Eidolon Rend ability with 4 claws


Rules Questions


Dear all

A player in my group is playing with a summoner and his Eidolon have the rend ability.

But recently he added 1 pair extra of claws and he is using the rend ability for extra damage 2 times in the round (Considering if he hits the 4 attacks).

In the monsters abilities is clear that the rend ability it only works 1 time in the round, but in the Eidolon ability text doesn't mention anything.

It works different these ability with Eidolon?

Thank you all


Rend triggers on two successful claw attacks in one round, i.e. on the second hit. The forth hit is not the second hit.

Sovereign Court

Derklord wrote:
Rend triggers on two successful claw attacks in one round, i.e. on the second hit. The forth hit is not the second hit.

The eidolon rend ability does not read the same as the ability from the monster rules.

Most notably, the monster ability says "two or more" and "no more than once per round", while the eidolon ability does not.

I'm not necessarily saying that it should trigger for each two hits with claws and I'm not saying it shouldn't. Just pointing out that the difference in wording should be noted and taken into account.

Monster Rend wrote:
If it hits with two or more natural attacks in 1 round, a creature with the rend special attack can cause tremendous damage by latching onto the opponent’s body and tearing flesh. This attack deals an additional amount of damage, but no more than once per round. The type of attacks that must hit and the additional damage are included in the creature’s description. The additional damage is usually equal to the damage caused by one of the attacks plus 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus.
Eidolon Rend wrote:
An eidolon learns to rip and tear the flesh of those it attacks with its claws, gaining the rend ability. Whenever the eidolon makes two successful claw attacks against the same target in 1 round, its claws latch onto the flesh and deal extra damage. This damage is equal to the damage dealt by one claw attack plus 1-1/2 times the eidolon’s Strength modifier. The eidolon must possess the claws evolution to select this evolution. The summoner must be at least 6th level before selecting this evolution.


Quote:
Whenever the eidolon makes two successful claw attacks against the same target in 1 round

I'd read that to be once per round per target.

Sovereign Court

Melkiador wrote:
I'd read that to be once per round per target.

I'm inclined to agree, but I can see how one would read it otherwise.


The wording may be different, but I doubt the intent is.

Rend is once per target per round, even if the Eidolon specific rules aren't as clear about it as the general monster rules. If the intention had been to allow Eidolon's rend to happen multiple times per round it would have said so more explicitly.

With regard to the specific wording of the Eidolon ability, it says whenever you make two successful claw attacks. The 3rd and 4th hits are not an additional set of "two successful claw attacks" they are a 3rd and 4th successful claw attack.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

For me, the key part is: "gaining the rend ability". The rend ability is described in the Bestiary.
The text after "gaining the rend ability gaining the rend ability" explain what are the differences between a monster rend ability and an Eidolon rend ability, but what isn't changed by that text work as the monster rend ability.

Sovereign Court

The differences I get between monster and eidolon rend wording are:

1) Eidolon rend only ever applies to claws, no other forms of natural attack
2) Monster rend can only happen once per round, regardless of how many attacks you have or how many things you hit
3) Eidolon rend can be done once per target per round if you have enough claws

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
ZᴇɴN wrote:

The differences I get between monster and eidolon rend wording are:

1) Eidolon rend only ever applies to claws, no other forms of natural attack
2) Monster rend can only happen once per round, regardless of how many attacks you have or how many things you hit
3) Eidolon rend can be done once per target per round if you have enough claws

That is how I read it, too.

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