Is there have any new spells in PF2 different from playtest?


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion


I'm intesting in spells,any new spells?
thanks


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I'm 100% sure there will be, but I can't think of any specifically that have been spoiled so far. Hopefully if I've missed one someone will let us know!


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Wait, yes I do! Divine Lance wasn't in the playtest, I think it's a damage dealing divine cantrip, or maybe 1st level spell


Is Clone in the final version?


I really really hope reincarnate is in the final version. It's possibly my favorite spell.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I really loved the Shadow Blast Spell.


Aiden2018 wrote:
Is Clone in the final version?

IDK personally but my guess if it shows up, my guess is it will be in the ritual type magic. Like the undead making ones will be.


I'm curious about how they decided to handle traditionally 'story-breaking' spells like scrying, divination, teleportation, and raise dead.


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RangerWickett wrote:
I'm curious about how they decided to handle traditionally 'story-breaking' spells like scrying, divination, teleportation, and raise dead.

Well, in the playtest, rarity was the answer. Those spells were marked as uncommon, so you generally needed to get the permission of your GM to have them. But they make for fun story awards too when the GM deems appropriate. For example, my players defeated a creature with the Nightmare template, and by conducting a ritual involving its corpse they were able to learn spells it knew, namely Shadow Walk and Nightmare.

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Captain Morgan wrote:


Well, in the playtest, rarity was the answer. Those spells were marked as uncommon, so you generally needed to get the permission of your GM to have them. [...]

To elaborate slightly, "getting permission from the GM" in this context typically means "finding it in an adventure". If you beat a wizard who's been scrying on you, gaining his spellbook as treasure and copying the otherwise uncommon spells out of it is totally legitimate. "Uncommon" is generally going to mean "must gain access through feats or story progression".

Paizo Employee Designer

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Michael Sayre wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:


Well, in the playtest, rarity was the answer. Those spells were marked as uncommon, so you generally needed to get the permission of your GM to have them. [...]
To elaborate slightly, "getting permission from the GM" in this context typically means "finding it in an adventure". If you beat a wizard who's been scrying on you, gaining his spellbook as treasure and copying the otherwise uncommon spells out of it is totally legitimate. "Uncommon" is generally going to mean "must gain access through feats or story progression".

It's also possible that you will eventually be able to track down an uncommon spell through enough downtime legwork as well, possibly at an increased price because of its rarity. Rare spells, though, are pretty much special rewards...

That said, those are all defaults, so your group is free to do whatever you like, from changing around what's uncommon and rare, to just making everything common, and more!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Michael Sayre wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:


Well, in the playtest, rarity was the answer. Those spells were marked as uncommon, so you generally needed to get the permission of your GM to have them. [...]
To elaborate slightly, "getting permission from the GM" in this context typically means "finding it in an adventure". If you beat a wizard who's been scrying on you, gaining his spellbook as treasure and copying the otherwise uncommon spells out of it is totally legitimate. "Uncommon" is generally going to mean "must gain access through feats or story progression".

It's also possible that you will eventually be able to track down an uncommon spell through enough downtime legwork as well, possibly at an increased price because of its rarity. Rare spells, though, are pretty much special rewards...

That said, those are all defaults, so your group is free to do whatever you like, from changing around what's uncommon and rare, to just making everything common, and more!

Are there any default Rare Spells in the PF2 Core?

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There is a grand total of 1.


Ooh. Time for rampant speculation as to what that one is !

Wish or True Resurrection would be my guesses


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Lanathar wrote:

Ooh. Time for rampant speculation as to what that one is !

Wish or True Resurrection would be my guesses

You'd assume that to be the case.

However, given Mark's comment, we can probably deduce that Wish isn't the one.

Why? Because Miracle is pretty much the same spell (but with different execution), so it would be likely they'd be given the same rarity (though of course, not necessarily).

Then Resurrect is a Ritual, so I would assume that True Resurrection would also be a Ritual. I know rituals can have higher rarity, and possibly Mark was including Rituals, so True Resurrection could totally be it, but because of this I don't think so.

I am actually not so sure it's going to be a 10th level spell. I wouldn't be surprised if it was something closer to mid-level.

The only other one that comes to mind is possibly Animate Dead, which basically means "You have to ask your GM if you're going to try to run a game with an army of zombies".

