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I'm not flowing your logic on this. There was nothing in pf1 that suggested a divine connection for the outer planar bloodlines or the undead one. Just who your ancestors were bedding, bargaining with or being experimented on by.
I doubt anyone would have batted an eye if undead had been an arcane bloodline. Just thought, 'oh, liches, right' and moved on.
In PF1, Knowledge Religion covered knowledge about undead. Also, clerics had the most spells and options to create or handle undead. Generally, undeath had religios tones with desecrated places giving rise to them and them being a disturbance in the flow of souls/life force.
So Undead being tied to Divine makes perfect sense.I'm more surprised that Infernal and Abyssal all are Divine bloodlines. But I guess they just went with "all outer planes outsider bloodlines are divine".
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Can dwarves get bonuses vs spells and spell like abilities without taking a big penalty? In the playtest they had to take a penalty to resonance to get that.
Bumping this question
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My shipment is out for delivery!!
Was the summoned trait improved since the playtest?
Are there more than 3 summon monster options per spell level or more than one summoning spell?
Are summoned creature levels still limited to (spell level*2-5)?
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I'm not flowing your logic on this. There was nothing in pf1 that suggested a divine connection for the outer planar bloodlines or the undead one. Just who your ancestors were bedding, bargaining with or being experimented on by.
I doubt anyone would have batted an eye if undead had been an arcane bloodline. Just thought, 'oh, liches, right' and moved on.
In PF1, Knowledge Religion covered knowledge about undead. Also, clerics had the most spells and options to create or handle undead. Generally, undeath had religios tones with desecrated places giving rise to them and them being a disturbance in the flow of souls/life force.
So Undead being tied to Divine makes perfect sense.I'm more surprised that Infernal and Abyssal all are Divine bloodlines. But I guess they just went with "all outer planes outsider bloodlines are divine".
I don't pretend to understand the distinctions between different types of planes, but it's easier than that. Angels, demons, and devils are also pretty inextricably religion-themed. Other types of outsiders (elementals) obviously can have different lists, and likely will outside of the core rulebook. A rakshasa bloodline (one was in Ultimate Magic) seems unlikely to be divine, for instance.
Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.
So you did. I think I saw the word necromancy and filtered it out, ha ha. Are there any ancestry feats for improving magical defenses in some way?
In pf1e, dwarves with the steel soul feat and the glory of old trait were one of my favorite things. It would be a bummer if you can't replicate that feeling in Pf2.
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Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.
So the Ancient Blooded dwarf from the Playtest update is gone?
On page 511, there is a character wealth table, can you explain “lump sum”? Does it mean a character can have coin and items or just coin. For example, a 3rd level guy starts with one 2nd lvl and two 1st lvl items and 25 GP... or 75 GP total.
Was the summoned trait improved since the playtest?
Are there more than 3 summon monster options per spell level or more than one summoning spell?
Are summoned creature levels still limited to (spell level*2-5)?All the Summon Monster spells can be Heightened to increase the level of monster that they can bring.
There is Summon Animal, Construct, Fey, and Plant/Fungus at 1, Elemental at 2, Celestial, Dragon, Entity, Fiend, and Giant at 5.
Different classes have Focus spells that can alter their Summons.
Summon spells for different thematic monster groups? That I like. :)
Shorter lists to search through when casting and some identity and restriction for a given caster who has to chose which spell they know.
Exciting!! Did you pay extra for expedited shipping? (Just trying to work out if I should allow my overhyped emotions to anticipate my books in the next few days or not)So living near Paizo means the street date doesn't apply to you? I'm confused (and jealous.)Well I live half way around the world from Paizo in the UK and mine arrived this morning. Couldn't believe it as I was expecting it towards the end of August with shipping, so I'm just a tad chuffed at the moment.
Haven't had time to do anything but crack the CRB open and inhale the "new book" smell though because it arrived as I left for work.
Nope. Just the standard stuff.
