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I don't really care for superhero stories anymore... it's not like they've treated their stories like the LotR movies or GoT TV shows, with careful attention to canon and what the writers of old came up with.

Both their TV and movie franchises have done what they wanted with the characters. The only thing that's the same - if you're lucky - is the hero's general power, along with his/her name.

Both DC and Marvel have done this: import the basics and come up with whatever they wanted.

It's been such a cash cow, even when they didn't care about canon, because they harnessed our love for comics and how we used to await the next adventure to find out what happened to our heroes. Now instead we await the next movie to see how different our heroes will be or how different they'll behave or who their girlfriend or boyfriend will be in their their new alternate universe movie versions.

All the while, they're not offering anything new or cool, they're just rehashing existing stories, but this time, we get a young Aunt May that's hot and doesn't have gray hair and wrinkles.

Yay.


GM PDK wrote:

I don't really care for superhero stories anymore... it's not like they've treated their stories like the LotR movies or GoT TV shows, with careful attention to canon and what the writers of old came up with.

Both their TV and movie franchises have done what they wanted with the characters. The only thing that's the same - if you're lucky - is the hero's general power, along with his/her name.

Both DC and Marvel have done this: import the basics and come up with whatever they wanted.

It's been such a cash cow, even when they didn't care about canon, because they harnessed our love for comics and how we used to await the next adventure to find out what happened to our heroes. Now instead we await the next movie to see how different our heroes will be or how different they'll behave or who their girlfriend or boyfriend will be in their their new alternate universe movie versions.

All the while, they're not offering anything new or cool, they're just rehashing existing stories, but this time, we get a young Aunt May that's hot and doesn't have gray hair and wrinkles.

Yay.

Meh. It's not like the comic writers treat the characters any better really.

And it's not really clear what else they could do? Unlike LotR or GoT these aren't single stories - they're decades of stories and retcons and general confused continuity. There's no way to stick with that canon and still draw in mainstream audiences. Short of starting back in the 60s (or the 30s!) and literally adapting every story, including all the crappy ones.

I mean, if you don't like the movies, that's cool. Everyone's taste is their own. I think Marvel especially has done some damn cool stuff, paying homage to the old canon while heading off in different directions too. I haven't liked everything, but in general far more more than previous attempts at superhero movies.

(And I don't know about Got, but the idea that the LotR (and especially the Hobbit) movies were made with "careful attention to canon and what the writers of old came up with" is at the very least hotly debated.)


Aunt May isn't that hot...

Also to answer Jeff question, maybe he spent the first 30 or so years hunting Nazis. I mean they're still around...


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I would so be down with Denzel as Blue Marvel.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:
Aunt May isn't that hot...

You must have one heck of a girlfriend.


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I think he means the comic aunt may. Basically saying that they shouldn't of made the movie aunt may hot.. Which it is a bit odd.


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thejeff wrote:
I mean, if you don't like the movies, that's cool. Everyone's taste is their own. I think Marvel especially has done some damn cool stuff, paying homage to the old canon while heading off in different directions too. I haven't liked everything, but in general far more more than previous attempts at superhero movies.

When Iron Man 1 came out in 2008 I was blown away. How subtly they meshed the real world with the 'fiction' of Marvel... it was done masterfully. And Downey Jr. was just perfect in it. Made the audience root for him.

Not sure what happened along the way but perhaps it was the sheer proliferation of these titles that negated my appreciation of them. A wise man once told me, "Too much of a good thing is like not enough."

If I think back at the sheer amount of Marvel movies in the last ten years, it is now the little inconspicuous, less appreciated at first ones that now reside in my memory as the points of light, rather than the blockbuster ones that felt like a 30min cartoon that had gone too long...


eh Being an avid comic reader I can't get enough of them. Your allowed to be burnt out but I still want more. It's still nowhere close to the number of westerns they made.


I'm with Vid. They've made WAY more Westerns than they have Comic book movies.


Yeah, but westerns catered to a whole different target audience. As mainstream as superhero movies have become, there's still a huge amount of people who won't be caught at the theater watching this kind of spandex and shiny colors kind of stuff.


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Well to be fair, I'm not one for rom-coms, but they apparently still get made....


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
I think he means the comic aunt may. Basically saying that they shouldn't of made the movie aunt may hot.. Which it is a bit odd.

Having Aunt May move away from 'Weak old woman who, if she ever finds out Peter is Spider-Man, WILL DIE FROM SHOCK!' is a good thing. I've seen several narmtastic scenes from old Spider-Man comics where Peter imagines her selling pencils on the street if he gets found out and her wobbling around and needing a blood transfusion to keep going was cringe-inducing. Having her as a B-Plot and character in her own right instead of a millstone was a breath of fresh air.


