Someone Living Near Paizo Has the PF2 Books and Is Answering Questions and Posting Photos


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Voss wrote:

I'm not flowing your logic on this. There was nothing in pf1 that suggested a divine connection for the outer planar bloodlines or the undead one. Just who your ancestors were bedding, bargaining with or being experimented on by.

I doubt anyone would have batted an eye if undead had been an arcane bloodline. Just thought, 'oh, liches, right' and moved on.

In PF1, Knowledge Religion covered knowledge about undead. Also, clerics had the most spells and options to create or handle undead. Generally, undeath had religios tones with desecrated places giving rise to them and them being a disturbance in the flow of souls/life force.

So Undead being tied to Divine makes perfect sense.

I'm more surprised that Infernal and Abyssal all are Divine bloodlines. But I guess they just went with "all outer planes outsider bloodlines are divine".


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Seisho wrote:
One question about the bestiary - are there guidelines for monster building?

There's information on adjusting existing ones to be weaker or stronger, but no rules on creating a new creature whole cloth.


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caps wrote:
Can dwarves get bonuses vs spells and spell like abilities without taking a big penalty? In the playtest they had to take a penalty to resonance to get that.

Bumping this question


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Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.


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My shipment is out for delivery!!

Scarab Sages

Speaking of Necromancy,

How does Undead Creation work now and are there any specializations for those who want to prioritize that kind of build?


Was the summoned trait improved since the playtest?
Are there more than 3 summon monster options per spell level or more than one summoning spell?
Are summoned creature levels still limited to (spell level*2-5)?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Derry L. Zimeye wrote:
I have but a single question! Is Hunt Prey any different to Hunt Target? Is Hunter's Edge still a separate class feature, or has that been rolled together? If not, is there any way for Multiclass Rangers to get the benefits of Hunter's Edge?

Hunt Prey and Hunter's Edge are separate abilities. I don't see the ability to get Hunter's Edge as a multiclass.


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masda_gib wrote:
Voss wrote:

I'm not flowing your logic on this. There was nothing in pf1 that suggested a divine connection for the outer planar bloodlines or the undead one. Just who your ancestors were bedding, bargaining with or being experimented on by.

I doubt anyone would have batted an eye if undead had been an arcane bloodline. Just thought, 'oh, liches, right' and moved on.

In PF1, Knowledge Religion covered knowledge about undead. Also, clerics had the most spells and options to create or handle undead. Generally, undeath had religios tones with desecrated places giving rise to them and them being a disturbance in the flow of souls/life force.

So Undead being tied to Divine makes perfect sense.

I'm more surprised that Infernal and Abyssal all are Divine bloodlines. But I guess they just went with "all outer planes outsider bloodlines are divine".

I don't pretend to understand the distinctions between different types of planes, but it's easier than that. Angels, demons, and devils are also pretty inextricably religion-themed. Other types of outsiders (elementals) obviously can have different lists, and likely will outside of the core rulebook. A rakshasa bloodline (one was in Ultimate Magic) seems unlikely to be divine, for instance.


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Vigmortis wrote:

Speaking of Necromancy,

How does Undead Creation work now and are there any specializations for those who want to prioritize that kind of build?

Clerics have Feats and Spells that allow them to command and control Undead.

Create Undead is a ritual.


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BishopMcQ wrote:
Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.

So you did. I think I saw the word necromancy and filtered it out, ha ha. Are there any ancestry feats for improving magical defenses in some way?

In pf1e, dwarves with the steel soul feat and the glory of old trait were one of my favorite things. It would be a bummer if you can't replicate that feeling in Pf2.


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CyberMephit wrote:

Was the summoned trait improved since the playtest?

Are there more than 3 summon monster options per spell level or more than one summoning spell?
Are summoned creature levels still limited to (spell level*2-5)?

All the Summon Monster spells can be Heightened to increase the level of monster that they can bring.

There is Summon Animal, Construct, Fey, and Plant/Fungus at 1, Elemental at 2, Celestial, Dragon, Entity, Fiend, and Giant at 5.

Different classes have Focus spells that can alter their Summons.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
caps wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:
Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.

So you did. I think I saw the word necromancy and filtered it out, ha ha. Are there any ancestry feats for improving magical defenses in some way?

In pf1e, dwarves with the steel soul feat and the glory of old trait were one of my favorite things. It would be a bummer if you can't replicate that feeling in Pf2.

I don't see any like that, but this is just the Core Rulebook. I'd imagine the new Advanced Player's Guide or such may have things. The Lost Omens guide may also have something. I plan on getting that from my FLGS.


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BishopMcQ wrote:
Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.

