Larger weapons still confuse me... if I am a dwarf and wielding a maul axe which is light, can I get a large one to wield as a normal weapon or two hands? And if so, would the -2 penalty apply?
I just really want to use a 1 handed B+S weapon, and the maulaxe is the only one i know of. And as a tank, i need to do enough damage to stay relevant, so i was thinking if a larger weapon would bump it up from d6 to d8 thats a little better, especially on a x3 weapon...
i was thinking if a larger weapon would bump it up from d6 to d8 thats a little better, especially on a x3 weapon...
Emphasise on "little". Going from 1d6 to 1d8 is +1 average damage. Meanwhile, you suffer a -2 penalty for every size category the weapon is "off". As +1 attack roll is about equivalent to +2 damage (although in practice, it's usually a bit loless than that, say around a 1:1.7 ratio), that's obviously a very bad trade.
Why do you need a one-handed weapon? The only difference to a light weapon is the ability to two-hand it for 1.5xStr and 3:1 Power Attack ratio, but you seem to not want to two-hand a weapon.
I'm planning on keeping my Ac up decently with a shield, I always prefered the sword(axe) and board flavor of a paladin. However, I'm not against a 2 handed weapon, I'm against a non B/S weapon. I want my weapon to have both bludgeon and slashing. If you know of a two handed version of one, I would definitely consider it.
The Paladin in question is a Stonelord iirc, so proficiency with dwarven weapons is not an issue.
Why the "B or S" fixation though ? As the rarest combination, there aren't any worthwhile alternatives, as the precious few that exist aren't any better for this character.
Anyway, if you want a Maulaxe : go for it. Getting a Large one is very much not worth the trouble, but a normal one will work. It's not great, but it works.
If you're open to B/P weapons (or even P/S), your choices open up - including possibly up to a 2-handed weapon And a shield, if you have a couple spare feats.
I'm planning on keeping my Ac up decently with a shield, I always prefered the sword(axe) and board flavor of a paladin. However, I'm not against a 2 handed weapon, I'm against a non B/S weapon. I want my weapon to have both bludgeon and slashing. If you know of a two handed version of one, I would definitely consider it.
There are only 4 B/S weapons in the game.
Dwarven Maulaxe, Monk's Spade, Kusarigama, and Claw Blades.
None of them will match a decent polearm (e.g. nodachi) + Shield Brace.
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You're a heavy armor wearing dwarf, you could carry the usual golfbag of secondary weapons for mixed damage types. Waraxe for main, warhammer, hvy pick and a maul axe for special occasions.
or, you could just hit them with that shield you're lugging around.
If you're using a shield, why does it matter whether you're using a light or a one-handed weapon?
Monk's Spade is a "B or P or S" martial double weapon, with one side being "P or S" and the other side being "B or S".
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@OP Evilserran: Here's one way to effectively wield an outsize weapon.
Reach tactics can increase your PC's tanking ability. The added defensive power from using reach tactics typically provides much more defensive value (to both you AND TO YOUR SQUISHY ALLIES) than does a shield. This tactical combat approach uses Pathfinder Core Rules, but it's not explicitly described in any rulebook so many players don't know about this option.
okay then, so saying i am willing to ignore my want to have a B/S weapon, does pretty much everyone agree i should go two handed then? With a reach weapon?
I do like the free 5foot step concept of enlarging.... especially as a stone lord would want to avoid actually spending his move action so as to stay in stance, it gives a few options...
However i didnt think paladins got domains?
If i do decide to go reach, suggestion on a good option? And if one handed, go Dwarven waraxe?
I'm planning on keeping my Ac up decently with a shield, I always prefered the sword(axe) and board flavor of a paladin. However, I'm not against a 2 handed weapon, I'm against a non B/S weapon. I want my weapon to have both bludgeon and slashing. If you know of a two handed version of one, I would definitely consider it.
What if you just carried around a bludgeoning weapon and a slashing weapon? Until they're magic its basically no difference. And once they are magic I can't imagine what you need both for. Very few enemies have DR/slash or DR/bludgeoning.
Moving past the desire for a B/S weapon, and more the question of "what kind of weapon should my stonelord paladin use?" I once built one with a Dwarven Dorn-Dergar and the Dorn Dergar Master abd Darting Viper feats. Maybe pickup Cut from the Air and Smash from the Air. Find some way to get enlarge person and you've made an interesting area denial build.
It's actually more effective to use a whip with high dex, but that's not very Dwarven.
Are you familiar with the creating new weapons system? https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/
Making a weapon do multiple kinds of damage is 3 design points. From there you could potentially add in other features you want.
EDIT: For example if you have a martial weapon(or an exotic dwarven weapon) you gain 5 design points. You can increase the cost by 15 gold twice to gain 2 extra design points bringing us to 7.
3 design points for the B/S simultaneous damage(Note only 1 point if it can do either but not both simultaneously)
3 points to increase the damage from 1d3 to 1d8
1 point for blocking or some other feature
Or 1 point for extra damage type
3 points for increased damage
3 points for a 19-20 crit range.
