paizo.com Recent Posts in Sfs 2-02: Waking the Pastpaizo.com Recent Posts in Sfs 2-02: Waking the Past2019-06-28T17:04:01Z2019-06-28T17:04:01ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastGary D Nortonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#362020-06-13T17:40:50Z2020-06-13T17:40:50Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mike Bramnik wrote:</div><blockquote> However, three tasks are listed after "either of the following." </blockquote><p>I've run this scenario multiple times and I go with any one of the following. In my experience:
</p>
1) Everyone retrieves the crystals (even if they come back for them)
<br />
2) No one gains control of the robots. [Simple enough, but the time pressure dissuades PCs from the Computers rolls in a room that they can easily get trapped in.]
<br />
3) No one gets all 4 of the datapads. PCs rarely go down the elevator shaft.</p>
<p>When I run this scenario, I call for a break after the fight in A1 (even though it's a bit early). Afterwards, I keep pushing the PCs with the sense of impending doom. This is a horror scenario; don't give them a break until they free themselves.</p>Mike Bramnik wrote:However, three tasks are listed after "either of the following."
I've run this scenario multiple times and I go with any one of the following. In my experience:
1) Everyone retrieves the crystals (even if they come back for them)
2) No one gains control of the robots. [Simple enough, but the time pressure dissuades PCs from the Computers rolls in a room that they can easily get trapped in.]
3) No one gets all 4 of the datapads. PCs rarely go down the elevator shaft.When I...Gary D Norton2020-06-13T17:40:50ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastCanisDirushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#352020-06-12T12:26:54Z2020-06-12T12:26:54Z<p>Finally getting around to running this. The insight on this thread has been rather good, so thank you all for that.</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>A question I'm surprised hasn't been asked before:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Secondary Success Conditions wrote:</div><blockquote>If the PCs succeed at either of the following objectives, they succeed at their secondary success condition and each earn 1 additional Fame and 1 additional Reputation for any factions associated with their current faction boon.</blockquote><p>However, three tasks are listed after "either of the following." I'm going to assume most folks are going with "any of the following" until otherwise noted, but I still wanted to pose it here in case something else was meant?Finally getting around to running this. The insight on this thread has been rather good, so thank you all for that.
[Spoiler omitted]
A question I'm surprised hasn't been asked before:
Secondary Success Conditions wrote:If the PCs succeed at either of the following objectives, they succeed at their secondary success condition and each earn 1 additional Fame and 1 additional Reputation for any factions associated with their current faction boon.
However, three tasks are listed after...CanisDirus2020-06-12T12:26:54ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the Pastterry_t_ukhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#342020-05-12T20:17:23Z2020-05-12T20:17:23Z<p>I was talking about the number of creatures :-)</p>
<p>Text indicates 4, encounter stat blocks says 6</p>I was talking about the number of creatures :-)
Text indicates 4, encounter stat blocks says 6terry_t_uk2020-05-12T20:17:23ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastBigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#332020-05-12T14:26:30Z2020-05-12T14:26:30Z<p>..both? Subterranean lice are vermin related to asteroid lice?</p>..both? Subterranean lice are vermin related to asteroid lice?BigNorseWolf2020-05-12T14:26:30ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the Pastterry_t_ukhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#322020-05-12T09:18:01Z2020-05-12T09:18:01Z<p>Quick question on A1 : Mine Shaft encounter
<br />
The text says "In Subtier 3–4, the creatures are four vermin genetically related to common asteroid lice."</p>
<p>The stat block says "SUBTERRANEAN LICE (6)"</p>
<p>Which is it? </p>
<p>Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>Terry</p>Quick question on A1 : Mine Shaft encounter
The text says "In Subtier 3–4, the creatures are four vermin genetically related to common asteroid lice."
The stat block says "SUBTERRANEAN LICE (6)"
Which is it?
Thanks in advance.
Terryterry_t_uk2020-05-12T09:18:01ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastBigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#312020-01-07T10:39:54Z2020-01-07T10:39:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Nathan Monson wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TheGoofyGE3K wrote:</div><blockquote>I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise </blockquote>I didn't warn my players ahead of time, but I did have it spend a round materializing so the players could try to hit it and realize how outclassed they are. </blockquote><p>Keep in mind that you can miss because you miss the AC, you roll low, or the thing is effectively a swarm and immune to damage.. or the thing is going to one shot you.
