Unarmored Barbarian / Ostog the Unslain


Conversions


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Do we know if Mr Mona is finally going to get a way of building his old unarmored Barbarian character without being quickly splattered on the ground due to low AC?

The new critical rules will make such an idea even more vulnerable unless there is a way to boost your proficiency in unarmored defense .

Right now it seems like it could be somewhat achieved with Monk with Barbarian multiclass archetype but I assume that isn’t really the vision

I wonder if Erik has been thrown a bone here or not?!


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Theres possibly an instinct that allows for unarmoured combat?

Liberty's Edge

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Davido1000 wrote:
Theres possibly an instinct that allows for unarmoured combat?

I doubt there is in the corebook, but it seems like something likely to be added later.


Or eventually can be i suppose ...


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The only possibilities I see don't come online before lvl 2/4

one would be a monk who multiclasses into barb

the other would be a barb who multiclasses into monk and takes the unarmored expterise feat (presumed that is still a thing)

Bot variations don't sound overly thrilling but with a high dex that could be pulled of, most of the recoureces had to be pooled in dex and strength I guess


An unarmoured instinct was something I was think about earlier today precisely because of Ostog the Unslain; hopefully its in the pipeline.

Unarmoured barbarians for the win; gotta have that classic Conan look.


Barbarians already get their unarmored defense to master at level 19 along with light and medium armor, not sure when they get expert. Animal instinct had something for being unarmed in the play test.

There needs to be an option for heavy armor that doesn't involve paladin and isn't worse than medium armor.


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Does Monk Dedication do anything for Unarmored Defense? With no alignment restrictions for dipping into the monk class, that might be the quickest way to take care of the issue.


Monk Dedication makes you trained in unarmed strikes, which... sounds a little redundant?
Y’know, since everyone is trained.


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Ediwir wrote:

Monk Dedication makes you trained in unarmed strikes, which... sounds a little redundant?

Y’know, since everyone is trained.

Is that from the playtest or the actual rules? I hope it is from the playtest, since feats should actually do something.

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Ediwir wrote:

Monk Dedication makes you trained in unarmed strikes, which... sounds a little redundant?

Y’know, since everyone is trained.

It also give Powerful Blows (which ups your damage on unarmed to d6 and removes the penalty for dealing lethal). And it gives you a Skill.

We also don't actually know if everyone is Trained in Unarmed in the final game (though it seems plausible).


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A 20th level character being untrained in unarmed strikes would be really bad under the new rules since they wouldn't even be able to add their level to the attack roll.

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David knott 242 wrote:
A 20th level character being untrained in unarmed strikes would be really bad under the new rules since they wouldn't even be able to add their level to the attack roll.

If anyone is nonproficient it's probably just Wizard. I'd bet that anyone with Simple Weapons also gets Unarmed Strikes.


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Fist is a simple weapon, as per the playtest.

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Cyouni wrote:
Fist is a simple weapon, as per the playtest.

There are some indications that this is not true in the final version. The Alchemist class features, for example, have all Alchemists become Expert in Simple Weapons, but Mutagenists have a specific feature for also becoming Experts in Unarmed.


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I am pretty sure that was mentioned in Oblivion Oath that everyone is trained in unarmed attacks so they have that option to get out of grabs (the other option is athletics or acrobatic checks).

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Kyrone wrote:
I am pretty sure that was mentioned in Oblivion Oath that everyone is trained in unarmed attacks so they have that option to get out of grabs (the other option is athletics or acrobatic checks).

You're right! That was indeed mentioned. So definitely Trained. My point above about them not seeming to be Simple Weapons does stand, though.


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I'd rather see an unarmored barbarian have lots of HP (and ways to recover it) + ways to focus on punishing people who hit them with cool and interesting reactions, than have them have a high AC for no conceivable in world reason for it. It would be much cooler for Barbarians to be able to have a reason not to want to focus on Maxing AC, than creating implausible ways for them to do so just to keep up with ones that do choose to wear armor.

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Unicore wrote:
I'd rather see an unarmored barbarian have lots of HP (and ways to recover it) + ways to focus on punishing people who hit them with cool and interesting reactions, than have them have a high AC for no conceivable in world reason for it. It would be much cooler for Barbarians to be able to have a reason not to want to focus on Maxing AC, than creating implausible ways for them to do so just to keep up with ones that do choose to wear armor.

Or, maybe the ability to avoid crits? Maybe a barbarian can turn critical hits into normal damage?


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We had an animal totem power that let you fight shirtless in the playtest, the issue is you couldn't use weapons with it so Ostog can't have his axe.

With Erik seeming to be the chief guy in charge of "How much content can we squeeze in here" I think an Ostag build is gonna happen soon, if not in core.

Unicore wrote:
I'd rather see an unarmored barbarian have lots of HP (and ways to recover it) + ways to focus on punishing people who hit them with cool and interesting reactions, than have them have a high AC for no conceivable in world reason for it. It would be much cooler for Barbarians to be able to have a reason not to want to focus on Maxing AC, than creating implausible ways for them to do so just to keep up with ones that do choose to wear armor.

The playtest Barbarian could indeed do this. When they fought the Sea Serpent, the Fighter and Paladin were both getting crit like crazy despite their high armor. The dwarf barbarian in studded leather got crit just as much, but still lasted the longest thanks his enormous HP pool. I imagine AC will be more useful against lots of lower level enemy attacks, but then again hopefully raging resistance will offset that.


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The catch with Ostog, and why he is so popular with the old Paizo staff, if I remember correctly, was mainly because it was a BAD build, that shouldn't have survived. With "The Unslain" as a name... It's infamous because it was definitely ASKING to be killed, like a red shirt in "Star Trek TOS" (yeah, I KNOW this is a myth, using it for the hyperbole), but DIDN'T.
That would be stealing his thunders. :3

Grand Lodge

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Book and Lore Spoilers:
So in the end of tyrants grasp in the section with new rules for 1e there is a full statblock for him also JJ revaled in the last lore stream that Ostog is now one of the Linorn Kings in canon.

Other than that I don't see being unarmored as a problematic. Sure you will have like 4 less ac than wearing good medium armor but sometimes a thematic choice beats out a mechanical one.

Liberty's Edge

High enough Dex characters can be unarmored at no penalty, since for anything less than Heavy Armor, Dex + Armor maxes at +5 AC.

So once you hit Dex 20, there's no penalty to AC at all. Of course, for a Barbarian, reaching Dex 20 requires being 15th level. Still, starting with Dex 16 you're only 2 AC behind, and are only 1 AC behind from 5th level on as you hit Dex 18 then.

That's suboptimal but a lot better than PF1.


Is there anything stopping a Barbarian from casting spells that lack the concentrate tag? Getting shield from an ancestry feat would help.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Is there anything stopping a Barbarian from casting spells that lack the concentrate tag? Getting shield from an ancestry feat would help.

Shield uses verbal, so it has concentrate.

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