Double EDIT: PFS. Disregard.
unfortunately this is for a society character,so i cannot use that system
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unfortunately this is for a society character,so i cannot use that system
Oh! That would be a good thing to mention in your initial post.
Maybe don't worry about our advice. Go with the character concept you find fun and entertaining.
There is a Paladin archetype that gets one domain, at 4th level, instead of spells. That's probably a bad deal. Much easier for Clerics and Inquisitors.
I mentioned the Swift-action enlarge ability as just one way to wield an oversized weapon without penalty.
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okay then, so saying i am willing to ignore my want to have a B/S weapon, does pretty much everyone agree i should go two handed then? With a reach weapon?
Yes, absolutely, especially for a Stonelord. Shields are pretty underpowered in Pathfinder (for martial characters at least) anyway.
Magda Luckbender is sometimes a bit overenthusiatic about reach weapons, but the basic statements are still true. Especially for dwarfs in combination with classes with martial proficiency - you don't even lose average damage, because Dwarven Giant-sticker (or Dwarven Longhammer) are 2d6 weapons, which is about as good as it gets. x3 crit stats are worse than 19-20, but not by much.
Okay i am going to switch to the longhammer then, and I will wear a boulder helmet incase i find myself pinned and unable to use my reach weapon.
If you want to maintain your ac while using a polearm you can. There are two options, unhindering shield with a buckler, or shield brace. Are they worth the feats? Depends on what you want to do.
My overall goal was to just maintain the ability to tank, while not being able to be ignored by still maintaining being a threat.
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Magda Luckbender is sometimes a bit overenthusiatic about reach weapons,
Guilty as charged! I do this because it's an effective combat approach that is nowhere described in any official Pathfinder book. Thus, it's obscure to all but experienced players. No doubt the regulars are sick of my "reach tactics" posts, but regulars are not my target audience. I've deliberately seeded "reach tactics" throughout these forums to try to spread the concept to less experienced players. My goal is to supplement this missing portion of the Pathfinder books. "Reach tactics" deserves equal status with "Sword and Board" , "Two weapon fighting", and "two handed fighting", particularly as it's mechanically equal or superior to those better-known options. Especially if one considers actual combat tactics [Youtube: Spears are Better than Swords, as demonstrated over many sparring sessions], in which historical context the spear was "the king of weapons" [Wikipedia: Qiang(spear)]. In the absence of "reach tactics" the longspear is an awful weapon, but with "reach tactics" it again becomes "king of weapons".
When I consciously started doing this five years ago the phrase "reach tactics" had no established meaning in the Pathfinder game. There was a "reach cleric" and there were "reach weapons", but there was no concise phrase to describe a non-cleric using reach weapons for area denial and improved action efficiency. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to have coined the phrase.
It seems to have worked, at least a little. People now use the phrase "reach tactics" on this board and seem to know what it means. I've also seen it used on Reddit, along with people asking what it means followed by links to my posts on this board. I've even heard the phrase spoken aloud by others in Discord. I'm also a lifelong martial artist who is proficient in the spear, so it irked me to see it so badly devalued in my favorite game. I embrace the claims of over-enthusiasm.
My overall goal was to just maintain the ability to tank, while not being able to be ignored by still maintaining being a threat.
Grab a nodachi and Shield Brace.
If you don't want a nodachi, use something like a dwarven axe.
hm okay, dwarven giant sticker and shield brace could work well. Thanks everyone for your help!~
If I understand PFS correctly then sundering enemy gear doesn't wrwck your income. If that is so, and considering how well stonestrike goes with sundering, a bec de corbin or lucerne hammer might be handy.
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Just note that Shield Brace is notably nerfed in PFS, treating the weapon as a one-handed one.
@Magda: Please don't get me wrong, it wasn't really a complaint. I do disagree a bit on the real life side (no sparring can possibly simulate actual combat with lethal weapons), and personally think that you overemphasize certain aspects just a bit (or underemphasize others, if you will, e.g. the value of first strikes), but overall, I think you do much good, and I certainly wouldn't want you to stop!
Unhindering shield already allows a person to get a shield bonus while getting 2 handed weapon damage and it doesn't require you to use a pole arm specifically. Honestly for most characters it's a better choice.
Ah... Well then, nevermind...
Possible reasoning for the Shield Brace nerf : They wanted to avoid the " I fight two-handed and I still have a shield " as best as possible, so the only known avenue would be (at least for me) is being an alchemist with the Vestigial Arm.
Polymorph spells.
Starting with Alter Self you can pick up 4+ hands. Monstrous Physique adds in some pretty substantial bonuses and special abilities if you follow that path. Mostly only works for STR based magus and melee wizards, but can be quite powerful.
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@Magda: Please don't get me wrong, it wasn't really a complaint. I do disagree a bit on the real life side (no sparring can possibly simulate actual combat with lethal weapons), and personally think that you overemphasize certain aspects just a bit (or underemphasize others, if you will, e.g. the value of first strikes), but overall, I think you do much good, and I certainly wouldn't want you to stop!