Throwing my guess on Animate Dead :)

This is also the first time, to my knowledge, that Mark has ever replied to me directly on a thread! I feel so special! Thanks for the response :)

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Based on the playtest, I'm betting the Rare spell is antimagic field. And if it is, I'm happy with that.


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Lanathar wrote:

Ooh. Time for rampant speculation as to what that one is !

Wish or True Resurrection would be my guesses

Obviously you didn't play enough PF1. It's clearly Know Peerage.


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Midnightoker wrote:
This is also the first time, to my knowledge, that Mark has ever replied to me directly on a thread! I feel so special! Thanks for the response :)

Have you gone on any of Mark's twitch streams? I love it when he sees someone in the chat and gets excited because he recognizes people from the forums.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Michael Sayre wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:


Well, in the playtest, rarity was the answer. Those spells were marked as uncommon, so you generally needed to get the permission of your GM to have them. [...]
To elaborate slightly, "getting permission from the GM" in this context typically means "finding it in an adventure". If you beat a wizard who's been scrying on you, gaining his spellbook as treasure and copying the otherwise uncommon spells out of it is totally legitimate. "Uncommon" is generally going to mean "must gain access through feats or story progression".

It's also possible that you will eventually be able to track down an uncommon spell through enough downtime legwork as well, possibly at an increased price because of its rarity. Rare spells, though, are pretty much special rewards...

That said, those are all defaults, so your group is free to do whatever you like, from changing around what's uncommon and rare, to just making everything common, and more!

I was never much of a fan of the rarity system, but I appreciate how easy you all made it to disregard if wanted.


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WatersLethe wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
This is also the first time, to my knowledge, that Mark has ever replied to me directly on a thread! I feel so special! Thanks for the response :)
Have you gone on any of Mark's twitch streams? I love it when he sees someone in the chat and gets excited because he recognizes people from the forums.

I have not, but now I guess I have to :)

Those would be the "Arcane Mark" streams right?

Cydeth wrote:


Based on the playtest, I'm betting the Rare spell is antimagic field. And if it is, I'm happy with that.

That's a good guess too, for pretty much the same reasons you'd want to restrict Animate Dead. It's fine for a GM to have, but problematic in the hands of players.


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Midnightoker wrote:
Lanathar wrote:

Ooh. Time for rampant speculation as to what that one is !

Wish or True Resurrection would be my guesses

Then Resurrect is a Ritual, so I would assume that True Resurrection would also be a Ritual. I know rituals can have higher rarity, and possibly Mark was including Rituals, so True Resurrection could totally be it, but because of this I don't think so.

Actually, in the playtest, "True Resurrection" is just the heightened form of "Resurrection", since heightening was meant to take away the copy-pasta/slightly-better-but-still-the-same-as-X. spells. I also think Animate Dead is a ritual from I heard Jason say in one of the PaizoCon talks. My guess is also antimagic field, since that spell is a B****! to fight against, I would think they'd minimize how many people could get their hands on it.


WatersLethe wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
This is also the first time, to my knowledge, that Mark has ever replied to me directly on a thread! I feel so special! Thanks for the response :)
Have you gone on any of Mark's twitch streams? I love it when he sees someone in the chat and gets excited because he recognizes people from the forums.

I am now sad that I have a different twitch handle :-P

I also got excited when I recognised names from here on the KD discord - where I have yet another different handle (being just my actual first name because I didn’t really get it!)


I would also say Antimagic Field is the rare spell. But only because I'm sure I read that info/speculation somewhere here or in a blog or on reddit already... but I can't remember where.


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Anti-Magic field was rare in the playtest, and I don't recall that being the case for any other spells. A glance at the spell list seems to confirm that. So it seems like a good guess for the CRB.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Michael Sayre wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:


Well, in the playtest, rarity was the answer. Those spells were marked as uncommon, so you generally needed to get the permission of your GM to have them. [...]
To elaborate slightly, "getting permission from the GM" in this context typically means "finding it in an adventure". If you beat a wizard who's been scrying on you, gaining his spellbook as treasure and copying the otherwise uncommon spells out of it is totally legitimate. "Uncommon" is generally going to mean "must gain access through feats or story progression".

It's also possible that you will eventually be able to track down an uncommon spell through enough downtime legwork as well, possibly at an increased price because of its rarity. Rare spells, though, are pretty much special rewards...

That said, those are all defaults, so your group is free to do whatever you like, from changing around what's uncommon and rare, to just making everything common, and more!

