What can make alignments change - overnight?


Advice


It's just a crazy idea, but - what if a group of the worst villains suddenly found themselves with empathy, love, and caring for their fellow man?

What if this group of horrid monsters were the PCs?

It's just a concept for a single scenario or short campaign, but how does...or could...it start?


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Helm of Opposite Alignment can do it. It's the most straightforward way.


Claxon wrote:
Helm of Opposite Alignment can do it. It's the most straightforward way.

Ok...but...one for each of them? Hmmm.

Maybe a mischievous celestial with excellent stealth visiting each in turn, overnight?

It does the job, but does present challenges...


I was in a 2nd edition game where drinking water from a particular magic pond granted you a permanent bonus to wisdom and charisma and also shifted your alignment to Lawful Good. This ended up being a problem for my druid.

Another thought is to do a twist on the comic "the killing joke", the driving idea is that it only takes 1 bad day to make you become evil. Maybe this is true, and maybe 1 perfect day could make you become good.

for example:

They go to make trouble at a bar, but it's a holiday where everyone is super friendly, the drinks are practically free, and things just generally go their way.


EldonGuyre wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Helm of Opposite Alignment can do it. It's the most straightforward way.

Ok...but...one for each of them? Hmmm.

Maybe a mischievous celestial with excellent stealth visiting each in turn, overnight?

It does the job, but does present challenges...

There isn't an answer that isn't magical, and all of them are going to have similar problems.

If this is merely a plot set up tool it could be whatever you want. The main point is, there are already things like this that exist.


EldonGuyre wrote:

It's just a crazy idea, but - what if a group of the worst villains suddenly found themselves with empathy, love, and caring for their fellow man?

What if this group of horrid monsters were the PCs?

It's just a concept for a single scenario or short campaign, but how does...or could...it start?

So, the beings that would become PCs find themselves in a bind, surrounded by a hoard of demons and monsters that they have made their enemies (because evil is not all one big happy family). Then, a mysterious being offers them a deal that will allow them to escape their predicament. The PCs take the deal, and they escape.

It turns out, though, that the mysterious being was an angel, and the price of the angel's aid was that they get a conscience.


Claxon wrote:
EldonGuyre wrote:
Claxon wrote:
Helm of Opposite Alignment can do it. It's the most straightforward way.

Ok...but...one for each of them? Hmmm.

Maybe a mischievous celestial with excellent stealth visiting each in turn, overnight?

It does the job, but does present challenges...

There isn't an answer that isn't magical, and all of them are going to have similar problems.

If this is merely a plot set up tool it could be whatever you want. The main point is, there are already things like this that exist.

Definitely agreed, and don't think I don't appreciate the idea. I'm just working with it to see what sort of conclusions I come up with.

Just looking at pros and cons. Yes, magic is definitely required, and not a simple temporary magic, either.


I read a neat little story a while back about an ogre who found an intelligent LG sword that "tempted" him to do good things, eventually culminating in him saving a village from a flood and becoming a respected member of the community. That's a far cry from an overnight change, of course. I don't think there's a satisfying way to change someone's alignment that fast, in either direction. A geas that forces this evil party on a quest that will change them for the better is more likely to be believable.

Silver Crusade

I think I'd use Deific Curse. The group do something to REALLY piss off Shelyn or Desna or ..... and they are cursed to suddenly have a conscience, to remember everything evil they've ever done and need to atone for it.

Very similar to Angel in the Buffy show if you watched that


Atonement wrote:
Redemption or Temptation: You may cast this spell upon a creature of an opposing alignment in order to offer it a chance to change its alignment to match yours. The prospective subject must be present for the entire casting process. Upon completion of the spell, the subject freely chooses whether it retains its original alignment or acquiesces to your offer and changes to your alignment. No duress, compulsion, or magical influence can force the subject to take advantage of the opportunity offered if it is unwilling to abandon its old alignment. This use of the spell does not work on outsiders or any creature incapable of changing its alignment naturally.

While no duress, compulsion, or magical influence can be involved... it doesn't say you can't be drunk!


Honestly, just player or GM fiat is enough to change alignment. Or plot. Any reason really. As long as the character's actions match the new alignment and it doesn't get changed frequently it is fine.