<p>Since the first few of those are far more common in starfinder than the latter, it really, really needs a warning sign.</p>Nathan Monson wrote:TheGoofyGE3K wrote:I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise
I didn't warn my players ahead of time, but I did have it spend a round materializing so the players could try to hit it and realize how outclassed they are. Keep in mind that you can miss because you miss the AC, you roll low, or the thing is effectively a swarm and immune...BigNorseWolf2020-01-07T10:39:54ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastNathan Monsonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#302020-01-07T10:07:06Z2020-01-07T10:07:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TheGoofyGE3K wrote:</div><blockquote>I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise </blockquote><p>I didn't warn my players ahead of time, but I did have it spend a round materializing so the players could try to hit it and realize how outclassed they are.TheGoofyGE3K wrote:I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise
I didn't warn my players ahead of time, but I did have it spend a round materializing so the players could try to hit it and realize how outclassed they are.Nathan Monson2020-01-07T10:07:06ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastShea Hoarfoothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#292020-01-07T04:49:25Z2020-01-07T04:49:25Z<p>Horror? Nyet! This was pure adrenaline packed action... I ran it at a con.. everyone survived... (hurt but alive) and all with excited relieved grins...
<br />
Step 1 foreshadowed the extreme danger by highlighting the fact they were trapped with no help.
<br />
Step 2 gave the party a bit of warning at each monster entrance (you hear the vents rattling or blue sparks start to form at the vent entrance ... etc)
<br />
Step 3 oh you rolled a 19 and missed? Hmmm still want to fight? Yes? Ok does a 38 hit you ... still want to fight?
<br />
Of course a summoner mystic in the party did help a bit with critters for it to chase... </p>
<p>Do agree the skill checks at the end were a bit high... perhaps by 3 pts</p>Horror? Nyet! This was pure adrenaline packed action... I ran it at a con.. everyone survived... (hurt but alive) and all with excited relieved grins...
Step 1 foreshadowed the extreme danger by highlighting the fact they were trapped with no help.
Step 2 gave the party a bit of warning at each monster entrance (you hear the vents rattling or blue sparks start to form at the vent entrance ... etc)
Step 3 oh you rolled a 19 and missed? Hmmm still want to fight? Yes? Ok does a 38 hit you ......Shea Hoarfoot2020-01-07T04:49:25ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastAscalaphushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#282020-01-03T07:57:14Z2020-01-02T12:09:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Hargrave wrote:</div><blockquote><p>However, if they read the scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog:</p>
<p>"However, they're not alone. The PCs soon discover not only that something is waking up, but also that there are some secrets best left undisturbed."</blockquote><p>Yeah the problem with that is that like a quarter of all scenario blurbs sound like that.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Hargrave wrote:</div><blockquote><p>Having said all this, Paizo should just chuck the Horror tag on this.</p>
<p>So it's totally up to you, you can just mention it's a horror scenario without going into specifics right? </blockquote><p>Yeah, I think that would be exactly the right solution.James Hargrave wrote:However, if they read the scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog:
"However, they're not alone. The PCs soon discover not only that something is waking up, but also that there are some secrets best left undisturbed."
Yeah the problem with that is that like a quarter of all scenario blurbs sound like that. James Hargrave wrote:Having said all this, Paizo should just chuck the Horror tag on this.
So it's totally up to you, you can just mention...Ascalaphus2020-01-02T12:09:04ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastQuentin Coldwaterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#272020-01-03T07:57:18Z2020-01-01T19:04:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Hargrave wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">TheGoofyGE3K wrote:</div><blockquote>I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise </blockquote><p><b>However, if they read the scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog:
<p>"However, they're not alone. The PCs soon discover not only that something is waking up, but also that there are some secrets best left undisturbed."</b></p>
<p>Having said all this, Paizo should just chuck the Horror tag on this.</p>
<p>So it's totally up to you, you can just mention it's a horror scenario without going into specifics right? </blockquote><p>Not everyone reads the blurb. Some people prefer as few spoilers as possible, so tags aren't the most useful. It's a little immersion-breaking, but I'd prefer if a GM warns people beforehand or right as they're starting the scenario that this is the case. Then people still have the option to opt out.James Hargrave wrote:TheGoofyGE3K wrote:I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise
However, if they read the scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog: "However, they're not alone. The PCs soon discover not only that something is waking up, but also that there are some secrets best left undisturbed."