So the Ancient Blooded dwarf from the Playtest update is gone?


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First World Bard wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:
Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.
So the Ancient Blooded dwarf from the Playtest update is gone?

Sorry, no. It's there. I was just blind and completely jumping over that entry. As a reaction, you can get a +1 to a saving throw and it lasts until end of turn.


On page 511, there is a character wealth table, can you explain “lump sum”? Does it mean a character can have coin and items or just coin. For example, a 3rd level guy starts with one 2nd lvl and two 1st lvl items and 25 GP... or 75 GP total.


BishopMcQ wrote:
CyberMephit wrote:

Was the summoned trait improved since the playtest?

Are there more than 3 summon monster options per spell level or more than one summoning spell?
Are summoned creature levels still limited to (spell level*2-5)?

All the Summon Monster spells can be Heightened to increase the level of monster that they can bring.

There is Summon Animal, Construct, Fey, and Plant/Fungus at 1, Elemental at 2, Celestial, Dragon, Entity, Fiend, and Giant at 5.

Different classes have Focus spells that can alter their Summons.

Summon spells for different thematic monster groups? That I like. :)

Shorter lists to search through when casting and some identity and restriction for a given caster who has to chose which spell they know.

Scarab Sages

BishopMcQ wrote:
Vigmortis wrote:

Speaking of Necromancy,

How does Undead Creation work now and are there any specializations for those who want to prioritize that kind of build?

Clerics have Feats and Spells that allow them to command and control Undead.

Create Undead is a ritual.

Thanks!!! No sign of anything for our Wizard friend? Or would that be too much to say ?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
GougedEye wrote:
Ngodrup wrote:
GougedEye wrote:
AnCap Dawg wrote:
So living near Paizo means the street date doesn't apply to you? I'm confused (and jealous.)

Well I live half way around the world from Paizo in the UK and mine arrived this morning. Couldn't believe it as I was expecting it towards the end of August with shipping, so I'm just a tad chuffed at the moment.

Haven't had time to do anything but crack the CRB open and inhale the "new book" smell though because it arrived as I left for work.

Exciting!! Did you pay extra for expedited shipping? (Just trying to work out if I should allow my overhyped emotions to anticipate my books in the next few days or not)

Nope. Just the standard stuff.

Malk_Content wrote:
Can you let me know when yours was shipped? I'm in the Channel Islands so I can expect it to take an extra 3 days longer than a UK shipment.
Not sure, but they took payment on 13 July so probably then? So 5 days to reach me which is impressive.

Hmm... They took my payment on Monday and UPS is tracking for a Monday, 22 July delivery, which would mark mine as arriving 7 days after charging and I am in Arizona. I'm hoping UPS is being conservative in their delivery estimate and that the books will arrive on Saturday, which would be 5 days for me.


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Darkwynters wrote:
On page 511, there is a character wealth table, can you explain “lump sum”? Does it mean a character can have coin and items or just coin. For example, a 3rd level guy starts with one 2nd lvl and two 1st lvl items and 25 GP... or 75 GP total.

Correct. GMs have the option of either giving the cash and letting players buy whatever, with the limit that the maximum item level is (Character Level - 1) or they can that the Permanent Items + smaller amount of Cash as you show in your example.

The Lump sum is less than the value of the permanent items + cash because it allows players to select a higher ratio of high level items.


BishopMcQ wrote:


There is Summon Animal, Construct, Fey, and Plant/Fungus at 1, Elemental at 2, Celestial, Dragon, Entity, Fiend, and Giant at 5.

You mean as separate spells or just list creature types from the summon monster/ally list? Entity in particular sounds quite promising!

BishopMcQ wrote:


Different classes have Focus spells that can alter their Summons.

Technically it is as per playtest but there were only 2 of those I think - Augment Summoning and Primal Summons... I hope there are more now!


Darkwynters wrote:
On page 511, there is a character wealth table, can you explain “lump sum”? Does it mean a character can have coin and items or just coin. For example, a 3rd level guy starts with one 2nd lvl and two 1st lvl items and 25 GP... or 75 GP total.

I'm fairly certain that the Lump Sum column indicates the total value that a character of that level is supposed to have. In other words, if you want your players to pick out their items from scratch, you just give them the Lump Sum to work with rather than the stuff from the Permanent Items and Currency columns.

The Exchange

BishopMcQ wrote:
CyberMephit wrote:

Was the summoned trait improved since the playtest?

Are there more than 3 summon monster options per spell level or more than one summoning spell?
Are summoned creature levels still limited to (spell level*2-5)?

All the Summon Monster spells can be Heightened to increase the level of monster that they can bring.

