for comparison though, Dirty Trick wasn't introduced into Pathfinder till the APG)

Silver Crusade

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Pan, definitely not a Kitsune wrote:

Heh.

I'd be very surprised, but is there anything resembling Leadership?

Nada.


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Wolfism wrote:

If there's no dirty trick in this edition how does it handle throwing dirt in someone's eye or other non standard ways of messing with enemies?

That's a fairly standard thing creative players ask about. It's a pretty big part of keeping the game open ended.

It's not called out specifically but it could just be played out as a deception roll to distract the enemy, which afaik is part of the rules.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Wolfism wrote:

If there's no dirty trick in this edition how does it handle throwing dirt in someone's eye or other non standard ways of messing with enemies?

That's a fairly standard thing creative players ask about. It's a pretty big part of keeping the game open ended.

You've got Feint, using the Deception skill. That's probably the closest. There's also Shove, Trip, and Disarm.

Silver Crusade

Vlorax wrote:
Wolfism wrote:

If there's no dirty trick in this edition how does it handle throwing dirt in someone's eye or other non standard ways of messing with enemies?

That's a fairly standard thing creative players ask about. It's a pretty big part of keeping the game open ended.

It's not called out specifically but it could just be played out as a deception roll to distract the enemy, which afaik is part of the rules.

That's one use yeah, but the neat thing with Dirty Trick is all the different stuff you could do. Throw dirt to blind, groin shot, pull down their pants to slow or trip em, stuff like that.


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Rysky wrote:
Vlorax wrote:
Wolfism wrote:

If there's no dirty trick in this edition how does it handle throwing dirt in someone's eye or other non standard ways of messing with enemies?

That's a fairly standard thing creative players ask about. It's a pretty big part of keeping the game open ended.

It's not called out specifically but it could just be played out as a deception roll to distract the enemy, which afaik is part of the rules.
That's one use yeah, but the neat thing with Dirty Trick is all the different stuff you could do. Throw dirt to blind, groin shot, pull down their pants to slow or trip em, stuff like that.

Throwing dirt or other stuff, Feint (AC penalty to follow-ups until they "clear their eyes" at the start of their turn)

Groin shot, Demoralize (-1 to everything for a round, may want to run away from you quickly)

Pants, trip (prone)

I mean they aren't perfect matches, but this makes me realize how many different flavors there are for maneuvers. XD

Proper Dirty Trick could be interesting though.


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Do champions, like clerics, get auto advancing proficiency in their deity's favored weapon, or are Irorian Paladins stuck on trained for unarmed their whole career?

Silver Crusade

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Do champions, like clerics, get auto advancing proficiency in their deity's favored weapon, or are Irorian Paladins stuck on trained for unarmed their whole career?

They get a damage boost if it’s simple and access to it, but their proficiencies are simple and martial. So maybe???


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Rysky wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Do champions, like clerics, get auto advancing proficiency in their deity's favored weapon, or are Irorian Paladins stuck on trained for unarmed their whole career?
They get a damage boost if it’s simple and access to it, but their proficiencies are simple and martial. So maybe???

People are passing around a proficiency chart that suggests everybody other than fighters(legendary); monks, barbarians, mutagenist alchemists (master); and druids (expert) tops out at trained in unarmed. So the Irorian Paladin doesn't seem to work how I wanted it to, alas.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I think there is some confusion here caused by the fact that Monk lists "trained in simple weapons" and "trained in unarmed" separately.

I'll need to take a closer look at the book to be sure - I'm at work right now - but are we sure that isn't just for clarity when later levels start giving them upgrades to unarmed but not to simple weapons?

I was under the impression that unarmed strikes are simple weapons.


Think might be seperate now.


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I've seen it confirmed that unarmed strikes are printed in a separate table in the weapons chapter in the final CRB. They are no longer a simple weapon, and weapons things don't work with them unless they explicitly say they do.


