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Rules Questions


My question is about the Envoy's level 8 Envoy Improvisations Sustained Determination. the ability says:
As a move action, you can spend 2 Resolve Points to grant
an ally within 60 feet 1 Resolve Point that he can spend
to empower one of his abilities, even if he has spent all of
his own Resolve Points. The ally must spend the Resolve
Point before the start of your next turn; if he does not
do so, he loses the Resolve Point and you still lose the
Resolve Points you spent. You can’t grant the same ally
the benefits of this ability again until both you and your
ally have recovered your Resolve Points after an 8-hour
rest or its equivalent.
I'm confused by the part about the ally spending the bonus resolve you gave them
to empower on of his abilities does that mean if the got a class ability that allows a spent resolve to do what ever they may have as a class ability or does that 1 bonus resolve used to do Staying in the Fight general use of resolve on page 23 of core? or is both a viable use, and if the bonus point that's given
make the ally have enough for Stabilizing can they use it for that as well?

So you can see I'm a little scatter brained about this Improvisation, any clarification to Sustained Determination would be a big help. :-) I'm playing an Envoy for my 1st time playing starfinder like the class so I'm doing a map of possible improvisations that i may want to take.


Good question.

Staying in the fight or staying alive doesn't seem like it would qualify as one of their abilities.

(which is really the only time an envoy, who has something to spend resolve on (improved get em), would pay that exchange rate to somoene else, (where there's a bit of a lack of things to spend resolve points on)

The armory has an artifical heart which lets you spend your resolve to help an ally stabalize and do this. If that was your primary desire for this ability that might be a better buy even if I'm wrong about it working to recover.


I think it works only to power class abilities, augmentations, or magic items that require RP. The intent is probably that you be conscious and aware of the Envoy providing the boost, which is why it can’t help you stabilize or stay in the fight.


Thanks for the response.:-)
Makes sense Xenocrat I think the line Resolve Point that he can spend to empower one of his abilities was what thru me in the power. Now I'm not even sure if its worth taking the Sustained Determination 2RP to use it seems kinda of steep.


adam morin wrote:

Thanks for the response.:-)

Makes sense Xenocrat I think the line Resolve Point that he can spend to empower one of his abilities was what thru me in the power. Now I'm not even sure if its worth taking the Sustained Determination 2RP to use it seems kinda of steep.

You’d pretty much have to combine it with Clever Improvisations so that you can spend 1 RP to transfer 1 RP. Even then it’s only useful an ally has a really strong ability for you to support as an RP battery so that he’s not too at risk for low RP and death. Something like an Overlord Mystic who regularly charms several people per day.


Expert attack is amazing , especially if you have an unwieldy heavy weapon or longarm (which i cannot recommend enough for an envoy)

Desperate defense is really meh. Because of how dying works in starfinder you should be able to reposition your ally far enough away that they can't get coup de graced at the cost of them being hit once.

Hidden agenda... maybe in a really really intriguey game

Improved hurry is astounding. You have to plan and take hurry but your tank being able to do his thing and still guarded step is a game changer, as is your caster throwing out 2 rounds of buffs on round 1 or cranking out 2 of his top tier spells in round 1.

Situational awareness is good.. maybe if you have skill focus perception?


I'm going to Hijack my original post to ask another envoy question. My planned build for my Envoy is a combat medic i took Inspiring Boost at 1st level and plan on taking the battlefield medic and Surgeon Expertise Talents and 3rd and 7th, at 2nd level i did the Get 'em Improvisation with the original intent of doing the clever feint, clever attack route. Now I've changed my mind and have decided to have my Envoy be more a 5E D&D bard with the Improvisations like Hurry and Improved Hurry and others that grant my allies more then there standard set of actions in a round. My question is will I be gimping the group by not contributing to the damaging the enemy part of combat or does the granting extra actions move with Hurry and a possible standard with the Improved Hurry at 12th level more then make up? or should i build around being more a jack of all trades with a little bit of combat help doing the clever feint route and hurry route (or other improves that give actions to allies)?


adam morin wrote:

I'm going to Hijack my original post to ask another envoy question. My planned build for my Envoy is a combat medic i took Inspiring Boost at 1st level and plan on taking the battlefield medic and Surgeon Expertise Talents and 3rd and 7th, at 2nd level i did the Get 'em Improvisation with the original intent of doing the clever feint, clever attack route. Now I've changed my mind and have decided to have my Envoy be more a 5E D&D bard with the Improvisations like Hurry and Improved Hurry and others that grant my allies more then there standard set of actions in a round. My question is will I be gimping the group by not contributing to the damaging the enemy part of combat or does the granting extra actions move with Hurry and a possible standard with the Improved Hurry at 12th level more then make up? or should i build around being more a jack of all trades with a little bit of combat help doing the clever feint route and hurry route (or other improves that give actions to allies)?

It really depends on your team. If you have a bunch of experienced, hardened murderers that you are backing, the "bard" playstyle can be helpful, as facilitating your team can probably result in more damage than you could do by yourself.

On the other hand, if your team is not as optimized, if you're not putting points on the board as well, your team could get overwhelmed even with your buffs.

