Unarmed strike, Ogre Crush and Strength modifier to damage


Rules Questions


I'm building a custom ogre to throw at my players and I'm looking for some clarification as to how unarmed strike damage ought to be calculated.

An unarmed strike is "always considered a light weapon," and so my baseline understanding of how this works is as follows:

  • If you're just making one armed strike, it deals damage based on your size plus your full Strength modifier
  • If you're making multiple iterative unarmed strikes, again, each deals damage based on your size plus your full Strength modifier
  • If you're going two-fisted and 'dual wielding' your unarmed strikes, your main hand deals damage based on your size plus your full Strength modifier, while your off hand deals damage based on your size plus one-half of your Strength modifier

So far, so good?

Assuming an Ogre with a Strength of 25 (prerequisite for Ogre Crush) this means, barring any other modifiers, his unarmed strikes will deal 1d4+7 damage.

I'm asking for clarification because the Ogre Glutton from the Monster Codex (one of the example monsters I'm referring to when building my ogre) seems somehow to be getting 1.5 times his Strength modifier to his unarmed strikes, and I'm not entirely sure how that's being achieved:

  • Is there a class feature, feat, item, or other special ability elsewhere in the glutton's stat block that's enabling this?
  • Is this derived (possibly in error) from the idea that a creature with only one natural attack gains 1.5 times its Strength modifier when dealing damage with that attack? (yes, I know, unarmed strikes are not natural weapons, hence 'possibly in error')
  • Is this simply an error, and should the glutton's unarmed strike damage in fact be lower: 1d4+10 damage when raging, 1d4+8 otherwise?

I had a look through the Possible Monster Codex Errata thread and couldn't find reference to this being an error there, and I'm generally used to other denizens of the Paizo forums being sharper-eyed than I in these matters.

Lastly, the Ogre Crush feat increases the ogre's unarmed strike damage by one step when grappling smaller creatures (such as your typical Medium- or Small-sized PC), in this case from 1d4 to 1d6; and grants a Constrict attack dealing damage equal to either the ogre's unarmed strike damage or a Large creature's slam attack. The ogre doesn't have a slam attack, but if it did, it would be its only natural attack; should the damage dealt by Constrict to a Medum or smaller creature thus be:

  • 1d4+7, since Constrict damage "is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature’s melee attack," and in this case the ogre's melee attack is its unarmed strike
  • 1d6+7, since Constrict damage, basing the damage on an unarmed strike that's bumped up by one die size since a Medium creature is being grappled
  • 1d6+10, since Constrict damage based on the ogre's hypothetical slam attack would be based on the ogre's hypothetical only natural attack which would thus gain 1.5 times the ogre's Strength modifier to damage

I suppose it's the "whichever is greater," part of the wording of the feat that's tripping my brain up; the die types are identical and the question of how much of a Strength bonus is applied is quite a situational one.

Grand Lodge

1) correct on the TWF unarmed strikes; dont forget they take a -2 to all attack rolls. Keep in mind that whatever limb you use for your unarmed strikes, you have to designate which one is “main hand” and which is “off-hand” before the attack rolls are made, and you need Improved TWF and greater twf to get the offhand iteratives. Lastly, with a strength of 25 the mainland has +7 while the offhand has +3.
2) it does look like that NPC is statted incorrectly. I see nothing that suggests they would get 1,5x Str on unarmed damage, though you can feasibly get that through dragon style/ferocity feats.
3) you would use a slam attack damage and get the 1.5x Str damage because you deal slam damage and have no other natural attacks, giving you the bonus 3 damage. If you use power attack, you’d get the bonus 50% PA damage on that as well. If at any point you gain a natural attack that isn’t a single slam attack (in which case you would use that damage or the unarmed strike damage, whichever is higher) your slam damage would go down to base dice+1x Str mod.


One other issue with that stat block. He has a bite attack listed on his not raging stats even though he gets it from rage.

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