Having said all this, Paizo...Quentin Coldwater2020-01-01T19:04:57ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastShifty (alias of Nik B.)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#262021-04-24T18:28:40Z2020-01-01T00:05:33Z<p>I haven't seen this much complaining and whining that the BBEG required some thought and not just a Vesk-rush since Traitors Lodge.</p>I haven't seen this much complaining and whining that the BBEG required some thought and not just a Vesk-rush since Traitors Lodge.Shifty (alias of Nik B.)2020-01-01T00:05:33ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastBigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#252019-12-31T09:55:06Z2019-12-31T09:55:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Hargrave wrote:</div><blockquote><p> scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog:</p>
<p>"However, they're not alone. The PCs soon discover not only that something is waking up, but also that there are some secrets best left undisturbed."
<br />
</blockquote><p>But that's the kind of thing starfinders deal with all the time, usually with pew pew lasers.James Hargrave wrote:scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog:
"However, they're not alone. The PCs soon discover not only that something is waking up, but also that there are some secrets best left undisturbed."
But that's the kind of thing starfinders deal with all the time, usually with pew pew lasers.BigNorseWolf2019-12-31T09:55:06ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastCptJameshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#242020-06-13T14:01:26Z2019-12-31T09:41:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">TheGoofyGE3K wrote:</div><blockquote>I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise </blockquote><p>The way I did this, was by when the monster appeared and swung at them, I just asked if a 38 or so vs their AC was a hit.
<p>They got the hint pretty quick. No warning was required after that.</p>
<p>However, if they read the scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog:</p>
<p>"However, they're not alone. The PCs soon discover not only that something is waking up, but also that there are some secrets best left undisturbed."</p>
<p>Having said all this, Paizo should just chuck the Horror tag on this.</p>
<p>So it's totally up to you, you can just mention it's a horror scenario without going into specifics right?</p>TheGoofyGE3K wrote:I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise
The way I did this, was by when the monster appeared and swung at them, I just asked if a 38 or so vs their AC was a hit. They got the hint pretty quick. No warning was required after that.
However, if they read the scenario blurb, it does make it sound like they wake the Balrog:
"However,...CptJames2019-12-31T09:41:31ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastTheGoofyGE3K (alias of 2ndGenerationCleric)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#232019-12-16T19:16:13Z2019-12-16T19:16:13Z<p>I remember playing in this at Origins and I'm 99% sure my GM didnt give us any warning or hunt at all other than telling us we were in rounds. He had no expression on his face, no sympathy, and between a high attack roll missing and a high trick attack failing we figured it out pretty quickly. It was chilling, terrifying, amazing, and we almost tried to go back to kill it out of a sense of heroism. Never would've wanted that spoiled for me, as announcing to the party "oh god, we're in a horror movie" and the gm finally smiling evilly was amazing. </p>
<p>I'll be running this in February with my local gaming group. One of them has run this before. Question is, do I warn them or not? I feel I should, but would hate to ruin the surprise</p>I remember playing in this at Origins and I'm 99% sure my GM didnt give us any warning or hunt at all other than telling us we were in rounds. He had no expression on his face, no sympathy, and between a high attack roll missing and a high trick attack failing we figured it out pretty quickly. It was chilling, terrifying, amazing, and we almost tried to go back to kill it out of a sense of heroism. Never would've wanted that spoiled for me, as announcing to the party "oh god, we're in a...TheGoofyGE3K (alias of 2ndGenerationCleric)2019-12-16T19:16:13ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastShifty (alias of Nik B.)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#222019-12-15T11:39:04Z2019-12-15T11:39:04Z<p>Aliens was an action movie. Only three people made it home, and one was an NPC.</p>Aliens was an action movie. Only three people made it home, and one was an NPC.Shifty (alias of Nik B.)2019-12-15T11:39:04ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastAscalaphushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#212019-12-14T00:35:26Z2019-12-14T00:35:26Z<p>I think as a horror scenario this is one of the better attempts Paizo has made. It's pretty gutsy to put it in organized play.</p>
<p>But it's really risky, with player reactions. It's a bit like taking someone to the cinema saying you're going to watch an action movie (typical organized play) and taking them to a horror movie instead. You may find that some people get <i>pretty upset</i> about that. Even people who enjoy a horror movie if they know they're going to see a horror movie.</p>
<p>In the first hour of the scenario when it became clear where this was going I was counting up my Fame and seriously considering just say "okay I'll pay my fame for body recovery and raise dead. I'm not playing this. Give me a Chronicle, I'm going home". I didn't, we played an intense game and at the end I kinda liked that we escaped. But I think there's something wrong when a scenario provokes that kind of reaction from me.</p>I think as a horror scenario this is one of the better attempts Paizo has made. It's pretty gutsy to put it in organized play.
