How to do a complex retraining correctly?

Pathfinder Society


I've decided to retrain my level 18 seeker quite a lot to give her a better chance in the DPR Olympics, but I can't wrap my head around one question.

I took Snake Fang as a normal feat at level 3, and now I also have both Snake Sidewind and Snake Fang. I want to dip into Style Shifter at level 18. That archetype gives a style feat at the first level. My goal is to get Snake Style from the archetype and get a new feat instead of the one I took at level 3. I am not sure how to do it correctly.

Is it possible to take Snake Style as the feat from Style Shifter, and then instantly retrain the feat I took at level 3 into something more useful, all just for 5PP? AFAIK, having two of the same feat is not explicitly prohibited anywhere, they just don't stack unless the description says otherwise.

Or do I have to jump through hoops, get a style feat I don't need, and then do a whole lot of retraining? If so, how much PP would such a retraining cost?

I know that my retraining has got to be signed by a GM, but both of us don't really know how to do it best.

Dark Archive 4/5

You can't take the same feat twice unless the feat itself says you can.

That being said, personally I'd allow you to retrain the old feat at the same time as you do the levelup, allowing you to swap the feat for something else at the cost of 5pp + gold. This isn't strictly RAW, but to rule otherwise would mean that you'd need to train all 3 feats away (costing 15pp) and pick 3 other feats, then level up, pick the style, and retrain 2 more feats, for a total PP cost of 25. That seems excessive, given that the end result is you exchanging one feat to another.

(same thing with people wanting to retrain from rogue to unchained rogue. Strictly speaking, you might need to retrain all your rogue levels to a 3rd class first, and then back into unchained rogue, but there's no reason why you should need to pay twice as much from retrainging from rogue to rogue than to any other class)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Have to follow the rules. So retraining chained to unchained rogue does require a complete retrain at each level. To do otherwise is not following the rules for training.

As for the Snake Fang feat, you can select as feat when you multiclass to shifter and take that archetype. I don't know of anyplace that prohibits someone of taking the same feat again. As you noted, the bonus don't stack unless the feat says it does. It just don't make sense to take the same feat twice.

Then you could train out Snake Fang that was taken at 3rd level for another feat. You do have to take care to make a choice that would have been valid at 3rd.

So yes, I agree with FM Tomppa you should be able to training out Snake Fang taken at 3rd level for stand 5 PP plus gold.

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Gary Bush wrote:
Then you could train out Snake Fang that was taken at 3rd level for another feat. You do have to take care to make a choice that would have been valid at 3rd.

Actually, that part isn't true. Per this FAQ:

"Retraining: Can I retrain a feat to replace it with a feat I didn't qualify for at the level I originally gained that feat?

Yes. As long as the new feat is a valid feat for your current character, you can retrain the old feat and replace it with the new feat.

For example, if you are a 3rd-level rogue who took Improved Initiative at 1st level, you can retrain that feat and replace it with Weapon Focus. Even though Weapon Focus has a prerequisite of "base attack bonus +1" (which means you couldn't take it as a 1st-level rogue), it is a valid feat for your current level (3rd), and is therefore a valid choice for retraining.

(Note: Likewise, the fighter class ability to retrain fighter bonus feats does not require you to meet all of the new feat's prerequisites at the level you originally gained the feat.)"

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Ok. I seem to remember that a class feat had a different interplay. But thanks for the heads-up!

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