The sorcerer arcane evolution feat what benfits are their for writing down spells in book other than free signature spell and skill.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I did not play 1st Ed Pathfinder but I have D&D. So reading through the Familiar it looks like there is no way outside of a scry spell you see what is around it?


Is there a Handy Haversack or equivalent in PF2?


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Don't have time to edit nicely, but SUPER Relevant text to Armor/trained/etc.

this thread over here

Michael Sayre wrote:
Kerobelis wrote:
rooneg wrote:


Yes, but in 5e you don't get into this position where you have multiple possible armor types for a given character that end up with the same AC/Stealth Disadvantage result. If you're a character with DEX 14 who wants to wear medium armor you either pick a Breastplate if you care about Stealth or Half Plate if you don't. There's no reason (other than money) to ever wear Scale or a Chain Shirt. If you're a heavy armor character you never have a reason to prefer Splint to Plate. If you have a flavor preference for Splint you will always end up with a lower AC.

I don't have the 2e PF book yet, so you are saying every armor choice could be an optimal choice?

Not who you're responding to, but yes, that's very much the case. Any of the classes that get armor proficiency upgrades will see those upgrades apply to all the lower armor categories; for example, the champion's Legendary Armor upgrade applies to heavy, medium, light, and even unarmored defense, so if your champion multiclassed e.g. monk or rogue and went Dex heavy, then light or unarmored can be just as optimal for them as heavy armor would be on a low-Dex, high-STR build. Since armors all have a Strength rating that eliminates armor check penalties, there's even some interesting middle ground where one Champion with a 14 STR who prioritized CHA over DEX might choose to wear chainmail because the flexible quality means that the check penalty doesn't apply to Acrobatics or Athletics and thus isn't a concern, while another champion with a 14 STR who prioritized DEX over CHA and multiclassed rogue will probably want to stick with scale mail so that their Strength bonus eliminates the check penalty entirely and allows them to make Thievery checks in armor unhindered.

There will probably always be an optimal armor choice for your character, but there will never be one armor that is universally the best for a given class or category.


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Rysky wrote:
Wolfism wrote:

If there's no dirty trick in this edition how does it handle throwing dirt in someone's eye or other non standard ways of messing with enemies?

That's a fairly standard thing creative players ask about. It's a pretty big part of keeping the game open ended.

There does not appear to be any at this moment.

(for comparison though, Dirty Trick wasn't introduced into Pathfinder till the APG)

The Rogue's Debilations could count as dirty tricks. So it's not there as a maneuver now but rogue features (which fits I think).


Can a high level character summon a Phoenix, can they still turn into a Phoenix with monstrosity form?


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Aashua wrote:
Can a high level character summon a Phoenix, can they still turn into a Phoenix with monstrosity form?

Almost certainly not on the summoning front just because of rarity. The playtest Phoenix was rare and summoning spells only work on things that are common. I doubt the final Bestiary made it common.

The Playtest version also doesn't have any traits that obviously match up with the final summoning spells unless Summon Animal works on "beast" trait as well as "animal."

Silver Crusade

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Aashua wrote:
Can a high level character summon a Phoenix, can they still turn into a Phoenix with monstrosity form?

No and yes.

There’s not a Summon Beast spell atm, and Summon spells can only summon Common creatures (I missed this earlier).


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Blave wrote:
Can high strength get rid off the complete armor check penalty of those types of armor? And can it get rid of the complete speed penalty on heavy armor?
Yes, and no. Need Mitral for that, which not only reduces the speed penatly but lowers the Strength requirement as well.
By previous reveals, being a Dwarf and taking the right Ancestry Feat also seems to work for this.

I assume if Dwarves are still uniquely slow, negating speed penalties doesn't actually negate the "Dwarven speed penalty".

So if Elves are still faster than normal, they would still have fastest movement in Heavy armor even without Mithril or Elf movement Feats.

BTW, anybody had a glance at Environment rules for Fog/Smoke, in terms of distances and how it might interact with Perception tiers?


