Arcane bloodlines

[Lanathar]

So as far as I understand there a 2 bloodlines (out of 10) from the new core book that grant access to the arcane spell list

I have looked through the existing 1E bloodlines from the srd and cannot actually see many more that fit better in arcane (compared to the other 3)

Rather than list it I thought I would ask - what future bloodlines do people think would make a good case for being arcane (existing or new).

Or are dragon and imperial broad enough ?
If the precedent is planar outsiders are divine then that seems to reduce creatures with an arcane tradition (but I admit to not knowing every creature !)

[masda_gib]

A construct influenced bloodline would fit with Arcane.

[Bardarok]

I could see Rakshasa and Oni both being Arcane. Both are spiritual beings native to the material plane.

[Aiden2018]

Arcana sorta has a strict definition, which I had assumed was exclusive the domains of wizards and dragons. So I dunno if any other sort of creature could embody that concept.

Gods/Fiends/Undead have their own thing going on with their divine domains, fey/spirits got their nature magics. Not even sure where bards and witches fit in but they are probably the closest, along with aberrations. But the new edition already specified that they were Occult. The only thing left is constructs, which are typically the product of arcane magics.

So I guess you could specify a construct bloodline? Sorta like a homunculus that has matured into a full grown sapient being? But I'm not sure if that fits with the lore.

[Leotamer]

Phoenix seems like a likely arcane bloodline. Other candidates based on my limited knowledge would be Dreamspun, Boreal, Starsoul, and Stormborn.

[Deadmanwalking]

Any creature that uses Arcane Magic will get you an Arcane Bloodline. That's why Dragons give one. I'd bet on Rakshasa doing the same if they stay Arcane (which they thematically should), as well as Naga.

I could also see Astral, Impossible (which is the construct-related one), and the Genie Bloodlines being Arcane as well (though the Genies being Primal does also make sense).

[Pumpkinhead11]

masda_gib wrote:

A construct influenced bloodline would fit with Arcane.

I’m picturing Pinocchio in mage robes now

[masda_gib]

Pumpkinhead11 wrote:

masda_gib wrote:

A construct influenced bloodline would fit with Arcane.

I’m picturing Pinocchio in mage robes now

...I thought of an accident while creating a golem, magical nanobots or something like that. XD But pinocchio works too, I guess.

[Lanathar]

My look through identified Rakshasa , Phoenix and Impossible

I kind of assumed genies would be primal

[Deadmanwalking]

Lanathar wrote:

I kind of assumed genies would be primal

Depends on what aspect of genies you want their Bloodlines to focus on. If it's the elemental stuff, then yes, but frankly most of the signature abilities of most types of genie aren't even on the Primal list (invisibility, wish, etc.)

Arcane still gives the elemental stuff while also giving some of the more esoteric/magical stuff.

[Mark Seifter]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Lanathar wrote:

I kind of assumed genies would be primal

Depends on what aspect of genies you want their Bloodlines to focus on. If it's the elemental stuff, then yes, but frankly most of the signature abilities of most types of genie aren't even on the Primal list (invisibility, wish, etc.)

Arcane still gives the elemental stuff while also giving some of the more esoteric/magical stuff.

The elemental planes are pure matter, the essence where both arcane and primal spells overlap. The raw elementals represent more of that primal side of the equation, but who or what on the elemental planes might represent the arcane side? ;)

Full credit to James Jacobs for pointing this out to me a while back.

[Seisho]

Lets see over the old bloodlines *opens d20pfsrd*

Accursed reads like its the hag predecessor
Astral would definitly be a good arcane bloodline
Destined reads more like it could be another divine
The specific elemental would be most likely primal too
Dreamspun sounds nice, but more occult - well at least there can be non-icky occult bloodlines :P
Ectoplasm will probably come again with the occult adventures equivalent
Hmmm...Harrow bloodline has potential for occult and arcane, I personally would put it into occult thoug
Impossible Bloodline was very cool, it looks a bit like an construct bloodline, but it was outsider tied...so either divine or arcane
Maestro bloodline has azata ties, definitly divine
Martyred Bloodline is hard to say...kind of gives me an everything BUT arcane vibe
Didn'nt know that phoenix sorcerer is an actual thing, sounds cool but again more primal
Oni - Arcane or Occult
Protean - they are chaos, everything is possible! :D (but probably divine since outsider, but seriously every spell list would kind of fit)
Pstilence is more of a primal thing
possessed is pretty much occult
Psychic bloodline will probably join the occult
Rakshasa actually would make good arcane sorcerers (maybe occult)
Scorpion bloodline would probably be primal, as would be the serpentine
Shadow - now that makes an good arcane mage
Solar and Starsoul bloodlines look like divine ones for me
stormborn on the other hand already sounds primal to me
Theres a unicorn bloodline? Well, primal probably
the verdant just has primal written all over it
the vestige bloodline sounds potentially arcane

[Leotamer]

Phoenixes are intelligent creatures. I don't see why they would be primal, but dragons would be arcane.

I also think vestige is a part of the imperial bloodline, which use to be human-only.

