Playing a character of the opposite gender


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Silver Crusade *

A tired tengu grandmother clad in shining full mithral plate leans slightly on a darkwood quarterstaff.

"You can try to force someone to do good things. It's not the same as them doing good things on their own because they won't a better person for it. And what one person's definition of 'good' is can be a bit variable depending on the circumstances. I'm not afraid to have humility and admit I've been wrong in the past. Being a decent person, though, you can learn from these mistakes, see why you made them, and be better in the future.

Or, in other words, don't go full-on preachy about how Heaven 'is the only the best place' and 'everything else is second-best'. A lot of folks take offense to this, and for understandable reasons. Just like folks who were born to a body that their spirit wasn't quite matching up with, or got messed up with from some strange ritualwork in an infernal lab. Or the folks that don't drink a stiff tea.

Folks don't know what's on your inside until you open your beak. Remembering that, it's somewhat sobering to make sure you don't have foulness come out of it.

Remember, the humility is the important part. It's not some grand gesture kind of thing, it's realizing the small quiet thing that we're all in this together, and hardships either toughen us up... or kill us."

Scarab Sages ***** Venture-Captain, Netherlands aka Woran

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Thankfully, if I'm sitting down with Thunderlips I have already prepared myself for that. :)
With calden caydens Alchemical bonus to the saves vs. wisdom damage?

Yes.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Tineke Bolleman wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Thankfully, if I'm sitting down with Thunderlips I have already prepared myself for that. :)
With calden caydens Alchemical bonus to the saves vs. wisdom damage?
Yes.

Also yes...

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Would a different policy have changed that outcome?

Yes though I have no clue what the policy is which is one of the more infuriating aspects of this.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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Then I would support such a policy if someone could articulate it.

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Loreguard wrote:
Actually, with that in mind, would it be reasonable to have a suggested practice of discussing a sort of rating-target for a game session, so people have a shared understanding of what their expectations or preferences are. As potentially simple as using moving ratings for a starting point.

I would be actively annoyed at having to go through such an activity before a game. If someone suggested it, I would set the mental filters to a level that is both mentally taxing and fun sponging.

Not organized play, but there is another convention I go to that is all about deep roleplay, with some very dark themes. Such a discussion happens before every game so every player is aware of topics and actions that would be problems. Also, every player has yellow and red cards so things can be toned down or stopped if there's a problem.

Do I think that's needed for organized play? Not at all. But there are systems out there for it.

BTW, in I think 8 years of this convention, only two games have come from pfs, and they were not done as organized play games so that I could make them a bit darker and streamline out some things. They were still on the lighter side for the convention. The first was long ago and I don't remember which. The other was Twisted Circle.

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

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Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Then I would support such a policy if someone could articulate it.

Ok. I'm it's going to flat out state my issue. Reporting harassment and other issues in Organized Play doesn't work. It's pointless and a function in pain. And the reason why I can't articulate a policy is because Paizo is so opaque that at times all In seeing is often people just yelling at Paizo about how horrible they are. And they're not wrong. Paizo's behavior from my experience is pretty horrible.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Then having a policy won't make a difference as the current one isn't being enforced.

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
Then having a policy won't make a difference as the current one isn't being enforced.

Also the other problem with your argument is that I don't know what the policy is. Im hoping that there is no policy because the alternative policy is just to favor profit and other factors over safety.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I'm not arguing anything, I'm trying to clarify what you want Paizo to do.

Silver Crusade *****

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I'm not arguing anything, I'm trying to clarify what you want Paizo to do.

I can't speak for MadScientist but what I want Paizo (and by Paizo I include the semi-separate Organized Play organization) to do is to

1) Have a clearly articulated policy that is visibly followed on all occassions. And I think that this policy has to include very clear and visible actions taken against people who are found to have violated that policy.

2) Be more proactive in putting in place policies to make it clear what behaviour is and is not acceptable, and to make it easier and safer for people to complain about unacceptable behaviour. The onus for this should NOT be on event organizers. To take a simple example, I think the X Card (or something similar) should be absolutely mandatory at all PFS events hosted in public spaces.