I actually agree with Derklord about over-emphasis and under-emphasis. Just not sure how to do it different. Thanks, Derklord, for your kind words.
Also I have a strong bias towards lower level (6 and under) Pathfinder play. Reach tactics are very strong at 1st level but becomes a rounding error by 12th level. So if high level play is your thing maybe don't bother with reach tactics.
So, who's game to join me for a real-world arena-style team-vs-team fight-to-the-death using a variety of realistic ancients weapons and armor? Surely there are people out there willing to risk death and dismemberment to test how accurately Pathfinder represents real melee combat. Any psychopathic truly fanatically fanatical HEMA fanatics out there?
Hint: we should probably do it on a private island, per Enter the Dragon, to avoid legal complications of killing/being killed. Anyone have a private island you'd like to volunteer for the tourney?
P.s. If your private island belongs to someone with the initials JE then I politely decline. Rumour is that Orgy Island aka Paedophile Island may change ownership soonish. My guess is that JE will be whacked before he can testify about the behavior of the 40% of living US presidents who visited his island.
P.P.s In order to qualify for 7th degree black belt in the martial art I've taught and practiced for 33 years, a style of Pentjak Silat, one must engage in a real lethal fight against at least three opponents at once and one must kill at least one of them. This is in addition to other requirements. Melee weapons are fine but missile weapons don't count towards this. My current instructor will never qualify as he is unwilling to become a killer. My style does not permit a black belt above 6th degree who is not a killer. Our 9th degree founder was a WW2 special forces officer who survived WW2 as a partisan in Japanese-occupied Java. He purportedly killed several of the Japanese soldiers who chopped up his mother in retaliation for his killing other Japanese soldiers. Stories say that he was a very capable fighter but otherwise a real bastard - probably LE.
P.P.P.s. If clerical healing magic were a real thing I might willingly participate in lethal arena-style melee combat, on the condition that coup de grace is forbidden, healing is plentiful, and everyone makes a best-effort to minimize deaths. I'm age 50, so I'd have to fail a wisdom check to actually participate. I've broken multiple bones doing unarmed 'sparring': tibia, multiple ribs, toes, nose twice, etc. My karate-instructor daughter #2 (as opposed to silat-instructor daughter #1) penetrated my guard and broke one of my ribs in a sparring match just last year. I was quite impressed that she was able to do so. In Pathfinder game terms I'm sure I've received well over 100 hp lifetime damage, spread out over hundreds of 'fights' over 30+ years. In game terms I'm probably a 2nd level monk sans any mystical abilities. Bruce Lee was a 5th level monk. I've always felt that a sparring match was incomplete until I took at least a little damage, especially if I face only one opponent. My particular style is rather traditional and eschews competition, although we're encouraged to spar with advanced practitioners of other martial arts. My personal nemesis is advanced jujitsu and judo black belts, because they grapple better than I ever will. I also usually lose against pro MMA fighters.
Hey, I'd appreciate it if y'all help me pump "favorites" on this post above. If you think it's a worthy post please make it a Favorite. This is the only time I've ever made such a request on this forum.
Possible reasoning for the Shield Brace nerf : They wanted to avoid the " I fight two-handed and I still have a shield " as best as possible, so the only known avenue would be (at least for me) is being an alchemist with the Vestigial Arm.Polymorph spells.
Starting with Alter Self you can pick up 4+ hands. Monstrous Physique adds in some pretty substantial bonuses and special abilities if you follow that path. Mostly only works for STR based magus and melee wizards, but can be quite powerful.
I made the assumption based on a zero-buff situation because fights can happen everywhere and minutes/level spells won't cover every situation unless taking the risk to spend several of these. Illusion spells are great to try pushing the group to waste lots of resources.
One of the reasons it works best for Magus is Spell Combat. You can buff and fight on round 1.
Benefit(s): You still gain a buckler’s bonus to AC even if you use your shield hand for some other purpose. When you wield a buckler, your shield hand is considered free for the purposes of casting spells, wielding weapons, and using any other abilities that require you to have a free hand or interact with your shield, such as the swashbuckler’s precise strike deed or the Weapon Finesse feat.
The way I read that is it's free for wielding weapons. So you can two weapon fight while benefiting or fight with a two handed weapon just fine. Both of which you can do already, you would just lose the benefit of the buckler and take attack penalties. This feat overwrites that.
I get the idea, but as I often play 12+ content, can't ofc have the same reasoning. (...) I often felt it was more rewarding to be proactive rather than doing the waiting game (...)
That's basically what I was talking about with Magda. The AoOs become progressively less common and also less impactful, but that doesn't mean reach weapons stop having value. When facing enemies with 10" reach, you can actively approach them without provoking an AoO, very valuable for any kind of character with a "move+full-attack" ability. Similarily, any time an enemy is 15" away (i.e. two squares between you), a reach weapon allows a full attack, where a non-reach-weapon doesn't. Respectively for characters with limited range pseudo-pounce (e.g. unMonk).