Divine and ranged-combatant, advice needed!


Advice


Hey ho,
Upcoming adventure-path: Kingmaker
I’m looking for some advice regarding a character-concept with a strong relation to a deity on the one hand, but still some good damage in combat by using a range weapon.
I’m currently thinking about a paladin, not sure about without an archetype or divine hunter.
On the other hand, there are some options for a ranger or hunter, but I can’t see any animal companion (we got already a druid in the group), and the small circumstantial bonus seems like a bad tradeoff.
Then there is the alchemist with a small deity-related archetype (sacrament alchemist), but that seems way to less divine-flavor to be honest.
Maybe someone has another option, which I haven’t considered yet? All paizo-releases are legit.
Thank you very much!


Garzag wrote:

Hey ho,

Upcoming adventure-path: Kingmaker
I’m looking for some advice regarding a character-concept with a strong relation to a deity on the one hand, but still some good damage in combat by using a range weapon.
I’m currently thinking about a paladin, not sure about without an archetype or divine hunter.

Is there some reason you're not considering an inquisitor? They can be extraordinarily powerful archers. Additionally, their spells and skills make them quite versatile.


Rangers are always a good choice for an archer. There are a couple of archetype’s that trade away hunter bond.

Divine Tracker replaces it with a warpriests blessings. Considering your concept is a strong relations to a deity that seems to be appropriate.

Spirit Ranger also trades out hunter’s bond, but does not seem to be as focused on a deity. The use of Augury and being able to spontaneously cast any ranger spells pretty useful.

Warden is another archetype that trades away hunter bond, but also trades away the favored enemy and combat styles. This one sounds like it would have been perfect for you if it had not traded away the combat styles. You could still do it but you will be slower to get your archery feats.

Guide could also work well for you. Instead granting your favored enemy bonus to the party they gain a bonus while in his favored terrain. Giving everyone a +2 to initiative and perception is always good. The fact they cannot be tracked is going to be helpful in kingmaker.

Favored enemy may seem like a small bonus but if you max out a single enemy type it can be devastating. If the campaign focuses on a particular type of enemy it becomes incredibly deadly. The ranger in the undead focused campaign I am running absolutely desolates any undead he encounters. VS a large number of undead he out damages the paladin. I am not familiar enough with Kingmaker to know if there is a favored enemy that would work well.

Smallfoot is right about inquisitors being good archers. They actually do well at any kind of combat because they have so many things that stack.

Dark Archive

Warpriest (arsensl Chaplin) is best choice

Grand Lodge

Natures fang druid.

9th level casting, animal companion (not for your build) or domain (eagle which will work very well), spontaneous summoning, study target.

There are archers that will do more damage (though maybe not once you include the animal companion if it were taken). But few if any have 9th level spell casting.


My current Runelords game has a vanilla warpriest of Gozreh that is brutal. Air and weather blessings do good stuff for an archer.


Is it necessary that your divine connection be linked to a mechanical benefit?

If you just want the flavor, you can play a vanilla fighter that wholeheartedly worships a deity.

If you want a mechanical benefit, people above have covered it pretty well. I would add in a cleric of Erastil.


I’d probably go with inquisitor with that criteria.


Thank you guys so much for all advice!
I will take a look into the inquisitor, but im not sure if someone of the group allready has an inquistor.
Since the group will include a druid and a skald, druid is also no option.
Aside from this, im currently looking into those ranger archetypes and warpriest-concept.
Im kind of sure, i would like to have a mechanical background, just to have more oppertunitys to bring it up in the game.
Any special advice for inquistitor going range, for me it seems difficult to get some usefull teamworkfeats in range-combat?

Sovereign Court

Solo tactics really helps, basically you can treat your allies as having your teamwork feats. So things like Coordinated Shot, Enfilading Fire, Friendly Fire Maneuvers, and Target of Opportunity pretty much always trigger. Like, that's +4 to attack when you have allies flanking an enemy and they don't provide cover for the enemy, and if you have another ranged ally, you basically get a free shot every turn (though you loose your swift on the next). You are likely going to take Point Blank and Precise anyway, so essentially no real feat taxes.