But it's really risky, with player reactions. It's a bit like taking someone to the cinema saying you're going to watch an action movie (typical organized play) and taking them to a horror movie instead. You may find that some people get pretty upset about that. Even people who enjoy a horror movie if they know they're going to see a horror movie.
In the first hour...Ascalaphus2019-12-14T00:35:26ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastShifty (alias of Nik B.)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#202020-06-13T14:00:38Z2019-12-13T12:21:08Z<p>Just going to say I loved it and all my players had a ball.</p>
<p>They got the message really quickly once the first player got snapped like a pretzel.</p>Just going to say I loved it and all my players had a ball.
They got the message really quickly once the first player got snapped like a pretzel.Shifty (alias of Nik B.)2019-12-13T12:21:08ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastQuentin Coldwaterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#192019-12-14T00:49:47Z2019-09-26T11:18:03Z<p>Played this alongside Lau. I totally agree with him, though I feel slightly less harsh about it.</p>
<p>One important thing here, I think, is telegraphing. As written, the monster has a few disadvantages and exploits, while also having some things PCs NEED to know, otherwise they're dead. And the scenario doesn't give it. I think a GM should really telegraph HOW it enters and exits if a door is jammed. Our GM simply said, "it just appears in the room," without indicating it came through the vents or something. Big Hero 6 is a good example of how to do it well. Have it make a rattling noise as it crawls through vents, play up its particleness, and maybe give the PCs some leeway in hindering it. It should not be totally immune to everything the players throw at it, but it should at least slow it down. As for when it's slowed, explain how slowly it reacts to you all, as if in slow-motion. That already suggests it might not be able to take reactions. A proper horror villain is lumbering, but inevitable. Two-shotting a PC is technically that, but it is not fun. It leaves very little room for error. Especially when in Starfinder, HP healing is a lot less effective and a lot less common. I was glad we had a Healing Mystic at our table, otherwise I would've been putty.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Krolak wrote:</div><blockquote><p> This type of scenario can be great. The players really enjoyed it. However, I want to point out:
</p>
- The key to such scenarios is to make the enemy unkillable, NOT to make it unkillable AND able to 1 or 2 shot PCs in tier. It should have a high AC and/or obvious regen/DR/resistances, but its damage should be a HECK of a lot lower.
<br />
- The checks on the final door were a bit too high for the tier.
<br />
- It would really help to make the layout of the place less linear. More options for the whole group to get away from the thing and circle around to finish up with items or clues that they noticed, but didn't have time to spend on would help.
<br />
- The auto-opening doors really work against the PCs in this. It prevents them from being stealthy to check on where the golem is and trying to avoid it or get past it. I would rather allow for clever players to come up with ways to deal with the situation than forcing them to resolve the challenge the way the author thought they would. </blockquote><p>That door was so crap. We were waiting several rounds for it to open, twiddling our thumbs, while our last party member was kiting around the monster, without even knowing if it was effective. Worst of all, she was one of the two people good at Computers, so having her run around meant that our only so-so other Computers guy had to operate that door all on his own.