My biggest problem right now with Paizo's policy is how secretive it all is.

I also think that, wherever possible, they have to try and get third parties involved. Paizo or organized play officials investigating allegations against Paizo or organized play isn't good enough, especially when the end result is "an investigation was performed and appropriate action was taken".

I recognize that there are difficulties and even costs in implementing this. But I think it is the only way that the current culture can change.

I don't know the truth of the various accusations against Paizo but they're pretty damning. And until Paizo changes its policy it is very hard to defend Paizo against the accusations (if such defence is actually warranted).

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

Community Behavior Policy

Silver Crusade *****

Steven Lau wrote:
Community Behavior Policy

Yes, I've seen it. Very inadequate in my opinion.

***** ⦵⦵⦵

Paul Jackson wrote:


Yes, I've seen it. Very inadequate in my opinion.

Do you have an example of an adequate solution?

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Steven Lau wrote:
Community Behavior Policy

Where in that policy is there a protocol to handle harassment cases for people like myself who regularly schedules events? Its just completely arbitrary.

Silver Crusade *****

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Paul Jackson wrote:


Yes, I've seen it. Very inadequate in my opinion.

Do you have an example of an adequate solution?

More than what I said above? Not really. But I'd certainly start by looking at other successful policies.

I'm definitely NOT saying that I have the answers. Nor am I remotely denying that this is a difficult problem to address (and probably impossible to fully solve)

But, to restate what I said above, I think simple steps like a mandatory X card at all tables and a clearly defined policy explaining exactly how investigations are to be undertaken would be a significant improvement.

That policy quoted above, for example, talks about contacting your Venture Agent. But I know that I AM a Venture Agent and have never been given ANY instruction or training on what to actually do. That isn't a policy, it's a PR statement. A policy would have specific steps to be followed, specific information to be gathered, people to be contacted, etc.

I've worked for companies with policies on things like harrassment. Those policies cover things like that in great detail

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage aka Dragnmoon

SO what you are both actually asking for is training for the VO core on how to handle harassment or other cases that go against the Community policy.

That may not be a bad idea, maybe Paizo can release a few Video tutorials for the VO core on best ways to handle cases that go against the community policies.

Silver Crusade *****

Steven Lau wrote:

SO what you are both actually asking for is training for the VO core on how to handle harassment or other cases that go against the Community policy.

That may not be a bad idea, maybe Paizo can release a few Video tutorials for the VO core on best ways to handle cases that go against the community policies.

That is part of what I am asking for, yes. But only part

***** ⦵⦵⦵

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Work could only get us to watch those videos because it was either July and the alternative was black topping or it was november and the alternative was doing a polar bear challenge in the roadside drains.

Even then it was a close call as to what I'd rather be doing.

***** ⦵⦵

Kate Baker wrote:
roysier wrote:
For example, my very first PFS female character thinks everyone else is beneath her and she uses her super good looks to take advantage of the opposite sex. So, if there is a role -playing encounter where there is a NPC male that we are having problems getting information from. I will literally describe to the GM how my character is flirting. I will often tell the GM (after reminding him of my picture and Super high Charisma (32),) Something like- ” I walk up really close behind him barely brushing up against him, I let him smell my scent and I lightly blow in his ear.” If that doesn’t work I might go on further and start hinting at something special later.
This would make me extremely uncomfortable. Extremely.

I’m going to beat a dead horse. I’ve had a difficult time trying to explain this situation and I think I’ve formulated a way to make it clear.

I know people’s opinion is role playing flirting behaviors is over the top and should not be used. And that’s cool. I frankly didn’t know that this behavior was unsettling to others. In my mind we are in make believe world not a real one.

If I cut the roie-playing out of the situation and go strictly game mechanics I’m making a bluff check to influence a Npc to do something equivalent to a charm person spell. My character is pretending to like the male npc and I’m using this to my advantage, My character is using him and she has no intention of interacting with this person ever again. It’s the equivalent of someone going on a date for free food even though they already know right after dinner they never want to see this person again. Or someone at a bar is pretending to be interested with someone for the sole purpose of getting them to buy drinks.