Can you let me know when yours was shipped? I'm in the Channel Islands so I can expect it to take an extra 3 days longer than a UK shipment.Not sure, but they took payment on 13 July so probably then? So 5 days to reach me which is impressive.
Hmm... They took my payment on Monday and UPS is tracking for a Monday, 22 July delivery, which would mark mine as arriving 7 days after charging and I am in Arizona. I'm hoping UPS is being conservative in their delivery estimate and that the books will arrive on Saturday, which would be 5 days for me.
There is Summon Animal, Construct, Fey, and Plant/Fungus at 1, Elemental at 2, Celestial, Dragon, Entity, Fiend, and Giant at 5.
You mean as separate spells or just list creature types from the summon monster/ally list? Entity in particular sounds quite promising!
Different classes have Focus spells that can alter their Summons.
Technically it is as per playtest but there were only 2 of those I think - Augment Summoning and Primal Summons... I hope there are more now!
On page 511, there is a character wealth table, can you explain “lump sum”? Does it mean a character can have coin and items or just coin. For example, a 3rd level guy starts with one 2nd lvl and two 1st lvl items and 25 GP... or 75 GP total.
I'm fairly certain that the Lump Sum column indicates the total value that a character of that level is supposed to have. In other words, if you want your players to pick out their items from scratch, you just give them the Lump Sum to work with rather than the stuff from the Permanent Items and Currency columns.
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Was the summoned trait improved since the playtest?
Are there more than 3 summon monster options per spell level or more than one summoning spell?
Are summoned creature levels still limited to (spell level*2-5)?All the Summon Monster spells can be Heightened to increase the level of monster that they can bring.
There is Summon Animal, Construct, Fey, and Plant/Fungus at 1, Elemental at 2, Celestial, Dragon, Entity, Fiend, and Giant at 5.
Different classes have Focus spells that can alter their Summons.
Oh this sounds really cool. What sort of Focus spells are we talking? Are they 1 action to cast?
Sorry, no. It's there. I was just blind and completely jumping over that entry. As a reaction, you can get a +1 to a saving throw and it lasts until end of turn.Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.So the Ancient Blooded dwarf from the Playtest update is gone?
Phew. It's not a +5 or even a +2, but in the new math I'll settle for it. Fingers crossed there will be a way to boost it in the future as you alluded to.
The Inevitables have joined the Aeons.
Did the Proteans get the same treatment?
Kinda sad Inevitables are not in the Bestiary. They are by far my favorite outsiders.
On page 511, there is a character wealth table, can you explain “lump sum”? Does it mean a character can have coin and items or just coin. For example, a 3rd level guy starts with one 2nd lvl and two 1st lvl items and 25 GP... or 75 GP total.Correct. GMs have the option of either giving the cash and letting players buy whatever, with the limit that the maximum item level is (Character Level - 1) or they can that the Permanent Items + smaller amount of Cash as you show in your example.
The Lump sum is less than the value of the permanent items + cash because it allows players to select a higher ratio of high level items.
Nice!
I am guessing there is still a DM treasure distribution table for rewarding during play and the table on 511 is just for starting character wealth at higher levels.
With sorcerers pulling from all four magic sources + so many sorcerer bloodlines falling into the divine magic source + oracles being spontaneous casters, I wonder if PF2 Oracles will be adapted as sorcerer feats or a multiclass archetype rather than a full class on its own?
Although I like the PF1 Oracle class, since a lot of PF2 design philosophy seems to embrace the goal of leaving open lots of new design space, I think I'd be cool with that approach.
Other way, Aeons are now LN.The Inevitables have joined the Aeons.
Did the Proteans get the same treatment?
Kinda sad Inevitables are not in the Bestiary. They are by far my favorite outsiders.
Interesting. I suppose that makes some sense.
Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?
With sorcerers pulling from all four magic sources + so many sorcerer bloodlines falling into the divine magic source + oracles being spontaneous casters, I wonder if PF2 Oracles will be adapted as sorcerer feats or a multiclass archetype rather than a full class on its own?