For primarily ranged combatants, I usually recommend taking 1 level of Medium. Its less important for Bows since you can get a composite, but for guns/crossbows/etc getting static damage is a little bit harder. That single level and channeling Champion gets you +3 damage(and +1 to hit/fort), taking Spirit Focus gets you another +1 to attack/damage/fort (better than point blank shot), and the Spirit-Bonded Armor enchant is another +1 attack/damage/fort for 6k. The level dip can also get you an exotic weapon proficiency or 2 additional uses of spirit boost (basically add 1d6 to a failed attack roll or fort save).

Of course, if you value your class features/spells more than static damage its not worth the dip.


The nice thing about the inquisitor is that most of his class abilities work no matter what weapon you use. You may not have all the archery feats that a lot of the other classes have, but you have other ways to boost your effectiveness. Bane and Judgements are going to be your primary boosts. Throw in a couple of buff spells like divine favor and you are pretty well set.

You may want to take some of the non-ranged teamwork feats instead of concentrating solely on ranged combat. Shake it off is a great feat to have for any character. Getting up to a +4 untyped bonus on all saves is not something to be dismissed lightly. Enfilading Fire is probably your go to archery teamwork feat.


Hinterlander is a relevant PrC to check out if you want to be a cleric.


I am currently running a KM game, and I suggest you take a peek at this recent blog and see if the Arcane Archer Prestige Archetype suits your fancy. (Near the end)

Mind ... despite being a Paizo thing .. it ... didn't quite make it into a book due to space.

As a PrC(a), you could easily qualify as either a Ranger OR a Paladin, if one of those struck your fancy, or you could get wild, and take a more caster approach, adding in Hunter, Inquisitor, Warpriest, and Oracle, ... potentially even Shaman (would need longbow prof for the last two, Oracle can get that through Battle say, and there are several ways to get that for Warpriest via Race choices, namely Elf or Human).

___

Looking at Lelomenia's suggestion of Hinterlander, I second it as relevant, and is worth a peek before making a final decision.


Maybe it would help if we knew more about the concept. Why be divine and why be ranged?


Yes, i guess thats the main problem, i need a clear concept, divine+ranged isn't a viable concept at all.
Right now i think it should't be a 9th level caster, and not that nature-focused, but more a Figther of his deity (something beside erastil?) and who wants to take the land for his god, to serve him well, but also to save innocent lifes. I the end, ranged is just my wish, cause i have never played a typical ranged-weapon-character, and i would like to.
Does that sound like a start?


Garzag wrote:
Yes, i guess thats the main problem, i need a clear concept, divine+ranged isn't a viable concept at all.

Viable isn't the problem so much as most of the traditional options seemingly being in conflict with what your party already has.

Quote:

Right now i think it should't be a 9th level caster, and not that nature-focused, but more a Figther of his deity (something beside erastil?) and who wants to take the land for his god, to serve him well, but also to save innocent lifes. I the end, ranged is just my wish, cause i have never played a typical ranged-weapon-character, and i would like to.

Does that sound like a start?

You could consider a slayer deliverer. That archetype almost requires you to be lawful good, but your deity could apparently be anything, though LG,NG and LN would make the most sense for the deity of a LG person.


I'm pretty happy with my Dwarven Warpriest/Gunslinger in an Iron Gods game. Wisdom benefits both classes, so they synergize reasonably well. Being able to swift-cast buffs like Divine Favor helps a lot. You can wring the best benefits of Gunslinger out at level 5, so there's plenty of room for Warpriest stuff.

In most encounters, the 40' range I have for touch AC with a pistol enchanted with Distance is plenty. Even outside that range, my BAB+Dex is decent against regular AC.


Garzag wrote:

Yes, i guess thats the main problem, i need a clear concept, divine+ranged isn't a viable concept at all.

Right now i think it should't be a 9th level caster, and not that nature-focused, but more a Figther of his deity (something beside erastil?) and who wants to take the land for his god, to serve him well, but also to save innocent lifes. I the end, ranged is just my wish, cause i have never played a typical ranged-weapon-character, and i would like to.
Does that sound like a start?

Erastil has a STRONG connection to the Kingmaker setting. Every character should seriously consider being an Erastil follower in that AP. Doubly so if you are a ranged combatant.

My personal opinion would be go Warpriest. Mainly because you can buff yourself as a swift action which lets you do full round attacks faster than other archer/casters.