The reason I created this character is in a fantasy setting I thought it would be interesting to role play behaviors through a character that I find abhorrent. She lies, she leads people on, she pretends to be in to someone for self-gain, she leaves people hanging high and dry, she breaks promises, the list goes on and on. All of this behavior is only targeted to NPC’s, never player characters.

This leads to the gender I chose. I am male I didn’t want this behavior of the character to be mistaken for behavior I approved. So, I made her female. there are other reason for this choice, Onc was to create more of a division between real life and fantasy world. Also, when I created this character I thought it would create issues with players if it was male on female, based on the s$!% that goes on in society, But I didn’t know if it would create problems with players if it was female to male. When I first started playing this character, I was watching how people reacted to this s+&#ty behavior. It didn’t seem to create any issues, ot seemed to inspire role playing in others. so I drew the conclusion that I could carry on it wouldn’t cause problems.

I know the main issue people had was with the my post was the descriptive language I was using to describe flirting, but in actuality, I have never knowingly flited in my life. Outside of about 5 flirting behaviors, I’m completely naïve of what a flirting behavior is. I had a shocker about 6 months ago when I found out I was being flirted on for several weeks through compliments and flattery. I thought the person was being nice. I had no idea that flattery is a form of flirting when targeted at someone single who is in a gender group you are attracted too. So, that means -I’ve been screwing some stuff up in my life. When I first meet people, I sometimes compliment people to be nice, to try to cheer them up, or to bring up a new topic of conversation. So, when I do that to a single female I was displaying flirting behavior without knowing it. And I have probably done this hundreds of times in my life.

***** ⦵⦵⦵

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Roysier wrote:
. I’ve had a difficult time trying to explain this situation and I think I’ve formulated a way to make it clear.

I don't think the problem is a lack of clarity

*** ⦵⦵ Contributor

Roy, I think we’d be better off continuing this conversation offline.

***** ⦵⦵

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Roysier wrote:
. I’ve had a difficult time trying to explain this situation and I think I’ve formulated a way to make it clear.
I don't think the problem is a lack of clarity

I do, by trying to shorten the first post that created problems I left stuff out that gave an impression that I created a female character for the sole purpose of hitting on male characters and that's not the case. That character is not even hitting on people.

I know that character should never been created in first place. At the time I wanted to explore the role playing that would come out of it.

I don't really have more to say on the subject.

Silver Crusade *****

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Work could only get us to watch those videos because it was either July and the alternative was black topping or it was november and the alternative was doing a polar bear challenge in the roadside drains.

Even then it was a close call as to what I'd rather be doing.

Lol.

We hold a local con as part of FanExpo (Canadian Comicon, basically). All the gaming volunteers are officially FanExpo volunteers (we get a T shirt and everything :-):-))

As part of the process, we have to read some info and answer a brief questionnaire. All online so in practice you read a question, look at the info until you find the answer, and then answer it. Takes maybe 10 minutes tops.

Most of the stuff is pretty obvious but it actually DOES work to make sure the volunteers have some vague awareness of stuff.

Paizo could easily implement something like that as part of the process of becoming a VA. Very imperfect but still HUGELY better than what we have now.

And far less problematic, to me at least, than the NDA we have to sign. I spent a LOT more than 10 minutes reading and thinking about that

**** Venture-Agent, Tennessee—Chattanooga aka ZenithTN

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Leg o' Lamb wrote:
Gregory Rebelo wrote:

All Thunderlips aside, I think its important to explore other personas in this hobby. Obviously not ones that are disruptive or hurtful to others. Lacking the first-hand knowledge as to how those characters behave should invite introspection into ... well... how those characters behave.

Steven, do you remember having to tone down Thunderlips? If so could you describe the mental/social process?

There was a table at one PaizoCon past where a woman had an adverse reaction (Wow... WOW... WOW) to my standard character intro speech for THUNDERLIPS!. She did not say "This makes me uncomfortable" or "Can you please not refer to it as a 'chest pelt'?" but it was very clear she had an issue with the way I described him. Within thirty seconds I knew one player at the table had an issue. So I just played a regular barbarian for that scenario and that was that. The chicken was a chicken and nothing more.