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GM PDK wrote:
Yeah, but westerns catered to a whole different target audience. As mainstream as superhero movies have become, there's still a huge amount of people who won't be caught at the theater watching this kind of spandex and shiny colors kind of stuff.

Maybe but a comic movie is the highest grossing film of all time. so I feel like people that don't like comic book movies are closer to the minority. It's like when people complain about endgame to be edgy. I don't have to defend it it made 1.4 billion dollars. it doesn't need my help.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
GM PDK wrote:
Yeah, but westerns catered to a whole different target audience. As mainstream as superhero movies have become, there's still a huge amount of people who won't be caught at the theater watching this kind of spandex and shiny colors kind of stuff.
Maybe but a comic movie is the highest grossing film of all time. so I feel like people that don't like comic book movies are closer to the minority. It's like when people complain about endgame to be edgy. I don't have to defend it it made 1.4 billion dollars. it doesn't need my help.

They're not awful movies, especially considering the massive amount of money and people hours shoved into their making.

The whole point of my rant here is that while it's been great, we have to be careful not to start accepting whatever is presented just to support the superhero or fantasy genre. Otherwise you get an emperor with no clothes situation in a few years with no one bringing the bad critiques that some of their failures may deserve. In general the MCU movies have been great, but I have been caught sleeping through certain parts of them yes. A great plot doesn't always need a big budget...


I don't think you have to worry about that with the nerd community. Look at how viciously they tore into S Vs B. Justice league too and I kind of liked that movie.


True. S vs. B totally deserved it... so did Last Jedi.


yeah... Last Jedi was so bad it made me have to take a second look at my love for the entire franchise.


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Can we not derail this thread with Star Wars gripes, please?
There are multiple threads where you can go to town on it already.

Thank you.

--C.


I mean we are only like 2 movies from them being the same universe.... fine. fine.

Scarab Sages

thejeff wrote:


Personally, I'd rather ditch the Holocaust connection than muck with him having a second mutant slow aging ability. He's supposed to have fairly early backstory connections to Xavier as well, so you'd either have to ditch those, make Xavier long-lived or totally recast them with him being a older mentor figure to Xavier rather than peers. And then what was he doing for the 60-70 years before the X-Men showed up to fight him?

This. It's what I was pointing out in my earlier post. True, the Holocaust worked really well for the character, but as we got further from the actual event, it became more difficult to keep him relevant. Divorcing Magneto's origin from the Holocaust would free up the writers. There's no shortage of historical horrors the character might have faced on his road to radicalization. And when history doesn't work, make s$&# up.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Unless there is a way to work in comic continuity that he was de-aged into a baby by the Stranger and later restored as a younger man.
In a movie, have Ian McKellen piss off someone powerful at the start of the movie, and have Professor X find someone to restore him at the end.
Magneto escapes when his physical age is late 20's or early 30's.
That keeps his Holocaust origin intact, which is his primary motivation for seeing humans as a threat to mutants.

Also, Professor X was in a younger body. He transferred his mind into a cloned body after his original was taken over and transformed into a Brood.


Charles Scholz wrote:

Unless there is a way to work in comic continuity that he was de-aged into a baby by the Stranger and later restored as a younger man.

In a movie, have Ian McKellen piss off someone powerful at the start of the movie, and have Professor X find someone to restore him at the end.
Magneto escapes when his physical age is late 20's or early 30's.
That keeps his Holocaust origin intact, which is his primary motivation for seeing humans as a threat to mutants.

Also, Professor X was in a younger body. He transferred his mind into a cloned body after his original was taken over and transformed into a Brood.

Even then though, both of those should have happened within the last few years, judging by everyone else's ages. Thus they should have been in their 70s before either deaging, which doesn't match how they were portrayed.

And as Aberzombie said, there's no shortage of historical horrors they could use. Any persecuted minority could easily see their persecution as evidence of what humans would do to mutants.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

If I were to update the Magneto storyline, I would probably move it from the Holocaust to the Balkan conflicts. Sadly Genocide didn't end with the nazis...


MMC,

Yeah but I'm not sure people will be as interested/invested because the Balkans didn't exactly get much highlights. Now if we DID change Magneto into a man of color, the Rwandan Genocide MIGHT be more emblematic.

But in any case, I still think keep Magento's Holocaust ties is an important aspect for the X-men mythos.

Also if we have to de-rail this thread about Star Wars, I want to be because we're crossing it over with the MCU. :p


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I think in the 90's cartoon they left it super vague and just called it a war.