A wood oracle can work nicely as an archer and there’s that rock throwing oracle that is pretty cool floating around the boards too.


If you like the sacrament alchemist but feel it doesn't have a strong enough connection to a deity there are things you can do to link it more strongly to one. For example you can follow Abadar, get his divine fighting technique (which is about crossbows) and the explosive missile discovery and show the world what a crossbow can do in the service of the god of civilisation. Not a typical ranged character obviously.

For archery DPR generally it goes (arsenal chaplain, especially) warpriest > inquisitor > fighter > everyone else. I've read a claim that stacking up multiple multiclasses is really good but seen no evidence for it. A warpriest is a very solid option obviously though they don't especially shine out of combat. I should mention that you can get enough DPR with many options, getting the absolute best matters in very few games.


Garzag wrote:

Thank you guys so much for all advice!

I will take a look into the inquisitor, but im not sure if someone of the group allready has an inquistor.
Since the group will include a druid and a skald, druid is also no option.
Aside from this, im currently looking into those ranger archetypes and warpriest-concept.
Im kind of sure, i would like to have a mechanical background, just to have more oppertunitys to bring it up in the game.
Any special advice for inquistitor going range, for me it seems difficult to get some usefull teamworkfeats in range-combat?

If your group has a Skald in it then between the Warpriest and Inquisitor that quite fully locks you into the Inquisitor; Warpriest wants to cast on the same turn he attacks, which means you have to give up Inspired Rage to use your class features. Judgement and Bane are (Su) abilities so the Inquisitor does not have that problem.


Based on what you have said you have said you are down to two classes. Druids, hunters and rangers are nature focused classes. Clerics are 9th level caster and building a ranged cleric is going to be difficult especially if you are avoiding Erastil. Paladins are kind of feat starved for an archer. It can be done but they rely more on smite evil than feats. That leaves either an inquisitor or a warpriest.

From what you have said warpriest would be a better fit for what you are looking for. Inquisitors can make great archers, but they rely more on class abilities rather than the typical ranged tactics. While both the inquisitor and the warpriest can deliver good ranged damage how they do it is a little different. The warpriest uses the same tactics as a fighter or ranger. Because they get a large number of feats they can quickly become deadly with a bow. The inquisitor on the other hand relies more on things like bane and judgements to get the job done. This means unlike the typical archer their damage tends to be all over the board. When they are fully buffed they do as much if not more damage than any other character. But without their class abilities they do less damage than other archers.


Why don't you go hunter a combination of ranger, druid and team work whit your animal companion it will be a good choice for u


Honestly a inquisitor archer is godly (I guess pun intended) Mine was a inquisitor of erastil...basically he was the one that goes out to hunt down the monsters plaguing the villagers. My domain was feather (so animal companion)

There are a ton of archery teamwork feats: coordinated shot and friendly fire maneuvers are my favorites (I took improved spell sharing for my build)

I went with the sanctified slayer archetype and honestly he is at level 11 and not many things survive a round. Add in no he has divine interference so if a ally is about to die he burns a spell to keep that crit from happening :)


Zepheri wrote:
Why don't you go hunter a combination of ranger, druid and team work whit your animal companion it will be a good choice for u

There is already a druid in the party and he wants to avoid a nature focused character.


Oh sorry then how about monk Zen archery


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Based on what you have said you have said you are down to two classes <SNIP> either an inquisitor or a warpriest.

I think a Divine Hunter Paladin will work fine as well.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
From what you have said warpriest would be a better fit for what you are looking for. Inquisitors can make great archers, but they rely more on class abilities rather than the typical ranged tactics. While both the inquisitor and the warpriest can deliver good ranged damage how they do it is a little different. The warpriest uses the same tactics as a fighter or ranger. Because they get a large number of feats they can quickly become deadly with a bow. The inquisitor on the other hand relies more on things like bane and judgements to get the job done. This means unlike the typical archer their damage tends to be all over the board. When they are fully buffed they do as much if not more damage than any other character. But without their class abilities they do less damage than other archers.

This is good advice. It's a good breakdown of how these 2 classes are likely to play.

However ...