If a GM or another player asks me to keep the chicken jokes to a minimum or none at all before the game starts I will happily comply.

** spoiler omitted **

Tha.... that's fowl! There, I said it.

***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Australia—NSW—Sydney aka Nik B.

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Reading all this makes me happy I am in Australia and attending conventions where this loose behaviour is quite rare, and when it does get questionable it gets handled quickly.

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Steven Lau wrote:

SO what you are both actually asking for is training for the VO core on how to handle harassment or other cases that go against the Community policy.

That may not be a bad idea, maybe Paizo can release a few Video tutorials for the VO core on best ways to handle cases that go against the community policies.

No it's more than that. To be perfectly honest a large part of my problem is that it appears Tonya is functionally useless regarding harassment. Or appears to be functionally useless. I don't necessarily blame her for that situation but that's reality. And what this results in is there is no accountability after a certain point. And that can be a problem especially when you add Paizo's secretive nature.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

So you are requesting that the Organized Play Foundation or Paizo take on legal responsibility/accountability for disputed incidents of harassment that happen at a local comic book store?

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Kevin Willis wrote:
So you are requesting that the Organized Play Foundation or Paizo take on legal responsibility/accountability for disputed incidents of harassment that happen at a local comic book store?

No. I'm asking that they take harassment claims against their volunteers seriously.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

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Adam Yakaboski wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
So you are requesting that the Organized Play Foundation or Paizo take on legal responsibility/accountability for disputed incidents of harassment that happen at a local comic book store?
No. I'm asking that they take harassment claims against their volunteers seriously.

And do what?

This is why people are confused by your posts. What does “take harassment claims seriously” mean? What do you want the Organized Play Foundation to do? Ban harassers from participating in OPF games worldwide? Publish a “known harassers” list? Provide counseling?

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Kevin Willis wrote:
Adam Yakaboski wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
So you are requesting that the Organized Play Foundation or Paizo take on legal responsibility/accountability for disputed incidents of harassment that happen at a local comic book store?
No. I'm asking that they take harassment claims against their volunteers seriously.

And do what?

This is why people are confused by your posts. What does “take harassment claims seriously” mean? What do you want the Organized Play Foundation to do? Ban harassers from participating in OPF games worldwide? Publish a “known harassers” list? Provide counseling?

To make a long story short a volunteer for organized play bungled my harassment so badly that it was worst than my harassment and left me with severe panic attacks for months. Paizo/Organized Play may or may not have known this was an issue. I really just want to know what they themselves knew and if they did screw it up for them to fix it.

And that's why I was hemming and hawing. I really feel awkward even saying that.

Grand Lodge ***** ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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Adam,

I really appreciate your bravery here. It's hard to come forward with harassment complaints in any situation. I do think that you need to write to Tonya directly in this case, and let her know what happened. I do wish that we had better volunteer training in OPF on how to deal with harassment complaints.

We had to deal with a local issue that happened out of our sight, after the close of a store recently. We took the complaint seriously, talked with both parties separately, and issued a warning. The person we warned was a bit on the clueless side, and was really apologetic, and has changed their behavior. So we made progress this time.

But a lot of the time, we don't hear harassment complaints because people are scared or nervous to come forward. I can keep a welcoming atmosphere at my table, but what happens before or after a game session is out of my control.

One issue that I have as an Organizer is that oftentimes I don't personally see what's happening. OPF (especially MN-POP) was completely welcoming to me, and treated me as a credible gamer and GM from the very beginning. Because I have not been personally harassed in OPF, I have to put aside my rose-colored glasses when hearing other people's stories, and try to look at what happened through their eyes. Still, I want every gamer, no matter the gender, to have the same kind of great experience when playing with us.

I'm hoping that eventually we will all get it, and create respectful characters and have welcoming diverse tables. We've made strides. I love that Paizo's been proactive with LGBTQIA representation, and I get excited every time I get a game with a more diverse group of players.

Hmm

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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One of the things that people forget or may not be aware of, Organized Play is not Paizo. They are two separate entities. Paizo produces content for the program and provides the rules under which the campaign operates, but management of the volunteers is outside their purview for the most part. If they get directly involved in the disciplinary action, especially if it involved a volunteer like VOs, they have to be careful that the relationship does not appear as employer-employee.