There is Summon Animal, Construct, Fey, and Plant/Fungus at 1, Elemental at 2, Celestial, Dragon, Entity, Fiend, and Giant at 5.

Different classes have Focus spells that can alter their Summons.

Oh this sounds really cool. What sort of Focus spells are we talking? Are they 1 action to cast?


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BishopMcQ wrote:
First World Bard wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:
Caps - I answered that a little while ago. There is a Heritage to give bonuses against Necromancy, but not spells and spell like abilities in general.
So the Ancient Blooded dwarf from the Playtest update is gone?
Sorry, no. It's there. I was just blind and completely jumping over that entry. As a reaction, you can get a +1 to a saving throw and it lasts until end of turn.

Phew. It's not a +5 or even a +2, but in the new math I'll settle for it. Fingers crossed there will be a way to boost it in the future as you alluded to.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Vigmortis wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:
Vigmortis wrote:

Speaking of Necromancy,

How does Undead Creation work now and are there any specializations for those who want to prioritize that kind of build?

Clerics have Feats and Spells that allow them to command and control Undead.

Create Undead is a ritual.

Thanks!!! No sign of anything for our Wizard friend? Or would that be too much to say ?

Wizards also have spells to control them, but I don't see any class feats that focus on it.


BishopMcQ wrote:

The Inevitables have joined the Aeons.

Did the Proteans get the same treatment?

Kinda sad Inevitables are not in the Bestiary. They are by far my favorite outsiders.

Scarab Sages

BishopMcQ wrote:
Vigmortis wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:
Vigmortis wrote:

Speaking of Necromancy,

How does Undead Creation work now and are there any specializations for those who want to prioritize that kind of build?

Clerics have Feats and Spells that allow them to command and control Undead.

Create Undead is a ritual.

Thanks!!! No sign of anything for our Wizard friend? Or would that be too much to say ?

Wizards also have spells to control them, but I don't see any class feats that focus on it.

Hmmmmm my only guess would be under their Necromancy School powers or feats if any...if not no worries I'm satisfied with this information.

Silver Crusade

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Midnightoker wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:

The Inevitables have joined the Aeons.

Did the Proteans get the same treatment?

Kinda sad Inevitables are not in the Bestiary. They are by far my favorite outsiders.

Other way, Aeons are now LN.

Silver Crusade

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Thankies for answering questions btw!


BishopMcQ wrote:
Darkwynters wrote:
On page 511, there is a character wealth table, can you explain “lump sum”? Does it mean a character can have coin and items or just coin. For example, a 3rd level guy starts with one 2nd lvl and two 1st lvl items and 25 GP... or 75 GP total.

Correct. GMs have the option of either giving the cash and letting players buy whatever, with the limit that the maximum item level is (Character Level - 1) or they can that the Permanent Items + smaller amount of Cash as you show in your example.

The Lump sum is less than the value of the permanent items + cash because it allows players to select a higher ratio of high level items.

Nice!

I am guessing there is still a DM treasure distribution table for rewarding during play and the table on 511 is just for starting character wealth at higher levels.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

With sorcerers pulling from all four magic sources + so many sorcerer bloodlines falling into the divine magic source + oracles being spontaneous casters, I wonder if PF2 Oracles will be adapted as sorcerer feats or a multiclass archetype rather than a full class on its own?

Although I like the PF1 Oracle class, since a lot of PF2 design philosophy seems to embrace the goal of leaving open lots of new design space, I think I'd be cool with that approach.


Rysky wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:

The Inevitables have joined the Aeons.

Did the Proteans get the same treatment?

Kinda sad Inevitables are not in the Bestiary. They are by far my favorite outsiders.

Other way, Aeons are now LN.

Interesting. I suppose that makes some sense.

Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?


BPorter wrote:

With sorcerers pulling from all four magic sources + so many sorcerer bloodlines falling into the divine magic source + oracles being spontaneous casters, I wonder if PF2 Oracles will be adapted as sorcerer feats or a multiclass archetype rather than a full class on its own?

Although I like the PF1 Oracle class, since a lot of PF2 design philosophy seems to embrace the goal of leaving open lots of new design space, I think I'd be cool with that approach.

I think the oracle will still be its own class. I expect that additional bloodlines from the next few books will be light on divine to balance out the options over time.

Sovereign Court

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Midnightoker wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:

The Inevitables have joined the Aeons.

Did the Proteans get the same treatment?

Kinda sad Inevitables are not in the Bestiary. They are by far my favorite outsiders.

Other way, Aeons are now LN.

Interesting. I suppose that makes some sense.

Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?

Psychopomps.