I suppose I should have specified what I meant by "permission from the GM." I count "changing the defaults" as part of that. If you ask your GM and they say it is fine, Bob is your uncle. Even if you don't have a feat giving you access or haven't found it in the story yet.

As an example, my player was very excited to bust out Raise Dead, not realizing it was uncommon, and I let it slide because the AP had a couple of scrolls of it as loot drops anyway.


Aiden2018 wrote:
Is Clone in the final version?

It would be really cool if they stole the joke from the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook for Clone.


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Staffan Johansson wrote:
Aiden2018 wrote:
Is Clone in the final version?
It would be really cool if they stole the joke from the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook for Clone.

What was that? Did they have it listed twice or something?


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Mechalibur wrote:
Staffan Johansson wrote:
Aiden2018 wrote:
Is Clone in the final version?
It would be really cool if they stole the joke from the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook for Clone.
What was that? Did they have it listed twice or something?

I don't think that was clone. It was deja vu. I don't think that was clone.


Anguish wrote:
Mechalibur wrote:
Staffan Johansson wrote:
Aiden2018 wrote:
Is Clone in the final version?
It would be really cool if they stole the joke from the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook for Clone.
What was that? Did they have it listed twice or something?
I don't think that was clone. It was deja vu. I don't think that was clone.

Yeah, but the joke would fit clone as well.


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Staffan Johansson wrote:
Anguish wrote:
Mechalibur wrote:
Staffan Johansson wrote:
Aiden2018 wrote:
Is Clone in the final version?
It would be really cool if they stole the joke from the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook for Clone.
What was that? Did they have it listed twice or something?
I don't think that was clone. It was deja vu. I don't think that was clone.
Yeah, but the joke would fit clone as well.

Wooosh.

Also... wooosh.


I'm intrigued that Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally have gone away, and been replaced by more specific Summon X spells that now allow you to pick any published Bestiary monster with the appropriate tag (dragon, animal, celestial, fiend, entity, etc.) and appropriate level for your spell.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Duplicate Foe is there. It doesn't implode quite as fast.


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Xenocrat wrote:
I'm intrigued that Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally have gone away, and been replaced by more specific Summon X spells that now allow you to pick any published Bestiary monster with the appropriate tag (dragon, animal, celestial, fiend, entity, etc.) and appropriate level for your spell.

That is actually pretty cool and spares us from the PF1 problem that there are dozens of new monster of which not a single one is summonable even though they would perfectly fit...

(But to be hones I liked the Starfinder approach of the Modular Monster even more)


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Having Summon Fiend/Celestial as Divine only increases my desire for Summoner as a class to cover an arcane caster consorting with devils, etc- at least in combat.


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masda_gib wrote:
I would also say Antimagic Field is the rare spell. But only because I'm sure I read that info/speculation somewhere here or in a blog or on reddit already... but I can't remember where.

You are correct. it's odd to me, that wish is not even uncommon.


ikarinokami wrote:
masda_gib wrote:
I would also say Antimagic Field is the rare spell. But only because I'm sure I read that info/speculation somewhere here or in a blog or on reddit already... but I can't remember where.
You are correct. it's odd to me, that wish is not even uncommon.

That seems odd to me too! Are 10th level spells still unlocked via a Feat, or do you just get 'em now?

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Bardic Dave wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
masda_gib wrote:
I would also say Antimagic Field is the rare spell. But only because I'm sure I read that info/speculation somewhere here or in a blog or on reddit already... but I can't remember where.
You are correct. it's odd to me, that wish is not even uncommon.
That seems odd to me too! Are 10th level spells still unlocked via a Feat, or do you just get 'em now?

Just get them. In the glances I've made into spellcasters, at least on Cleric and Sorcerer, you get one 10th level slot at 19th level, and the only way to get another is with your 20th level feat. Sorcerer gets two 10th level spells to choose from.

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Cydeth wrote:
Bardic Dave wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
masda_gib wrote:
I would also say Antimagic Field is the rare spell. But only because I'm sure I read that info/speculation somewhere here or in a blog or on reddit already... but I can't remember where.
You are correct. it's odd to me, that wish is not even uncommon.
That seems odd to me too! Are 10th level spells still unlocked via a Feat, or do you just get 'em now?
Just get them. In the glances I've made into spellcasters, at least on Cleric and Sorcerer, you get one 10th level slot at 19th level, and the only way to get another is with your 20th level feat. Sorcerer gets two 10th level spells to choose from.