[Gloom]

I would love to see the "Impossible" bloodline come back into the mix. It's one of my favorites!

Edit: I can still see Impossible being Arcane as opposed to Divine even if it's linked to outsiders since they're all effectively constructs.

[xNellynelx]

Leotamer wrote:

Phoenixes are intelligent creatures. I don't see why they would be primal, but dragons would be arcane.

I also think vestige is a part of the imperial bloodline, which use to be human-only.

Primal has nothing to do with Intelligence (I think). All the spell types are about what essence they manipulate. In the playtest, their magical abilities were Primal.

[kaid]

Lanathar wrote:

So as far as I understand there a 2 bloodlines (out of 10) from the new core book that grant access to the arcane spell list

I have looked through the existing 1E bloodlines from the srd and cannot actually see many more that fit better in arcane (compared to the other 3)

Rather than list it I thought I would ask - what future bloodlines do people think would make a good case for being arcane (existing or new).

Or are dragon and imperial broad enough ?
If the precedent is planar outsiders are divine then that seems to reduce creatures with an arcane tradition (but I admit to not knowing every creature !)

I think it is a matter of the book is already 1k pages there is a limit on what all they can stuff in there. Like PF1 I fully expect new bloodlines for sorc to come out at a pretty good clip.

Mechanical would make a lot of sense. You have android blood in your DNA. A bloodline from the mana wastes where you have arcane magic as ancient scars from the magic wars that wrecked the place.

[pixierose]

I could see an Ooze bloodline being Arcane.

[Kelseus]

Mark seemed to point us in the right direction.

the 4 essences are Material + Spiritual + Mental + Vital.
Arcane is Mental and Material, so look for bloodlines that would point in that direction.

Psychic would be mental, but maybe not material
Efreeti, Div, Djinni, Shaitan, Marid should all be arcane as they would represent the "mental" (i.e. intelligent) aspect of the elemental planes.

[Captain Morgan]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Any creature that uses Arcane Magic will get you an Arcane Bloodline.

Let's take a look at the playtest bestiary and see what we have for arcane beasties.

Barghest (goblin exclusive?)
Caligni (Dark Creeper)
Doppleganger
Various demon special abilities have the arcane tag, oddly enough, though demons are clearly divine.

Dragons
Chimeras (really just dragons again innit)
Drow and Driders?
Efreeti, Janni, and presumably other Genie-kin
Fire Giants
Frost Giants
Rune Giants
Golems
Hag
Harpy
Medusa
Rakasha
Sinspawn
Winterwolves

Definitely a few of those can be used as options, at least. (Also, I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of arcane tags in here that are either outdated and never corrected, or I don't fully understand how a creature can have both divine and arcane abilities.)

Being descended from the products of fleshwarping somehow seems like it has some promise for a pretty horrifying bloodline. And a bloodline that turns you into a giant or barghast could be cool. And I guess there's no reason we couldn't have an elven bloodline that devles further into elven magic than ancestry feats represent?

[Deadmanwalking]

Several of those have definitely been changed for the final version (I'm pretty sure all Demon stuff is now Divine and Hags are clearly Occult)...but yes, that's the general idea once we can do it with the final Bestiary.

[Saint Evil]

Treerazor, from Paizocon banquet slides, as a Nascent demon lord had all primal tags for his stuff.

[Deadmanwalking]

Saint Evil wrote:

Treerazor, from Paizocon banquet slides, as a Nascent demon lord had all primal tags for his stuff.

Treerazer is a bit of an exception to the rule, being a God (well, demigod, anyway) and all. I would guess, however, that normal Demons are more uniformly Divine.

[Seisho]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Saint Evil wrote:

Treerazor, from Paizocon banquet slides, as a Nascent demon lord had all primal tags for his stuff.

Treerazer is a bit of an exception to the rule, being a God (well, demigod, anyway) and all. I would guess, however, that normal Demons are more uniformly Divine.

Also Treerazer has a strong (if negative) nature affinity, which certainly helps with the primal essence

hmmm...maybe demons who are working for treerazer specificly should gain some access to primal magic
this and the application of this rule to other entities could make for some fun surprises

[Saint Evil]

As certain Paizo staff like to cite, there are multiple ways to get stuff, only PCs have a somewhat set way.

I expect Demons, and 'Outsiders' in general, to have Divine innate abilities. But I wonder how much that will be clung to. An innate Divine spell NOT on the divine list will bother some people.

[Saedar]

Saint Evil wrote:

An innate Divine spell NOT on the divine list will bother some people.

Any given thing at all has the potential to bother some people. The core rules of the game allow for rare and entirely unique options. If they don't like it, their options are deal, homebrew, work with the GM to find that option, or find a different game. /shrug

[Rysky]

There was a FAQ about that awhile back, no idea if it'll hold as true going into 2e.

[Cthulhusquatch]

I'd think Dreamspun as more occult.. Stormborn and Boreal primal.

Leotamer wrote:

Phoenix seems like a likely arcane bloodline. Other candidates based on my limited knowledge would be Dreamspun, Boreal, Starsoul, and Stormborn.