In my experience of Kingmaker (played the first 2 books) you'll be able to throw out all your buffs in most fights. This makes Inquisitor (or Paladin) more viable, since they can use their 1/day or 2/day abilities fairly liberally. Inquisitor also has the benefit of having more skill points to go round.


Its gonna be an inquisitor! Hurray :)

Right now im a little torn between what the focus will be: since the skald would be very charismatic, im not sure how much social-skills are needed (Stern Gaze + Heresy or conversion inquisition). On the other side, a figther for his godness, should be able to communicate the overwhelming grace and power his deity can give those, who follow his voice...
I can pick a domain of my deity or just a inquisition, correct?
Many of those inquisitions seem to have powers (level 6 or 8) which can be resisted with will-saves and i think the dc is just way to low to be a problem for bigger enemys, and for smaller ones its kinda waste for a 1/day ability.

I want to give the teamwork feats a shot and play without a archetype(=vanilla? is this used correct?).

Still: erastil isn't catching enough, looking for something better..Desna is a little to less "going to cleanse the land of dirty monsters"...Gonna look through all Good (lawful,neutral,chaotic) deitys now :)

Thoughts:

Koltar Perzel
Human
Str 14
Dex 19 (+2 Human)
Con 11
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 7
Traits: maybe bastard (campain) + x
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot

Big thank you, didnt expect all this answers and advice! Ur awesome!


I have not actually played Kingmaker but I have read the players guide, and saw some advice about it on the forums. There are a couple of reasons I did not recommend it.

First is what I stated earlier that Paladins don’t get any bonus feats and tend to rely on smite evil for a lot of their damage. Looking at the recommended favored enemies for ranger it seems like there are a lot of encounters were the opponents are not evil. Smite evil also only affects one creature so if the encounter is with multiple opponents will also prove difficult for a paladin. Again this is based on the little I know of the adventure path.

Second is based on the fact that the original poster seems to want to avoid Erastil as a deity. The players guide straight out states that the best deity for a paladin in kingmaker is Erastil. Looking at the recommended deities out of the cleric section Erastil is the only one suitable for a paladin. While there is no reason the character cannot worship a deity not listed it may be best to go with a deity that already has a presence in the area.

One other thing to consider is what leadership role the player is going after. In addition to the leadership’s stat focus you have to look at how suitable the class is for the role. An inquisitor would make a good councilor, royal assassin, or spymaster. They tend to be more subtle and sneaky than a paladin or warpriest. The warpriest would be a better high priest although they would also do well as a general or marshal. The paladin would work well as the ruler, general, or marshal. That is not to say that these are the only roles those classes fit, but those are probably fit for the classes.


Whaaat Erastil is the best god! Old one eye is one of the elder deity, so his lawful good is a bit more brutal. A inquisitor works well for him since they don't really need to fit into a category of the church. So mine is a monster hunter that keeps the farms and villagers safe by hunting down the monsters.

Fate's favored is probably your go to. Honestly there are a lot of opinions on vanilla vs archetype. Sanctified slayer is honestly awesome, you gain the slayer's studied target and a couple bonus feats..sneak attack wont come up too often but hey if you ever need a mace it would come in handy :) But to give you a idea I spend 1st round casting divine favor (at level 11 it is up to +4 strike and damage) and then a free action to study (+3 strike and damage) Now I was silly and my velociraptor would then charge in with his +3 strike/damage from divine favor but hey. This would give you the ability to every encounter/round gain about +7 to hit and damage with the bow...of course at that level you can use bane to just kill them. Judgements might catch up and give you some versatility but hey I'm just there to kill monsters :)


What role will your character play in the Kingdom? That will be a major influence on how you should build your character including your choice of deity.

Drop your DEX down to 18 and use the points to raise your CON and INT to 12. The extra HP per level and skill point is worth it. It also gives you a +1 to FORT saves.

Consider the Reformation inquisition if you are looking to be a voice of your god. It allows you to use WIS instead of CHA for diplomacy, intimidate and perform oratory (and makes perform oratory a class skill). At 4th level you can also roll twice with those skills a number of times per day equal to your WIS modifier. Your 8th level ability is being able to use charm person a number of times per day equal to your WIS modifier.


Most of the good deities are pretty soft on evil. Torag may suit your tastes. He does have human followers too.

Ragathiel may be the deity you want, but he’s more obscure.

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