When an issue like harassment occurs, there isn't much that Paizo can directly do, unless the incident occurred on their property or an event like PaizoCon. In other cases, the volunteer Venture-Officers are the ones responsible for dealing with the aftermath and most of us are not trained human resource personel or crisis counselors. There is little we can do outside of investigating the incident, trying to determine the seriousness (and yes sometimes the legitimacy) of the claim, and at worst ban the offender from events we personally organize. I can easily prevent someone from participating in events in my immediate area, but unless the organizers in another areas honor my decision, the offender can just go right along playing. In fact, unless the issue is such that the offender is banned from a game store, they could just organize their own events and there isn't much I can do about it.

I'm not saying do bother reporting the incident, but we need to manage our expectations regarding what action can/will be taken in response to an incident. Unless an offender commits a crime that is pursued by law enforcement, there is not a lot of "justice" that can be enacted. "Take harassment claims seriously" is a fairly subjective position and hard to maintain with any consistency.

Silver Crusade *****

Bob Jonquet wrote:
In other cases, the volunteer Venture-Officers are the ones responsible for dealing with the aftermath

The fact that the Organized Play is not Paizo does NOT mean that Organized Play has no responsibilities.

Organized Play should have clear procedures that are clearly documented and applied. Organized Play should be able to ban people.

And Paizo should give Organized Play whatever support it needs to do that.

I understand that the separation of the two has become necessary because of the "Implied employment" thing but it IS primarily a legal fiction. Certainly in the eyes of just about EVERYBODY it is a fiction. Organized Play is seen as part of Paizo. Rightfully so in my mind since Paizo sets the policies, gives it its budget, etc.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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I didn’t say Organized Play has no responsibilities, I said there are limitations to what they can do. Perception is what it is, but it doesn’t change the fact that Paizo does not generally get directly involved in issues regarding player behavior. Whether we agree with it or not isn’t relevant. It simply falls to the volunteer leadership to deal with these issues. Even when someone specifically tries to get Paizo involved by sending an email to Tonya, she contacts the applicable RVC and they begin an investigation involving the VOs under their leadership tree. What happens after that and how an incident is dealt with depends a lot on the people involved and the nature of the complaint. We have general guidelines how we deal with these issues, but they are left intentionally vague in order to allow the leadership to take circumstances into account and have the flexibility to address each situation as a unique occurrence and tailor an appropriate response.

In my experience having dealt with a number of these issues, the system generally works just fine. In most cases, the people who complain the most are those on the periphery that are not directly involved, do not know all the facts, and make speculative commentary.

Would it be nice if Paizo had the flexibility to address these issues themselves? Maybe, but given the fact that the OPM already has more work to do than hours in the day, if we expect they to get directly involved in every claim of bad behavior in the community, we would be even more disappointed in the results. Not to mention that just because someone has “Paizo staffer” next to their name doesn’t mean they are any more equipped to deal with issues of bad behavior than the VOs who are already doing it. Even professionally trained crisis councilors sometimes get “it” wrong.

Silver Crusade *****

Bob Jonquet wrote:
I didn’t say Organized Play has no responsibilities, I said there are limitations to what they can do.

There are limitations, yes.

However, they certainly COULD have a clearly articulated, publicized and followed policy. They certainly COULD make sure that Venture Agents are at least somewhat aware of said policy. They certainly COULD TRY to make sure that policy is actually followed. And they certainly COULD ban people from participating in PFS as a whole, not just on a regional or sub regional basis.

Quote:
In my experience having dealt with a number of these issues, the system generally works just fine

My experience is certainly less than yours (in fact, its a subset of yours). But in my limited experience the system is most certainly NOT working just fine.

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Bob Jonquet wrote:

In my experience having dealt with a number of these issues, the system generally works just fine. In most cases, the people who complain the most are those on the periphery that are not directly involved, do not know all the facts, and make speculative commentary.