Are there any bardic performances that are suitable for a bard that doesn't buff? Since party-wide bonuses are generally all of the same type I feel it's important for a bard to be able to come into a group that already has a buff cleric and simply decide to do something else with their cantrips.

Liberty's Edge

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Quandary wrote:

I assume if Dwarves are still uniquely slow, negating speed penalties doesn't actually negate the "Dwarven speed penalty".

So if Elves are still faster than normal, they would still have fastest movement in Heavy armor even without Mithril or Elf movement Feats.

That's all correct by my understanding. Still makes Dwarves in Full Plate as fast as non-Dwarves in non-Mithral Full Plate. Which is good to have as a thing.

Liberty's Edge

Arachnofiend wrote:
Are there any bardic performances that are suitable for a bard that doesn't buff? Since party-wide bonuses are generally all of the same type I feel it's important for a bard to be able to come into a group that already has a buff cleric and simply decide to do something else with their cantrips.

Even in the playtest there was Dirge of Doom. That's a nasty debuff on the enemy rather than a buff on the party. I doubt it's gone away.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Are there any bardic performances that are suitable for a bard that doesn't buff? Since party-wide bonuses are generally all of the same type I feel it's important for a bard to be able to come into a group that already has a buff cleric and simply decide to do something else with their cantrips.
Even in the playtest there was Dirge of Doom. That's a nasty debuff on the enemy rather than a buff on the party. I doubt it's gone away.

Dirge of doom hasn't gone anywhere. There are also some more utility-focused compositions now. A Bard should be able to find a niche pretty easily in a party that already has buffing handled.


How useful is piercing damage? In 1e it was better underwater (if that ever came up) and some feats keyed off of it, but bludgeoning and slashing damage was more likely to be good against monsters because common enemies had DR towards them (Zombies, Skeletons, and Liches all come to mind) and almost none of the ones I ever encountered as DR/piercing. Are there any relatively common monsters with weakness to piercing (or with resistance to not-piercing)? Or cool piercing-themed feats?

EDIT: typos


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Quandary wrote:

I assume if Dwarves are still uniquely slow, negating speed penalties doesn't actually negate the "Dwarven speed penalty".

So if Elves are still faster than normal, they would still have fastest movement in Heavy armor even without Mithril or Elf movement Feats.
That's all correct by my understanding. Still makes Dwarves in Full Plate as fast as non-Dwarves in non-Mithral Full Plate. Which is good to have as a thing.

Well, this is Dwarves who spent Ancestry Feat on this, so comparision should reasonably be vs Elf with movement/speed Ancestry Feat, right? I am happy with overall rules for Armor and Dwarven ability has reasonably good functionality within that paradigm, I guess I just still can't get on board with Dwarves being so uniquely slow when that wasn't deemed acceptable for "Small" Races, or why those (and Elves') 'normal'/fast speed shouldn't be specific Heritage choice at least, with stuff like Elf movement Feats limited to Light armor. /shrug


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Are there any bardic performances that are suitable for a bard that doesn't buff? Since party-wide bonuses are generally all of the same type I feel it's important for a bard to be able to come into a group that already has a buff cleric and simply decide to do something else with their cantrips.
Even in the playtest there was Dirge of Doom. That's a nasty debuff on the enemy rather than a buff on the party. I doubt it's gone away.

Isn't Dirge of Doom a higher level ability? I might be misremembering but I thought in the playtest a Bard didn't have any level 1 songs that weren't buffs.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Are there any bardic performances that are suitable for a bard that doesn't buff? Since party-wide bonuses are generally all of the same type I feel it's important for a bard to be able to come into a group that already has a buff cleric and simply decide to do something else with their cantrips.
Even in the playtest there was Dirge of Doom. That's a nasty debuff on the enemy rather than a buff on the party. I doubt it's gone away.
Isn't Dirge of Doom a higher level ability? I might be misremembering but I thought in the playtest a Bard didn't have any level 1 songs that weren't buffs.

They only had one level 1 song at all. Skills came in at 2 or 4, Dirge was 6, speed was 4 or 6.