</p>
That crawlspace was a trap. Yes, it technically loops around, but not everyone can go through it. If things go badly, people will end up backed into a corner and die.
<br />
As said, a two-shotting inescapable death monster is no fun to fight. I've had risky fights with strong opponents before, but there were tactics to mitigate it (Fossi comes to mind). Yeah, it takes away some of the scare factor if it's less powerful, but the fact that we can't kill it is still scary enough. Now it's just all bad stuff piled on top of each other: strong, inescapable, no weak points. Pick two out of three. At least give the players hope.
<br />
And yeah, loot is easily missable, yet mission-critical for either prestige points or money. Now, Society play keeps in mind you don't get full rewards all the time, but this piled on top of everything else is just really feel-bad. You could've survived by the skin of your teeth and still haven't earned anything. That's just a downer.</p>Played this alongside Lau. I totally agree with him, though I feel slightly less harsh about it.
One important thing here, I think, is telegraphing. As written, the monster has a few disadvantages and exploits, while also having some things PCs NEED to know, otherwise they're dead. And the scenario doesn't give it. I think a GM should really telegraph HOW it enters and exits if a door is jammed. Our GM simply said, "it just appears in the room," without indicating it came through the vents...Quentin Coldwater2019-09-26T11:18:03ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastAscalaphushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#182020-11-24T21:06:59Z2019-09-26T10:31:47Z<p>I've gone into a bit more detail in my product review on ugly warts in this scenario. But I just want to point out one thing.</p>
<p><span class=messageboard-bigger><b>It's not okay to just drop unsuspecting players into a horror scenario.</b></span></p>
<p>This scenario is absolutely not a normal SFS genre scenario. <b>It's decent as a horror scenario.</b> But would you say it's okay to tell a friend "let's go to a superhero movie" and then actually take them to a slasher horror movie?</p>
<p>I think Paizo dropped the ball hard on this scenario by not putting a [horror] tag in the product description. Because the blurb sounds really like just about any other scenario ever - most dungeoncrawls are also about stopping some horrible ancient evil, but when you play them, you're not powerless to actually do anything about it. So this is a nasty bait and switch.</p>
<p>As a GM you should be careful when scheduling this. Consider your players, whether this is actually what they would enjoy, and whether you should tell them beforehand that this is a different kinda scenario. I think you have a duty of care to your friends here.</p>I've gone into a bit more detail in my product review on ugly warts in this scenario. But I just want to point out one thing.
It's not okay to just drop unsuspecting players into a horror scenario.
This scenario is absolutely not a normal SFS genre scenario. It's decent as a horror scenario. But would you say it's okay to tell a friend "let's go to a superhero movie" and then actually take them to a slasher horror movie?
I think Paizo dropped the ball hard on this scenario by not putting a...Ascalaphus2019-09-26T10:31:47ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastGM Paladin (alias of Paladin of Baha-who?)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#172019-09-23T03:59:09Z2019-09-23T03:59:09Z<p>Ran this today. The PCs managed to get my hints that this thing was a huge threat, and while one went down, they managed to kite it while handling the rest of the encounters to avoid anyone else getting knocked out. The slow speed is the saving grace. It had a lot of tension until they finally figured out what they needed to do.</p>Ran this today. The PCs managed to get my hints that this thing was a huge threat, and while one went down, they managed to kite it while handling the rest of the encounters to avoid anyone else getting knocked out. The slow speed is the saving grace. It had a lot of tension until they finally figured out what they needed to do.GM Paladin (alias of Paladin of Baha-who?)2019-09-23T03:59:09ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastNathan Monsonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#162019-09-19T20:28:33Z2019-09-19T20:28:33Z<p>Anyone who plans to run this should probably remind your players that it takes a DC10 engineering check as a full round action to jam a door.