As a Venture Agent I once intervened into a situation that a Paizo employee was publicly upset and angry about how the company was handling it. Suffice to say that the employee was correct and somehow this was not an isolated incident. I have no indication that anyone else did anything which is scary because I kind of just blundered into it.

Quote:
Even when someone specifically tries to get Paizo involved by sending an email to Tonya, she contacts the applicable RVC and they begin an investigation involving the VOs under their leadership tree.

Huh.... Why isn't that policy listed anywhere because that's kind of important to know?

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

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Because we do not have a Director in charge of the OPF who would be managing those expectations, updating the OPF website, and approving/providing documentation to the VOs and community.

However, as has been said many times, whenever there is an issue in the community the escalation process is:
Table GM
Event Organizer
Venture-Agent
Venture-Lieutenant
Venture-Captain
Regional Venture-Coordinator

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Paul Jackson wrote:
My biggest problem right now with Paizo's policy is how secretive it all is.

"Secretive" is a loaded word. "Discreet" more appropriately describes what's happening here.

We recognize that if Larry harasses Laura during a PFS game, there are people that aren't going to be satisfied unless we make a public statement that Larry has been banned from PFS for harrassment. But we cannot and will not make statements like that—even if that's exactly what the result of our investigation is.

For one thing, we are not law enforcement, so we are not in a legal position to make that sort of declaration. (If we did, we could be sued to the ground.) For another thing, the vast majority of the things we investigate are situations where there is ultimately some doubt. I know: you might think that if something like that happens at a table full of people, you'd have a half-dozen witnesses who all agree on what happened, but you'd be surprised how infrequently it turns out that way. If we think there's a reasonable chance that Larry misbehaved, we will err on the side of our community's safety and comfort... but we're going to do that discreetly; it's not appropriate for our response to be used as evidence in the court of public opinion.

I realize that it's hard to trust when you can't see behind the screen, but that screen is there because it's incredibly important. Not only does it prevent possible injustice to someone who may be wrongfully accused, as well as some legal protection to Paizo and the OPF, but it also often provides comfort to the aggrieved party. If you need an example of that, please see this thread.

Actually, even if you don't need that example, read that thread anyway. If you're not aware of the background, a bunch of people on the internet (and even some of our own employees) were being critical of how we were handling an issue—even though none of those criticizing us had any actual insight into our investigation or its results (apart from some of them being interviewed as witnesses, which is where their direct involvement ended). Yet the victim herself, who was kept apprised of how we were handling things, was entirely satisfied with our actions, and appreciated our discreet handling of the matter.

The bottom line is that we handle these things as discreetly as possible—meaning that even our own employees don't see behind the screen beyond any extent that they are directly involved—and the outcome of each is disseminated strictly on a need-to-know basis. I am hopeful that you can make peace with that, because it's not going to change.

Silver Crusade *****

I have been told that "It is not appropriate for VOs to be "arguing" over how the organization operates in the public forum" and ordered to desist.

So, I'll bow out of this discussion. Please do not take my failure to respond as in any way conceeding that I am wrong or agreeing that Organized play is doing as good a job as it can. I have been ordered to shut up so I am.

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Manager

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Adam Yakaboski wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
Adam Yakaboski wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
So you are requesting that the Organized Play Foundation or Paizo take on legal responsibility/accountability for disputed incidents of harassment that happen at a local comic book store?
No. I'm asking that they take harassment claims against their volunteers seriously.

And do what?

This is why people are confused by your posts. What does “take harassment claims seriously” mean? What do you want the Organized Play Foundation to do? Ban harassers from participating in OPF games worldwide? Publish a “known harassers” list? Provide counseling?

To make a long story short a volunteer for organized play bungled my harassment so badly that it was worst than my harassment and left me with severe panic attacks for months. Paizo/Organized Play may or may not have known this was an issue. I really just want to know what they themselves knew and if they did screw it up for them to fix it.

And that's why I was hemming and hawing. I really feel awkward even saying that.

The response I was composing posted after several others, so I've edited it for redundancy and clarity.