Rysky wrote:
Aashua wrote:
Can a high level character summon a Phoenix, can they still turn into a Phoenix with monstrosity form?

No and yes.

There’s not a Summon Beast spell atm, and Summon spells can only summon Common creatures (I missed this earlier).

I thought one of the 10th level spells for Primal or Occult mentioned Summon Phoenix?


What level spell and what how many options in the bestiary are there for Summon Dragon? And how does jealous hex for the hag-blooded sorcerer work?


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Rysky wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Do champions, like clerics, get auto advancing proficiency in their deity's favored weapon, or are Irorian Paladins stuck on trained for unarmed their whole career?
They get a damage boost if it’s simple and access to it, but their proficiencies are simple and martial. So maybe???
People are passing around a proficiency chart that suggests everybody other than fighters(legendary); monks, barbarians, mutagenist alchemists (master); and druids (expert) tops out at trained in unarmed. So the Irorian Paladin doesn't seem to work how I wanted it to, alas.

Why do you say alchemists have master? The chart and their class page shows them as getting expert.


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citricking wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Rysky wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Do champions, like clerics, get auto advancing proficiency in their deity's favored weapon, or are Irorian Paladins stuck on trained for unarmed their whole career?
They get a damage boost if it’s simple and access to it, but their proficiencies are simple and martial. So maybe???
People are passing around a proficiency chart that suggests everybody other than fighters(legendary); monks, barbarians, mutagenist alchemists (master); and druids (expert) tops out at trained in unarmed. So the Irorian Paladin doesn't seem to work how I wanted it to, alas.
Why do you say alchemists have master? The chart and their class page shows them as getting expert.

Someone said the mutagen specialty, not the class, gets it. Either they’re wrong or it’s in their speciality section.


Xenocrat wrote:
citricking wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Rysky wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Do champions, like clerics, get auto advancing proficiency in their deity's favored weapon, or are Irorian Paladins stuck on trained for unarmed their whole career?
They get a damage boost if it’s simple and access to it, but their proficiencies are simple and martial. So maybe???
People are passing around a proficiency chart that suggests everybody other than fighters(legendary); monks, barbarians, mutagenist alchemists (master); and druids (expert) tops out at trained in unarmed. So the Irorian Paladin doesn't seem to work how I wanted it to, alas.
Why do you say alchemists have master? The chart and their class page shows them as getting expert.
Someone said the mutagen specialty, not the class, gets it. Either they’re wrong or it’s in their speciality section.

It's not in the specialty section…


Xenocrat wrote:
citricking wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Rysky wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Do champions, like clerics, get auto advancing proficiency in their deity's favored weapon, or are Irorian Paladins stuck on trained for unarmed their whole career?
They get a damage boost if it’s simple and access to it, but their proficiencies are simple and martial. So maybe???
People are passing around a proficiency chart that suggests everybody other than fighters(legendary); monks, barbarians, mutagenist alchemists (master); and druids (expert) tops out at trained in unarmed. So the Irorian Paladin doesn't seem to work how I wanted it to, alas.
Why do you say alchemists have master? The chart and their class page shows them as getting expert.
Someone said the mutagen specialty, not the class, gets it. Either they’re wrong or it’s in their speciality section.

They're wrong, Alchemist only gets Expert, at lvl 7. at 13 they get wep specialization and at lvl 17 your class DC goes to master but nothing relating to weapons.


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Seems kind of weak then for mutagenists.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

What the mutagenist gets that is relevant is unarmed attack proficiency staying equal to simple weapon proficiency at all levels -- so their class gives them expert proficiency at 7th level.

Liberty's Edge

Also, Mutagens themselves probably grant bonuses worth noting. They certainly did in the playtest and I've seen statements that imply they've gotten better inasmuch as their bonuses outpace those of other equipment.


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mrspaghetti wrote:
Is there a Handy Haversack or equivalent in PF2?

Well I certainly hope so.