</p>Anyone who plans to run this should probably remind your players that it takes a DC10 engineering check as a full round action to jam a door.Nathan Monson2019-09-19T20:28:33ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastGM Paladin (alias of Paladin of Baha-who?)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#152019-09-19T06:41:12Z2019-09-19T06:41:12Z<p>Something I don't think anyone's mentioned yet is that for the first 5 minutes, the golem should be taking 1d6 cold damage per minute from the temperature. As a result, it should be slowed for 3 out of 10 rounds. In fact, since it's ongoing damage, there's an argument that it should be slowed for the entire first 5 minutes of the event, until the temperature of the facility rises enough that the cold damage changes to nonlethal, which constructs are immune to.</p>Something I don't think anyone's mentioned yet is that for the first 5 minutes, the golem should be taking 1d6 cold damage per minute from the temperature. As a result, it should be slowed for 3 out of 10 rounds. In fact, since it's ongoing damage, there's an argument that it should be slowed for the entire first 5 minutes of the event, until the temperature of the facility rises enough that the cold damage changes to nonlethal, which constructs are immune to.GM Paladin (alias of Paladin of Baha-who?)2019-09-19T06:41:12ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastJames Krolakhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#142019-09-19T17:49:08Z2019-08-26T00:49:04Z<p>I GM'd this today at 2D Con in Minneapolis. Knowing it could easily be a TPK, I warned all the players at the beginning of the scenario's reputation and that there was something in it they were not supposed to try to fight. I had 5 pregens and 2 actual PCs being played. Three of the players have Org Play numbers with 3 or 4 digits, so there were some very sharp folks at the table. (One of them texted Thursty when the golem got the first hit and his response was, "RUN CHILDREN! RUN!")</p>
<p>When the golem appeared almost right at the beginning, one of the PCs got a great Engineering check and another got a great Mysticism check. So, I gave them some hints about what it might be like while trying to maintain the sense that it was ancient and of a strange design. I pointed out that it seemed to be moving sluggishly compared to what they would expect from such a creature. They used this and some tests to figure out what its limitations seemed to be.</p>
<p>Once they attempted to attack it and missed against an EAC in the mid 20s, they realized that they were never going to hit it. At that point, it was focused on the solarion, who began leading it in a loop between the Lounge, Rear Entrance, and the Elevator Room while the rest of the party spread out to dig up important items and clues. They finally entered the last room, triggering the golem to appear there among them. When it started zeroing in on 1 of the PCs, that person just lead it from one end of the room to the other, while the rest of the party tried and tried and tried to get the door open. I fully believe this would have been a horrible train wreck if I hadn't warned them—and if the golem's tactics didn't say that it focused on 1 target until dead.</p>
<p>This type of scenario can be great. The players really enjoyed it. However, I want to point out:
<br />
- The key to such scenarios is to make the enemy unkillable, NOT to make it unkillable AND able to 1 or 2 shot PCs in tier. It should have a high AC and/or obvious regen/DR/resistances, but its damage should be a HECK of a lot lower.
<br />
- The checks on the final door were a bit too high for the tier.
<br />
- It would really help to make the layout of the place less linear. More options for the whole group to get away from the thing and circle around to finish up with items or clues that they noticed, but didn't have time to spend on would help.
<br />
- The auto-opening doors really work against the PCs in this. It prevents them from being stealthy to check on where the golem is and trying to avoid it or get past it. I would rather allow for clever players to come up with ways to deal with the situation than forcing them to resolve the challenge the way the author thought they would.</p>I GM'd this today at 2D Con in Minneapolis. Knowing it could easily be a TPK, I warned all the players at the beginning of the scenario's reputation and that there was something in it they were not supposed to try to fight. I had 5 pregens and 2 actual PCs being played. Three of the players have Org Play numbers with 3 or 4 digits, so there were some very sharp folks at the table. (One of them texted Thursty when the golem got the first hit and his response was, "RUN CHILDREN! RUN!")