Although I like the PF1 Oracle class, since a lot of PF2 design philosophy seems to embrace the goal of leaving open lots of new design space, I think I'd be cool with that approach.
I think the oracle will still be its own class. I expect that additional bloodlines from the next few books will be light on divine to balance out the options over time.
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Other way, Aeons are now LN.The Inevitables have joined the Aeons.
Did the Proteans get the same treatment?
Kinda sad Inevitables are not in the Bestiary. They are by far my favorite outsiders.
Interesting. I suppose that makes some sense.
Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?
Psychopomps.
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Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?
Aren't Psychopomps the neutral outsiders?
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I think the oracle will still be its own class. I expect that additional bloodlines from the next few books will be light on divine to balance out the options over time.With sorcerers pulling from all four magic sources + so many sorcerer bloodlines falling into the divine magic source + oracles being spontaneous casters, I wonder if PF2 Oracles will be adapted as sorcerer feats or a multiclass archetype rather than a full class on its own?
Although I like the PF1 Oracle class, since a lot of PF2 design philosophy seems to embrace the goal of leaving open lots of new design space, I think I'd be cool with that approach.
^ The Oracle with their Curse and Mysteries has enough to stand on it's own as a Divine Spontaneous Caster and be Distinct from Divine Sorcerers.
Just like Witches and their Hexes have enough to stand as their own with Prepared Occult casting.
Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?Aren't Psychopomps the neutral outsiders?
What the f?@& is a Psychopomp? I must have missed their release.
Gotta say not crazy about the name lol
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Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?Aren't Psychopomps the neutral outsiders?What the f?@& is a Psychopomp? I must have missed their release.
Gotta say not crazy about the name lol
It’s a real world term. They’re the guides for souls and general servants of Pharasma and/or the flow of souls.
Psychopomps were introduced in Shattered Star, I believe. They were compiled in Bestiary 4.
Are there any NPCs in the Bestiary? Soldier, assassin, wizard, that sort of thing beyond just monsters?
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I'm not flowing your logic on this. There was nothing in pf1 that suggested a divine connection for the outer planar bloodlines or the undead one. Just who your ancestors were bedding, bargaining with or being experimented on by.
Sure, but Celestials and Fiends are pretty heavily identified with the Divine list (the Succubus in PF2 explicitly uses Divine spells), and in PF2 identified with the Religion skill, the latter of which is also true of undead (and the Divine and Occult lists are the two that deal with soul stuff as well).
PF2 has defined those creature types as identified strongly with the Divine list, and done so for good thematic reasons. Changing that for something as temporary as number of bloodlines per list in the core rulebook would be a bad decision.
And yet, even having them defined that way, they wanted to maintain the Bloodline list from PF1 (for the most part anyway).
I doubt anyone would have batted an eye if undead had been an arcane bloodline. Just thought, 'oh, liches, right' and moved on.
Sure, but it would've been a lot less consistent with every other type of undead.
I'm impressed with changes to cantrips and spell formats in general. Having the spell lists in the spell descriptions saves a lot of wasted time flipping back and forth.
Yeah, a lot of the formatting changes look super great.
What the f?@& is a Psychopomp? I must have missed their release.
Gotta say not crazy about the name lol
They're associated with Pharasma and the Boneyard, and the proper completion of the cycle of death and souls. They're fairly cool, and it's a real word that describes them pretty well.
I feel like the "only true neutral outsiders are Pyschopomps" thing models how Pharasma's operation occupies the entire true neutral plane. I think the only deity who has their divine realm there who isn't part of Pharasma's operation is Achaekek (who presumably is being granted safe harbor because Pharasma knows he is fated to complete some assassinatione which would make him unpopular on all the other planes.)
Are there any NPCs in the Bestiary? Soldier, assassin, wizard, that sort of thing beyond just monsters?Don't see any
:(
Thanks for the reply!