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Rigmortis - Necromancy as a Wizard talks about being reviled because of it's links to creating undead, but focuses on the control of Life force to heal/harm.

Midnightoker - The Kolyarut are listed in the Bestiary, they are just grouped with the Aeons.

Darkwynters - Yes, p 509-510 discuss rewards, and Party treasure by level.


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Midnightoker wrote:
Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?

Aren't Psychopomps the neutral outsiders?

Silver Crusade

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GM OfAnything wrote:
BPorter wrote:

With sorcerers pulling from all four magic sources + so many sorcerer bloodlines falling into the divine magic source + oracles being spontaneous casters, I wonder if PF2 Oracles will be adapted as sorcerer feats or a multiclass archetype rather than a full class on its own?

Although I like the PF1 Oracle class, since a lot of PF2 design philosophy seems to embrace the goal of leaving open lots of new design space, I think I'd be cool with that approach.

I think the oracle will still be its own class. I expect that additional bloodlines from the next few books will be light on divine to balance out the options over time.

^ The Oracle with their Curse and Mysteries has enough to stand on it's own as a Divine Spontaneous Caster and be Distinct from Divine Sorcerers.

Just like Witches and their Hexes have enough to stand as their own with Prepared Occult casting.

Scarab Sages

Ah I see ok thanks my friend.

Silver Crusade

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Are the Lamia or Hags (or what they changed them to) in the Bestiary?


KingOfNinjas wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?
Aren't Psychopomps the neutral outsiders?

What the f?@& is a Psychopomp? I must have missed their release.

Gotta say not crazy about the name lol


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Midnightoker wrote:
KingOfNinjas wrote:
Midnightoker wrote:
Then we are back to no true Neutral Outsiders again yes?
Aren't Psychopomps the neutral outsiders?

What the f?@& is a Psychopomp? I must have missed their release.

Gotta say not crazy about the name lol

It’s a real world term. They’re the guides for souls and general servants of Pharasma and/or the flow of souls.


Psychopomps were introduced in Shattered Star, I believe. They were compiled in Bestiary 4.


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Rysky wrote:
Are the Lamia or Hags (or what they changed them to) in the Bestiary?

Both are in the Bestiary


Are there any NPCs in the Bestiary? Soldier, assassin, wizard, that sort of thing beyond just monsters?

Silver Crusade

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BishopMcQ wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Are the Lamia or Hags (or what they changed them to) in the Bestiary?
Both are in the Bestiary

Yay! Thankies.

Liberty's Edge

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Voss wrote:
I'm not flowing your logic on this. There was nothing in pf1 that suggested a divine connection for the outer planar bloodlines or the undead one. Just who your ancestors were bedding, bargaining with or being experimented on by.

Sure, but Celestials and Fiends are pretty heavily identified with the Divine list (the Succubus in PF2 explicitly uses Divine spells), and in PF2 identified with the Religion skill, the latter of which is also true of undead (and the Divine and Occult lists are the two that deal with soul stuff as well).

PF2 has defined those creature types as identified strongly with the Divine list, and done so for good thematic reasons. Changing that for something as temporary as number of bloodlines per list in the core rulebook would be a bad decision.

And yet, even having them defined that way, they wanted to maintain the Bloodline list from PF1 (for the most part anyway).

Voss wrote:
I doubt anyone would have batted an eye if undead had been an arcane bloodline. Just thought, 'oh, liches, right' and moved on.

Sure, but it would've been a lot less consistent with every other type of undead.

Voss wrote:
I'm impressed with changes to cantrips and spell formats in general. Having the spell lists in the spell descriptions saves a lot of wasted time flipping back and forth.

Yeah, a lot of the formatting changes look super great.

Midnightoker wrote:

What the f?@& is a Psychopomp? I must have missed their release.

Gotta say not crazy about the name lol

They're associated with Pharasma and the Boneyard, and the proper completion of the cycle of death and souls. They're fairly cool, and it's a real word that describes them pretty well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Duskreign wrote:
Are there any NPCs in the Bestiary? Soldier, assassin, wizard, that sort of thing beyond just monsters?

Don't see any


I feel like the "only true neutral outsiders are Pyschopomps" thing models how Pharasma's operation occupies the entire true neutral plane. I think the only deity who has their divine realm there who isn't part of Pharasma's operation is Achaekek (who presumably is being granted safe harbor because Pharasma knows he is fated to complete some assassinatione which would make him unpopular on all the other planes.)


BishopMcQ wrote:
Duskreign wrote:
Are there any NPCs in the Bestiary? Soldier, assassin, wizard, that sort of thing beyond just monsters?
Don't see any

:(

Thanks for the reply!

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Did the hippogriff make it into the bestiary?

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