If you have a subscription you will be receiving an email almost identical to this post as well.
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Great policy, I applaud your forethought and fairness.
Thanks for letting us know!
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Honestly not a fan of this in fact overall I think this is a very bad idea and dosent really solve the fairness issue at all (Since some people will be getting books earlier than others) Also if the 1e pathfinder launch is anything to go by I can see the site getting hammerd as everyone attempts to download there PDF'S at once
Chief Technical Officer
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The 1E launch was 10 years ago! Our infrastructure (like the rest of the world) has advanced considerably since then. For a more recent example of high load on our site, allow me to point you to a thread started during the lead-up to last year's playtest PDF release with the charming title What's the over / under odds on website meltdown when 2E is released?
It begins with a page and a half of comments like "I'd say there's about a 100% chance that the website crashes for at least several hours when the playtest PDF drops," "I don't expect to be able to download the play test PDF until it's been out for a week or two," and "i fully expect the website to die repeatedly and for long periods."
And then the playtest PDFs were released (August 2 at 6 AM Pacific if you're looking at timestamps), and it turns to things like this: "Well that was surprisingly painless. Well done Paizo!" "Yep, took about a minute to personalize it/package it, and now it's downloading at a decent clip," "well, I was wrong. No server meltdown. I succesfully downloaded all PDF documents in a zipped bundle in about 30 seconds," and "Very pleasantly surprised at how easy and painless it was."
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I still dont get the fairness angle since by that argument why is it okay that someone could get there physical copy the day after shipping starts yet another person could be waiting the 3 full weeks(plus more depending where it's being deliverd to.) In either the physical or digital case some people are going to get it long before others.
Yeah, so?
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We can't control the postal service, but we can control the release of the PDF. Doing so minimizes that unfairness as much as is possible.
And this is at most a once per decade thing.
I don't see what there is to complain about, Your game is not being impacted by other people getting the rules before you.
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They can ensure that the digital reward release is equal across the board. That is the point.
and really all for the sake of 1 week diffrence over normal?No, almost three and a half weeks difference.
No 1 week since normally the subscriptions ship two and a half weeks before as said at the top of this thread so why is someone getting it two and a half weeks early okay but three and a half weeks a no-no?
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No 1 week since normally the subscriptions ship two and a half weeks before as said at the top of this thread so why is someone getting it two and a half weeks early okay but three and a half weeks a no-no?
Paizo's estimation of how non-subscribers feel as well as the range that occurs between subscribers.
I don't see what there is to complain about, Your game is not being impacted by other people getting the rules before you.Then by your own logic it shouldent make a diffrence if the PDF'S are made available as soon as subscriptions ship as normal should it?
I don't really care if I have to wait three more weeks or not. August 1 was the date that was communicated from the start, so that is what I have been expecting. If I get my books earlier, that's fine, but it doesn't actually matter. I don't feel slighted if someone gets their book before me.
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So I'm not getting the fairness angle as to why there keeping the PDF's locked since your still going to have people getting copies of all the stuff long before others either way and all over as little as a 1 week diffrence on what it would normally be for the PDF's.
It doesn’t eliminate the perceived inequity, it just reduces it (since early access is delayed and will be granted to fewer people).
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I pay extra for priority mail, it's worth it.
I pay extra for priority mail, it's worth it.
Hmmm.... I may have to consider that....
Then again -- Even if I picked "Next Day Air", they could still ship my order last, couldn't they?
I pay extra for priority mail, it's worth it.Hmmm.... I may have to consider that....
My packages almost always arrive in two days, I live 2,000+ miles away.
Edit: Generally, with priority mail my subs are shipped sooner than when I didn't.
I pay extra for priority mail, it's worth it.Hmmm.... I may have to consider that....
Then again -- Even if I picked "Next Day Air", they could still ship my order last, couldn't they?
I get my subscriptions through priority mail and since 2013 I've never been at the end of a shipping window. Usually I'm within the first couple of days, at most a week. They are pretty darn good at moving out the product. It's well worth the extra couple of dollars.
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I’ve paid for the quickest shipping method before and gone last, although I’m international which might be a meaningful factor.
My understanding is that (at least in part) they group subscribers into “batches” of identical orders so that they can churn through them as efficiently as possible. Those who don’t match up with other subscribers get processed through the shipping window in whichever way makes most sense for the warehouse crew. My guess is that the way to maximise your chances of going early is to order a collection of products that a lot of other subscribers have mirrored.