Liberty's Edge

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There is indeed a text in the Equipment section stating that Unarmed attacks are not Simple weapons and that anything applying to simple weapons does not apply to unarmed attacks unless it explicitly says so. Which is not the case for all the increases in weapon proficiencies that are described in the Class chapter.

Because the Class chapter is before the Equipment chapter, I think the text in the latter was for future proofing and inadvertently happen to do some frustrating present proofing too.

Result is that in current RAW, Cleric or Champion of Irori indeed gets better at all Simple and Martial weapons but not at their deity's favored weapon. Which is likely an oversight.

Depending on the devs' intent, I think either all increasing proficiencies in Simple weapons will be errataed as applying to Unarmed attacks or, at the very least, those of the Cleric and the Champion will also apply to their deity's favored weapon.

I will also apply the effect of the Cleric feat Deadly Simplicity to Unarmed attacks for Champions.


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This actually brings up a related question - how does the proficiency scaling for warpriests and champions handle deities with exotic weapons? I don't think this is an issue in core because they made the starknife and spiked chain into martial weapons but it's going to be an issue very quickly once we get rules for Achaekek in the first world guide.


Is soothe still in the game? And if yes, what does it do that heal can't?

EDIT: Also, sorcerers do not get a class feat at first level, correct? (Not counting being human if that's still a thing.)

Silver Crusade

bomberbros wrote:
What level spell and what how many options in the bestiary are there for Summon Dragon? And how does jealous hex for the hag-blooded sorcerer work?

5th, atm it seems to be limited to Adult and younger Chromatics Dragons (Linnorms are all Uncommon)

Jealous Hex gives the target a different penalty depending on their highest stat and how their Save goes. Pretty neat debuff.

Silver Crusade

Malckuss76 wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Aashua wrote:
Can a high level character summon a Phoenix, can they still turn into a Phoenix with monstrosity form?

No and yes.

There’s not a Summon Beast spell atm, and Summon spells can only summon Common creatures (I missed this earlier).

I thought one of the 10th level spells for Primal or Occult mentioned Summon Phoenix?

Maybe in the Playtest but I'm not seeing it in the final.

Silver Crusade

Arachnofiend wrote:
This actually brings up a related question - how does the proficiency scaling for warpriests and champions handle deities with exotic weapons? I don't think this is an issue in core because they made the starknife and spiked chain into martial weapons but it's going to be an issue very quickly once we get rules for Achaekek in the first world guide.

Warpriests get Expert at 7th level with their Deity's Favored Weapon, Champion's do not get anything Proficiency wise.

For Advanced Weapons only the Fighter currently gets Proficiency with those, outside of Ancestry.

(Also the Starknife was always Martial).

Silver Crusade

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Blave wrote:

Is soothe still in the game? And if yes, what does it do that heal can't?

EDIT: Also, sorcerers do not get a class feat at first level, correct? (Not counting being human if that's still a thing.)

Ranged healing that takes less Actions, also give a buff vs mental effects.

They do not.

Silver Crusade

Handy Haversack of Hillarity wrote:
mrspaghetti wrote:
Is there a Handy Haversack or equivalent in PF2?
Well I certainly hope so.

Just the Bag of Holding so far.


Rysky wrote:
Blave wrote:
Is soothe still in the game? And if yes, what does it do that heal can't?
Ranged healing that takes less Actions, also give a buff vs mental effects.

Thanks for the answers!

But... less actions? Ranged Heal is two actions, right? Is Soothe a single acion spell?

Silver Crusade

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Blave wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Blave wrote:
Is soothe still in the game? And if yes, what does it do that heal can't?
Ranged healing that takes less Actions, also give a buff vs mental effects.

Thanks for the answers!

But... less actions? Ranged Heal is two actions, right? Is Soothe a single acion spell?

*rereads*

Crap, no, what I get for reading early in the morning, sorry. It's two actions, so only 2 points behind Heal at the same Action cost but you get that +2 vs mental effects.

Liberty's Edge

What aligments do Nethys, Iomedae and Sarenrae allow for their followers?

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