In-game reasons: insanity, traumatic experience, very good experience, a moment of enlightenment, a very convincing sermon, an accumulation of experiences, a portent (like witnessing a meteor), the death of someone close. Suffering through and recovering from a disease or injury. Being exposed to new ideas (seeing a play, reading a book, drunken conversation, whispers in the darkness).

Oh, and magic of all kinds.


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There's an alchemist discovery which makes an elixir which does this IIRC.

Edit: the one which is permanent is a grand discovery i.e. a 20th level thing. Probably not helpful, never mind.


I do appreciate all of the input.

The idea is to create a scenario or three involving characters who'd been true villains up to the present time - I'm thinking eighth level - and then suddenly be changed. They would be powerful individuals working for a dark master, surrounded by lesser underlings, who would all be terrified of them, naturally.

They're all monsters or monstrous, at least, so even if they aren't recognized as tools of this great evil, good folks won't generally respond well to them.

A couple of example characters I'm considering:

A troll Bbn who was the muscle,
A skeletal champion necromancer that provided expendables,

...I'm hoping to build six or eight characters and making them available for quick play.


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Does it have to be that they are suddenly changed, or could it simply appear that way to them and have difficulties in accordance with such a perception? For example, their actual Alignment changes were a little more gradual due to the influence of someone looking to "save" them or a grand fall from power that forced them into relying on others. To protect their "saviour", they chose to block their memories of this period with multiple castings of Repress Memory. Having been setting up a new base of operations outside of their homelands, your group does not initially realize that more time has passed, nor that their memories have been altered, yet they slowly find clues as they progress in your scenario/short campaign.

Alternatively they could be forcibly affected by the aforementioned Helm of Opposite Alignment, then their assailant uses Repress Memory to protect their secret mission to convert powerful mortals to the side of Good ... If you want to arrange for them to inflict this alteration on themselves, the Helm is a Cursed byproduct of other Magic Items. Since you need to Succeed at a check to identify a Cursed Item, it is possible that the Helm appears to be an Hat of Disguise, Helm of Comprehend Language and Read Magic, or a Helm of Telepathy. Were they tricked? Were they powerful but awful at Crafting themselves? Was there a mass sale of sub-standard, minion supplied goods at the annual B.B.E.G. market?


All it takes is one bad day.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The Atonement spell has a function for exactly this purpose. If you seek redemption, it can make your alignment match that of the caster.

"Redemption or Temptation: You may cast this spell upon a creature of an opposing alignment in order to offer it a chance to change its alignment to match yours. The prospective subject must be present for the entire casting process. Upon completion of the spell, the subject freely chooses whether it retains its original alignment or acquiesces to your offer and changes to your alignment. No duress, compulsion, or magical influence can force the subject to take advantage of the opportunity offered if it is unwilling to abandon its old alignment. This use of the spell does not work on outsiders or any creature incapable of changing its alignment naturally."


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How about a poorly worded Wish?
"I wish to be better than all my enemies!"


Having children.


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Granting a creature with no ability to experience positive emotions a strong empathic connection to everyone around them, should do the trick.

For example, a young cheerful magician learns how to create a much stronger two way empathic link with and between everything he summons, it's stronger than he intends and, unknown to him, burns out their ability to feel on their own.

Upon the first summoning, the imp stands there blushing and confused as he's overwhelmed with the magician's excitement. The imp returns to his world and tells all the other lesser demons about this intense experience and they all line up to make a pact with this magician just to get the empathic connection, and then do everything they can to get their new master and each other to experience the most positive emotions they can imagine.

This magician lives in some distant plane and frequently summons groups of monsters to stop some evil across the planes. These demons are uncharacteristically charming, patient, kind, and helpful to one another and to everyone who isn't causing negative emotions to their link group or master.

But, of course, the magician has to be stopped. He's permanently burning out these creatures ability to feel their own emotions. So, it's up to a group of frankly evil creatures to tear apart this cult of joy and bring down the creator of happiness, before the magician summons them too.


A witch who made a Simulacrum of a Winter Hag to add to their coven can then make simulacrums of monsters. Part of the spell is absolute control of the created creature, and can change the alignment of the creature given time. The problem is the creature cannot level.

/cevah

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