I’ve anecdotally found that preorders of non-Paizo products nearly always push me to close to last. It’s not a big enough sample to be significant (and has spanned many computer systems and no doubt an ever-evolving algorithm) nonetheless, I try hard to set preorders up to go in their own order now, rather than sending them through my sidecart. Beyond that I cross my fingers and try to focus my hopes on the last day of shipping, rather than the first.
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In any case, I did change my prefered shipping method to UPS International for this release. Being in europe, I hope to get these books a bit faster than usual (pretty much a month after the PDF is released for me), but I guess they won't arrive before August.
I'm glad the PDF's are all set to be available on August 1st, for all of us subscribers and non-subscribers alike.
In any case, I did change my prefered shipping method to UPS International for this release. Being in europe, I hope to get these books a bit faster than usual (pretty much a month after the PDF is released for me), but I guess they won't arrive before August.
I'm glad the PDF's are all set to be available on August 1st, for all of us subscribers and non-subscribers alike.
I’ve had nothing but good experiences with UPS International. The transit time is much shorter than the other methods. (It’s not cheap, of course, but it’s my preferred option when I don’t go cheapest.
My one disappointment is that they don’t ship to PO Boxes.
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Now that subscription orders have begun shipping, we expect that anyone who did not hear this news will have concerns over their PDFs. Please feel free to direct anyone who is indicating that they do not yet have this information to this thread to keep the community knowledge as up-to-date as possible. Thanks all!
Hm. Why is the situation treated any differently than than the inherent unfairness in suscription releases of the last decade, where some customers by the luck of the draw get their digital products one or more weeks later than the lucky ones who go first in the shipping roulette?
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Hm. Why is the situation treated any differently than than the inherent unfairness in suscription releases of the last decade, where some customers by the luck of the draw get their digital products one or more weeks later than the lucky ones who go first in the shipping roulette?
From the OP:
"This is almost three and a half weeks before the release date. We feel that if the PDFs for our new releases become available to a small number of subscribers lucky enough to be at the front of the shipping window, we are promoting an unfair environment for other subscribers who may be at the end of the shipping queue or picking up their subscriptions at Gen Con, for fans who are not subscribers and are unable to get access to the PDF or a physical copy before August 1, and for the retailers who carry our products in their stores."
It seems they're willing to wear a little inequity month-by-month when it's only a week or two, but that three and a half weeks was too much.
(I daresay that there's also a perceived qualitative difference in that it's a whole new game rather than just a new adventure/sourcebook/supplement - I'm pretty sure they did the same when the PF1 CRB came out, so it's consistent with that).
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As an aside - at least one customer is reporting they did get access to AP144, but not AP145, so it looks like PDFs of the PF1 products may be available once the order has shipped, as per usual.
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(I daresay that there's also a perceived qualitative difference in that it's a whole new game rather than just a new adventure/sourcebook/supplement - I'm pretty sure they did the same when the PF1 CRB came out, so it's consistent with that).
It is, in fact, exactly what happened. PDFs went live the first day of GenCon, and the website was down all GenCon weekend so those of us whose shipments hadn't arrived yet (me) couldn't even get our downloads of the shiny new PFRPG CRB.
Of course, since then, Paizo has had the Playtest release run like clockwork, with no downtime, so I am more sanguine about being able to download the PDFs August 1st if my physical shipment hasn't gotten here by then.
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(I daresay that there's also a perceived qualitative difference in that it's a whole new game rather than just a new adventure/sourcebook/supplement - I'm pretty sure they did the same when the PF1 CRB came out, so it's consistent with that).It is, in fact, exactly what happened. PDFs went live the first day of GenCon, and the website was down all GenCon weekend so those of us whose shipments hadn't arrived yet (me) couldn't even get our downloads of the shiny new PFRPG CRB.
Of course, since then, Paizo has had the Playtest release run like clockwork, with no downtime, so I am more sanguine about being able to download the PDFs August 1st if my physical shipment hasn't gotten here by then.
There was also the fun of trying to order the pdf for non subscribers as I was then, when the shipping costs of getting a book the size of the CRB was beyond me...
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It seems they're willing to wear a little inequity month-by-month when it's only a week or two, but that three and a half weeks was too much.
Inequity is inequity. A more honest statement probably would be "We would like to maximise publicity for our new edition by releasing all the content at once".
Ah, no matter. I'm super busy with RL and running Shattered Star and Age of Ashes doesn't sound too interesting, anyway (at least from the AP description, maybe the final product will be fantastic).