As Bob said, Paizo and OPF are different. Right now, I wear both hats, though that is something we are looking to change. With the split between program and communities/volunteer, the RVCs are taking more oversight of their communities.
Thus, any issues arising in an area is sent back to RVC for handling (unless it is issues with a RVC, which are handled by myself.) They may go back to a Venture-Captain, since handling an issue at the closest level provides more personal handling and allows people familiar with the personalities to help with the resolution. This does not stop anyone from up channeling issues.

We all want positive tables and the team is committed to supporting activities that help players enjoy their games. All players. All games. Period. I appreciate the thought of universal X cards, but that brings with it a different set of problems and potentials for abuse. We are looking at some other tools we can use to empower GMS and players so that everyone leaves having a positive experience. Where criminal activity occurs, we encourage our community members to reach out to the relevant authorities and will support any efforts in doing so, as we are not equipped to handle such issues.

Adam, to your issue. I am sorry it wasn't handled well. I was not aware of it until this thread (and the [REDACTED] blog thread). Please forward any communication you have on the issue to the organizedplay@paizo.com email so that I can review the handling and see where we can adjust/learn from procedures.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

Vic Wertz wrote:
If you need an example of that, please see this thread.

Similar information can be found at the top of the Community Guidelines page. LINK

Scarab Sages *****

Thanks a lot for this thread. It made it clear to me I should have quit PFS a long time ago.

I also notice Paul Jackson is no longer on the Venture Agent list. I wonder why...

*** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Tonya Woldridge wrote:
Adam, to your issue. I am sorry it wasn't handled well. I was not aware of it until this thread (and the [REDACTED] blog thread).

Tonya I want to contact you and you alone because you actually do know what's going on. Not to the extent that I talked about in that thread because even I didn't find out until a recently. But I know you do have a file on this person or at least someone does. And on top of that you have two other people with first hand experience that you can ask yourself about how they felt. This is a dangerous situation for the reason Vic actually stated. All of that stuff I talked about in that thread resulted from people actively speaking out. And your average Organized Play volunteer isn't going to have any clue how to handle it and possibly exasperate the situation like what happened with me on a minor scale. Though the stakes are a lot more higher than me just being angry. They could inadvertently ricochet the harassment onto any number people including themselves which no one deserves.

I'll definitely make sure to resend the email.

LucianC wrote:

Thanks a lot for this thread. It made it clear to me I should have quit PFS a long time ago.

I also notice Paul Jackson is no longer on the Venture Agent list. I wonder why...

Awww... I only wanted myself to get into trouble here if anyone was to. I didn't want anyone else to.

EDIT:
Also, Tonya for the love of god don't kick this down to anyone else.

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Manager

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Adam Yakaboski wrote:
Tonya Woldridge wrote:
Adam, to your issue. I am sorry it wasn't handled well. I was not aware of it until this thread (and the [REDACTED] blog thread).

Tonya I want to contact you and you alone because you actually do know what's going on. Not to the extent that I talked about in that thread because even I didn't find out until a recently. But I know you do have a file on this person or at least someone does. And on top of that you have two other people with first hand experience that you can ask yourself about how they felt. This is a dangerous situation for the reason Vic actually stated. All of that stuff I talked about in that thread resulted from people actively speaking out. And your average Organized Play volunteer isn't going to have any clue how to handle it and possibly exasperate the situation like what happened with me on a minor scale. Though the stakes are a lot more higher than me just being angry. They could inadvertently ricochet the harassment onto any number people including themselves which no one deserves.

I'll definitely make sure to resend the email.
EDIT:
Also, Tonya for the love of god don't kick this down to anyone else.

Never assume any of us know anything. I may have information on the person you are describing, but as I can't bring that name to mind I am not sure I do. Without some information, I'm not sure of whom you are recommending I speak to and I cannot proceed without information. I look forward to receiving your email.

I will reiterate - if this is a criminal matter please involve the authorities. If you feel in danger, please involve the authorities. You note an average Org Play volunteer doesn't know how to handle it. I would point out I am not a trained responder either. There are those with the knowledge and ability to help and I HIGHLY recommend community members use those resources.

At this time, we are way off the original topic and into potential sensitive situations that are not appropriate for a public forum. I am going to close the thread. If anyone has information on an issue in the community, you can email me direct at organizedplay@paizo.com.

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