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Next Magneto needs to have long flowing snow white hair, like the weird emo young Magneto comic back when he was Neutral Good and suffering from amnesia.... i.e. back when he was basically an aasimar lol


GM PDK wrote:
Next Magneto needs to have long flowing snow white hair, like the weird emo young Magneto comic back when he was Neutral Good and suffering from amnesia.... i.e. back when he was basically an aasimar lol

...

This (Joseph) was a clone of Magneto, though.

(Or he was retconned as such, at least...?)

--C.


Joseph is a clone but he's dead now...

Not sure Prof X got around to fixing that or not...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

MMC,

Yeah but I'm not sure people will be as interested/invested because the Balkans didn't exactly get much highlights. Now if we DID change Magneto into a man of color, the Rwandan Genocide MIGHT be more emblematic.

But in any case, I still think keep Magento's Holocaust ties is an important aspect for the X-men mythos.

Also if we have to de-rail this thread about Star Wars, I want to be because we're crossing it over with the MCU. :p

You think people are more invested in the Rwanda conflict than the Balkans? If anything I would say that people are more informed about the latter than the former.


I dunno about invested...but the fact the Rwandan genocide has had larger ramifications on a continent than what occurred in the Balkans. Much like the Holocaust has for Jews.

Scarab Sages

Ghosted: Hulu Has Pulled The Plug On The Planned ‘Ghost Rider’ Series

In the words of prequel Darth Vader....

NOOOOOOoooooo…..!!!!


Aberzombie wrote:

Ghosted: Hulu Has Pulled The Plug On The Planned ‘Ghost Rider’ Series

In the words of prequel Darth Vader....

NOOOOOOoooooo…..!!!!

Hopefully, that version of Ghost Rider will be back in some other form...

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Angelina Jolie as Thena


I hope so too, Kahnya. But it seems that for some reason, Feige wants to put Ghost Rider in the MCU. Which is fine...but I'd still rather have him and Hellstrom do a kind of cross over TV thing before moving on.


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I want DEATHLOK "promoted" to the moves, if we're promoting folks...


I wouldn't mind that if we get Machine Man first. :)

Scarab Sages

KahnyaGnorc wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:

Ghosted: Hulu Has Pulled The Plug On The Planned ‘Ghost Rider’ Series

In the words of prequel Darth Vader....

NOOOOOOoooooo…..!!!!

Hopefully, that version of Ghost Rider will be back in some other form...

Agreed. The actor was excellent in his TV appearances, and the way they wrote the character for the screen was far superior to the comic book version.


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Agreed A-zombie. Right now while Robbie's character has...evolved since his TV debut, the fact the writers decide to FULLY embrace the Ghost Rider mythos in some way, was, to me, a great decision and one that made Gabriel's role in the series...phenomenal.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Looks like Shuri's back in the "MCU" as part of Damage Control.

The new VR experience from the VOID.


JoelF847 wrote:

Looks like Shuri's back in the "MCU" as part of Damage Control.

The new VR experience from the VOID.

That for some video game?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

GM PDK wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:

Looks like Shuri's back in the "MCU" as part of Damage Control.

The new VR experience from the VOID.

That for some video game?

Not exactly - it's an in person VR experience, not a video game for a home console of PC. VOID has a dozen+ locations with VR experiences based on Star Wars, Wreck-it Ralph, Ghostbusters, and their own original IP. Users physically move around a roughly 40 foot space while in full body VR gear, hold physical items like blasters in the Star Wars one as a controller, and there are some physical objects in the space to interact with in the VR UI. They also have smell and thermal elements. Well worth checking out if you're in the area. They recently announced a 20+ global location expansion, so hopefully it will be closer to more people soon (I've been to the one in Orlando, hoping they open a Seattle one someday).


Cool... the 'suits' are very iron man-ish I think.


I truly hope we'll get more news after Comic-Con about any MCU news. I could use some good news about now.


Ok... Feigemeister keeps taking on more projects... now I'm worried this will all go to crap spectacularly....


I'm not that worried yet. Besides we still have most of Phase 4 that's not quite in his hands...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
GM PDK wrote:
Ok... Feigemeister keeps taking on more projects... now I'm worried this will all go to crap spectacularly....

This is a good thing, since with oversight of ALL film productions, it means the TV shows can maybe now finally start interacting with the movies.


MMC,

ESPECIALLY if the rumors about Captain Marvel 2 MIGHT have Jessica Jones AND possibly Spider-man having Daredevil. (IE the people from the TV shows)


I really hope that is true.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
Spider-man having Daredevil.

THIS!


Like I said, just a rumor. Plus they have to wait for the Netflic thing to expire...whatever that means.

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