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I can confirm that I have both the last issue of Tyrant's Grasp and the Druma book in my downloads, so it's only the 2E PDFs that are being held back. Which is understandable for such a big product launch.
Nothing in my downloads yet. OTOH, I don't have a shipping email, either. :-)
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It seems they're willing to wear a little inequity month-by-month when it's only a week or two, but that three and a half weeks was too much.Inequity is inequity. A more honest statement probably would be "We would like to maximise publicity for our new edition by releasing all the content at once".
I don’t think it’s right to leap to dishonesty (fwiw, I don’t think this policy is going to add anything to sales and hype anyhow - I think a slow trickle of excited book reviews would be far better for them than a massive deluge on day one of GenCon where they already get plenty of buzz and hype).
They may not share your binary view of inequity (I certainly don’t - I’d prefer a solution with less unfairness, even if it still advantaged some group). Personally, I think we should just accept their stated reason - whether we agree with it or not, it’s a perfectly understandable and consistent rationale.
Personally, I think we should just accept their stated reason - whether we agree with it or not, it’s a perfectly understandable and consistent rationale.
No, it's not. That's my point. If they cared about this inequity so much, they would not have let it go on for 10 years for suscribers who got their PDF's very unequally to each other. So this sudden call-out of "inequity" rings false to me.
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Personally, I think we should just accept their stated reason - whether we agree with it or not, it’s a perfectly understandable and consistent rationale.No, it's not. That's my point. If they cared about this inequity so much, they would not have let it go on for 10 years for suscribers who got their PDF's very unequally to each other. So this sudden call-out of "inequity" rings false to me.
They haven’t led “this inequity” go on for 10 years. They think this is different. They think the magnitude matters - that acting to ensure a little less inequity is better even if some remains.
I agree with the stance that even if there is some unfairness month by month it can be so substantial in one month as to be worth addressing. Would you suggest I’m being dishonest on the basis that you disagree?
Just because you don’t share a view doesn’t mean it’s nonsensical.
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I think we should tell people they’re making a mistake if we think they’re wrong but we shouldn’t assume people are being dishonest.
They haven’t led “this inequity” go on for 10 years.
Yes, they have. Empirically so.
They think this is different. They think the magnitude matters - that acting to ensure a little less inequity is better even if some remains.
Yeah, the magnitude is a bit larger this time. But going forward people still will continue to get their PDF's one or more weeks later than others due to the shipping process.
I agree with the stance that even if there is some unfairness month by month it can be so substantial in one month as to be worth addressing. Would you suggest I’m being dishonest on the basis that you disagree?
No, you are expressing your opinion on the matter and are not involved in the process. Please don't try such cheap trap questions, it's beneath you.
Just because you don’t share a view doesn’t mean it’s nonsensical.
Of course. I'm expressing my opinion, which is that this sudden talk of "inequity" being put forward is a convenient smokescreen for wanting to release everything at once to maximise publicity for the new edition. Which in itself (talking about the latter part, maximising publicity) is not something morally condemnable. I just think that the sudden concern for "inequity", when it is still going to happen every month going forward, doesn't ring true to me.
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I agree with the stance that even if there is some unfairness month by month it can be so substantial in one month as to be worth addressing. Would you suggest I’m being dishonest on the basis that you disagree?No, you are expressing your opinion on the matter and are not involved in the process. Please don't try such cheap trap questions, it's beneath you.
I’ve got no idea what a “cheap trap question” is. That was a genuine inquiry as Paizo’s stated stance and my views seemed entirely analogous, yet you declared they were probably dishonest. I won’t reply to you any more.
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As an aside - at least one customer is reporting they did get access to AP144, but not AP145, so it looks like PDFs of the PF1 products may be available once the order has shipped, as per usual.
I can verify that I was able to download Druma and Midwives to Death. It's just the P2e stuff that's not accessible yet.
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As an aside - at least one customer is reporting they did get access to AP144, but not AP145, so it looks like PDFs of the PF1 products may be available once the order has shipped, as per usual.I can verify that I was able to download Druma and Midwives to Death. It's just the P2e stuff that's not acccessible yet.
Ditto for me.
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Maybe the Paizo folks haven't explained things clearly, but it is evident that they handle the first subscription shipment of a new edition differently from their routine subscription shipments, making this month's situation literally a once per decade or so issue. Since the core rulebook gets more hype than every other product in the edition combined, they obviously didn't want people to already be picking that book apart from their PDFs this week. This is a very different situation from a routine month where the first person to get a PDF starts doling out spoilers for far a less hyped product.