How generous should a temple of Iomedae be?


Advice


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm running an AP, and one of the party members contracted a pair of diseases: leprosy and red ache. He's a paladin of Sarenrae and is looking for a cure but the only easily accessible temples are Iomedae and Abadar. Abadar is going to charge for any services rendered, because well Abadar. But since Sarenrae and Iomedae are allies, the player is arguing that they would provide free services to rid him of these diseases. I contend that if he were a paladin of Iomedae, they would help for free but curing diseases is a risky business, and is by no means a certain thing. Would churches really offer free services to outsiders of the faith? I'm not so sure.

Any thoughts? Would they extract services for the cure in lieu of money?


When I think about medieval hospitals run by the church, I think about obligatory attendance in religious ceremonies... and a lot of them. Since Iomedae faith is most christian-ish, I would use them as parallel especially to the hospitals run by Knight Hospitalers in the Holy Land. In practice that would mean that before a skilled senior cleric (min lvl 5th, that's not so common) attends to you with Remove Disease, you're supposed to attend some ceremonies, say your prayers and listen to sermon.

That is if you're poor and unable to pay. The rich are very well expected to pay for the service, and may be refused healing if they don't want to support the religious community.


Sarenrae's church may offer their services to him for "free" in exchange for some service to the church. He is, after all, a Paladin of Iomedae and therefor a righteous man with deep convictions. Just the sort of person they need assistance from, to help them with this small/medium/large problem that they aren't able to manage at the moment because their resources are spread so thin. And of course, as a Paladin, his word is good, so once you're healed up, just step on over into my office and I'll tell you what we need you to do...


I could see reduced prices, since we are talking about a paladin (an Iomedae is generally in favor of those)... but I doubt that it would be completely free.

Spells required experienced experts, and spell slots are limited in each day (the temple might only have a few on hand that have spells of that level). While games are often highly player centric, this is not a practical view in setting. The clerics need to keep at least some of their spells in reserve in case of an emergency, and using up those spell slots will temporarily reduce their reserves. As such, it is hard to justify free services when there is not an immediate emergency, or if the injury is not related to an quest from this temple/lord of the area/etc (in which case, you ARE the emergency).

Additionally, I would imagine that the market price of spells would face serious problems if temples offered free services left and right- I would expect a STRONGLY WORDED LETTER from the church of Abadar as a result. There might be long standing inter-faith agreements that would limit attempts to undercut eachother's prices in order to attract believers.


I think asking for services instead of money is fine, as long as the other players don't mind a side-quest. If it's just one player having a hissy-fit because he doesn't want to pay the expected rate to have a spell cast then tell him to suck it up. Hiring an NPC to cast a spell is something that costs money, just like wands/potions/armour/etc.

If the player were going to their own god's church I might view this differently, but even then they'd probably be expected to pay any material costs.

Also what level/archetype are they? Most Paladins are immune to diseases from 3rd level (this includes supernatural diseases etc).


Oh yes- agreed- a side quest would be a very reasonable price for the treatment. Maybe some minor monsters, or doing a stake out for some thieves.


MrCharisma wrote:
I think asking for services instead of money is fine, as long as the other players don't mind a side-quest.

Yes. This.


I agree, from a player, a quest may be appropriate. Although, one casting of a single lvl 3 spell has market value of 150 gp, and if we take a look on the table of Treasures per Enncounter, it can be gained in a single CR 1/2 - CR 1 encounter. Also looking at the table NPC Gear we can see that a single NPC with one heroic level carries enough gear to pay for healing, even if it all needs be sold at 1/2 price. That means that smart people wouldn't agree on a difficult quest if they can get the money for the healing much easier.

You'd need to make it so that the temple of Iomade does not accept gold as payment, and it only provides healing in return for service (quests for skilled adventurers, for example service in the militia or city watch for commoners), or the quest they offer are not as difficult to be rejected. Since such quests may not be very enticing to the players, you may make them a simply downtime expenditure (if viable). For example, the player's paladin gets healed, but in return, he's asking to share his knowledge of a different fighting style with the trainees, a task that may take a week or two of downtime, (mechanicaly, he was retraining an NPC's feat for free).


If the player wants to invoke Iomedae & Sarenrae's alliance, you could semi-formalize that. "Now that you think about it, you recall being taught of the agreement that I&S's churches would heal each other's paladins in exchange for a mere <minor quest / some downtime / smaller fee / whatever>, so you could certainly call on that." Just make it something that you'll be happy to stick with if it comes up again.


MrCharisma wrote:

I think asking for services instead of money is fine, as long as the other players don't mind a side-quest. If it's just one player having a hissy-fit because he doesn't want to pay the expected rate to have a spell cast then tell him to suck it up. Hiring an NPC to cast a spell is something that costs money, just like wands/potions/armour/etc.

If the player were going to their own god's church I might view this differently, but even then they'd probably be expected to pay any material costs.

Also what level/archetype are they? Most Paladins are immune to diseases from 3rd level (this includes supernatural diseases etc).

I was thinking same thing! lvl 3+ Most Paladins are immune to Disease, depending on Archetype if it changes any thing from base class.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

The party is 1st level, so no immunity for the paladin much to his annoyance. I see that free spell casting seems like a bridge too far. Providing service in exchange or payment at a reduced fee seems reasonable to me. The fact that there is a miss chance, as it is a DC check of 15, means that the 5th level cleric has a 50-50 shot of curing him, and so likely will need 2 castings to remove the diseases.

As it turned out the cleric needed 3 casting to free the paladin of both diseases. 450 gp at standard rates, which for a 1st level party is a lot.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A quick CR 2 side mission is right in order, perhaps a roving band of goblins needs to be dealt with.


It is possible the temple could provide the healing today for expected payment in the future. Paladins are fairly trustworthy debtors; but, as adventurers, are also rather death-prone.

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