When...James Krolak2019-08-26T00:49:04ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastGM_Starson (alias of Matthais777)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#132019-08-09T00:31:54Z2019-08-09T00:31:54Z<p>So... I ran this at Gencon. Bit of a rant/background. I'm a bit of a oldschool GM, how the Dice falls is how it happens. I don't want you to die, but I ain't gonna save you, and risk is a part of the game. You should sit down with the understanding that your character may die, and if you don't want that to happen, there are a LOT of better systems out their for that kind of gameplay than pathfinder.</p>
<p>With that said? This scenario was a bloody massacre. I had 2 TPKs, 2 tables where at least 3 people died, and the other half ONLY survived because pre-gen players where willing to throw themselves in the way to buy the actual players time to escape. One table just flat out quit before starting when i gave them the warning.</p>
<p>Don't get me wrong. I LOVE the scenario itself. But it unfortunately has a few... conflicting problems. First off, the society play has trained to many people to think things are safe and always to level. While this scenario may demonstrate EMPHATICALLY that this is not the case, the fact that the Golem can murder death kill everyone makes it a more feel bad than a demonstration. The same goes for his "No AOO's" handycap. Unless the GM explicitly states that it can't, no one is willing to risk the possibility of a AOO against this thing, and they hamstring themselves horribly trying to not provoke. Only one group of 5 figured it out at gen, because he "Succeeded" at a acrobatics check, then "Failed" With a much higher acrobatics check later. He called BS and I told him to "Think back to what happened last time". It was a light bulb moment, but unfortunately to much of the team was slaughtered at that point to have a hope. </p>
<p>Secondly, without fail, every group triggered the mini-boss battle with Dr. Hsiung and ended up having to fight on two fronts. The only time someone managed to find the tunnel, a bad timing roll on the computer's check meant he was trapped in a tiny room with a very angry golem.</p>
<p>Third, that stupid rifle. It meant the death of more players this weekend because people kept finding the tablet, realizing it was "Important" and trying to get past the golem into the armory (Or had already gotten into the armory) and split the party, leaving some trapped in the armory to be mushed. Others would inevitably get killed trying to save them.</p>
<p>Fourth, that stupid bloody door. All your beefcakes dead? Guess you lose, cause your gonna take a lot of time trying to nat-18+ to get that thing open. Still have your beefcakes but no techies? Good luck getting the 22+ by yourself. Even working together people had trouble making that check, and 3 of them? Was just mean.</p>
<p>Fifth, I read it as it said on the tactics. "Until Dead". It has no medicine to know if your proper dead or not, but the thing eliminated all sapient life on the planet. It surely understands the concept of a double tap. Few times this actually was the only reason people got out is that it would waste time to crush a downed PC even if it didn't need to. </p>
<p>Basically, this would be a great home game where I could come up with a way to bring them all back after a slaughter, but for PFS? This should have come with a bonekeep-esque warning, which is what i ended up giving every team that sat down after the first night to let them know how dangerous this mission was. Everybody had fun, but unless your willing to fudge numbers in the players direction, spoil things, or do other things to hamstring the scenario, the chances of it all going sideways are HUGE.</p>So... I ran this at Gencon. Bit of a rant/background. I'm a bit of a oldschool GM, how the Dice falls is how it happens. I don't want you to die, but I ain't gonna save you, and risk is a part of the game. You should sit down with the understanding that your character may die, and if you don't want that to happen, there are a LOT of better systems out their for that kind of gameplay than pathfinder.
With that said? This scenario was a bloody massacre. I had 2 TPKs, 2 tables where at least 3...GM_Starson (alias of Matthais777)2019-08-09T00:31:54ZRe: Forums: GM Discussion: Sfs 2-02: Waking the PastJERRY WAYNE 073https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42m20?Sfs-202-Waking-the-Past#122019-08-04T13:40:52Z2019-07-31T02:35:44Z<p>On the eve of hitting the road for Gencon, I thought I would share my Dr. Hsiung and Nanotech Golem custom minis. I'm looking forward to running this one in Indy this weekend, it is dark and creepy.</p>
<p><a href="https://imgur.com/PxHERW0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Waking the Past custom minis</a></p>On the eve of hitting the road for Gencon, I thought I would share my Dr. Hsiung and Nanotech Golem custom minis. I'm looking forward to running this one in Indy this weekend, it is dark and creepy.
Waking the Past custom minisJERRY WAYNE 0732019-07-31T02:35:44Z