So they do get the spell for free in addition to the slot? In the Playtest they got the slot but didn’t automatically get the spell without spending the feat.

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Rysky wrote:
So they do get the spell for free in addition to the slot? In the Playtest they got the slot but didn’t automatically get the spell without spending the feat.

The sorcerer gets 2 common 10th level spells at 19th level. As far as I can tell, that is it.

Silver Crusade

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Cydeth wrote:
Rysky wrote:
So they do get the spell for free in addition to the slot? In the Playtest they got the slot but didn’t automatically get the spell without spending the feat.
The sorcerer gets 2 common 10th level spells at 19th level. As far as I can tell, that is it.

Cool.


Have the 'hand' spells returned at all? I want to smack guys with big magical hands


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Albatoonoe wrote:
Have the 'hand' spells returned at all? I want to smack guys with big magical hands

Sorry, no sign of them. :(


It is disappointing that my favourite spell - Pyrotechnics - has been removed.


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Cydeth wrote:
Bardic Dave wrote:
ikarinokami wrote:
masda_gib wrote:
I would also say Antimagic Field is the rare spell. But only because I'm sure I read that info/speculation somewhere here or in a blog or on reddit already... but I can't remember where.
You are correct. it's odd to me, that wish is not even uncommon.
That seems odd to me too! Are 10th level spells still unlocked via a Feat, or do you just get 'em now?
Just get them. In the glances I've made into spellcasters, at least on Cleric and Sorcerer, you get one 10th level slot at 19th level, and the only way to get another is with your 20th level feat. Sorcerer gets two 10th level spells to choose from.

wish is a well known spell....a superstar of spells....every young arcane caster dreams of one day casting that spell.

that is why it's not uncommon


Mekkis wrote:
It is disappointing that my favourite spell - Pyrotechnics - has been removed.

It could still make it into a later book. Hang in there buddy.


Xenocrat wrote:
I'm intrigued that Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally have gone away, and been replaced by more specific Summon X spells that now allow you to pick any published Bestiary monster with the appropriate tag (dragon, animal, celestial, fiend, entity, etc.) and appropriate level for your spell.

That is interesting. It means players will get to appreciate how fun the new monsters statblocks are too. Does it work for any monster or just common ones?


Captain Morgan wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I'm intrigued that Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally have gone away, and been replaced by more specific Summon X spells that now allow you to pick any published Bestiary monster with the appropriate tag (dragon, animal, celestial, fiend, entity, etc.) and appropriate level for your spell.
That is interesting. It means players will get to appreciate how fun the new monsters statblocks are too. Does it work for any monster or just common ones?

That's a really good question! I hope it's not all of them.


Xenocrat wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
I'm intrigued that Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally have gone away, and been replaced by more specific Summon X spells that now allow you to pick any published Bestiary monster with the appropriate tag (dragon, animal, celestial, fiend, entity, etc.) and appropriate level for your spell.
That is interesting. It means players will get to appreciate how fun the new monsters statblocks are too. Does it work for any monster or just common ones?
That's a really good question! I hope it's not all of them.

I would make the assumption it would be just the common ones / the need to have seen, or have somewhat in-depth knowledge of the uncommon ones in order to be able to summon them (either through research and/or use of the appropriate knowledge skill.) EDIT= At least given how uncommon (even rare spells) can still be learned, but are not automatic, and require additional steps.


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ikarinokami wrote:
masda_gib wrote:
I would also say Antimagic Field is the rare spell. But only because I'm sure I read that info/speculation somewhere here or in a blog or on reddit already... but I can't remember where.
You are correct. it's odd to me, that wish is not even uncommon.

I think the thing specific to AMF is "nobody who knows this wants anybody else to know it", since they are acutely aware of how it could be turned against them, and so are actively interested in preventing its dissemination.

Wish is the sort of thing that everybody at the height of arcane power just invents organically a la "now I can make my will into reality." Wish isn't objectively powerful (it's a 10th level spell that can replicate 9th level spells) it's just incredibly versatile. Presumsably there are a great number of especially powerful 10th level spells that were the crowning achievement of some archmage which are rare or unique (does unique represent "there is currently only one copy" not just "there can only be one copy"?) which do things wish can't.


Feros wrote:
Albatoonoe wrote:
Have the 'hand' spells returned at all? I want to smack guys with big magical hands
Sorry, no sign of them. :(

Ah man, bummer. Hopefully they make it in soon.

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