So I'd say reflect on your group and maybe ask them for input.


The value of extra actions is dependent on party composition.

And honestly the melee classes have methods of getting into position to make full attacks. Soliders can get the ability to move and full attack with Hit and Run style. Solarions don't directly get an ability to move and full attack (I don't think) but get a lot of movement based attack methods. Both classes can get a good amount of options to bring them into melee range.

I guess the point I'm making is, extra move actions can be situationally useful, but more so at low levels before characters have had a chance to get those options.

As a player, I would probably more often prefer to have the enemy debuffed then to be granted extra move actions.

And that's all that Hurry and Improved will do, until level 12. When you can spend 2 resonance to grant a standard action. That's a pretty steep price, that you wont be able to afford every combat.

Ranged attackers movement is a lot less critical for. And Operatives just get to move and attack all the time.


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adam morin wrote:

I'm going to Hijack my original post to ask another envoy question. My planned build for my Envoy is a combat medic i took Inspiring Boost at 1st level and plan on taking the battlefield medic and Surgeon Expertise Talents and 3rd and 7th, at 2nd level i did the Get 'em Improvisation with the original intent of doing the clever feint, clever attack route. Now I've changed my mind and have decided to have my Envoy be more a 5E D&D bard with the Improvisations like Hurry and Improved Hurry and others that grant my allies more then there standard set of actions in a round. My question is will I be gimping the group by not contributing to the damaging the enemy part of combat or does the granting extra actions move with Hurry and a possible standard with the Improved Hurry at 12th level more then make up? or should i build around being more a jack of all trades with a little bit of combat help doing the clever feint route and hurry route (or other improves that give actions to allies)?

I agree with the others, it depends on party composition. Basically, does an ally have a more productive use for a move/standard action than you do?

Technomancer's can benefit a lot from a move action (Empower Weapon on top of a full attack), both Technomancers and Mystics can benefit from a standard action (cast two spells in one round), but they can also benefit a lot from you debuffing with a boosted Intimidate used to demoralize, which can be done as your own move action with the Improved Demoralize feat.

Talk to your party and see if they have some really good combos they could and want to build around if you were to provide them with bonus actions.


Claxon wrote:


I guess the point I'm making is, extra move actions can be situationally useful, but more so at low levels before characters have had a chance to get those options.

And at higher levels the extra action lets them full round move in and then guarded step back so they're taking an attack instead of a full attack. Thats more damage mitigation that throwing someone off target.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are still some fairly common applications for the extra move action. Enabling 1st round full attacks or trick attacks from people that didn't have a weapon drawn isn't that niche.


Adam Morin wrote:
plan on taking the battlefield medic and Surgeon Expertise Talents and 3rd and 7th

In a standard game these are pretty bad

At that level someone with 1 Hp and conscious will drop in 1 hit from a bad guy.

Someone with 15 hp and conscious thanks to your medical stuff will drop in... one hit from the bad guy.

You could just load up a wasp injection gun with a good healing serum and shoot your friends prone body in the butt for pretty much the same effect.

Its pretty rare that you have an hour to patch someone up but aren't at the end of the adventure anyway. For those occasions there's a 6 pack of healing serums

This post brought to you by calden cayden healing serums. Drink till you feel better one way or another!


HammerJack wrote:
There are still some fairly common applications for the extra move action. Enabling 1st round full attacks or trick attacks from people that didn't have a weapon drawn isn't that niche.

Maybe my party is in a minority, but for the most part if you're not in a "safe area" weapons are always drawn and in hand. The only time they aren't ready is when the party gets jumped in an area they think is safe.

So I consider this to still be pretty niche.


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Claxon wrote:
HammerJack wrote:
There are still some fairly common applications for the extra move action. Enabling 1st round full attacks or trick attacks from people that didn't have a weapon drawn isn't that niche.

Maybe my party is in a minority, but for the most part if you're not in a "safe area" weapons are always drawn and in hand. The only time they aren't ready is when the party gets jumped in an area they think is safe.

If you're an Operative who isn't always walking around Abasalom Station holding a pistol with a Glamour weapon fusion so it looks like a datapad I don't even want to know you.


Is not the injection gun/Needler Pistol with a healing serum method a little iffy? The level 1 Needler Pistol does a 1d4P damage and a 1st level serum only does a d8 so you could either only make the serum half effective or gain no healing from it I'd see when you can purchase level 5 items the level one needle gun and a MK2 serum start to make this combo better. And is not the needle gun healing serum combo all dependent on you being able to hit your allies I'd assume KAC?


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yes, a needle gun with healing serums has the problems of having to hit your allies, and dealing damage to them.

A biohacker, or someone using a sting rifle can avoid the problem of dealing damage.

The biohacker also has some abilities that can help with hitting your allies, though they still don't make it a guarantee.

A character that is relegating dexterity to a tertiary stat, or less, so that they can focus on using INT and CHA to support will still have big problems with hitting allies.


HammerJack wrote:

Yes, a needle gun with healing serums has the problems of having to hit your allies, and dealing damage to them.

A biohacker, or someone using a sting rifle can avoid the problem of dealing damage.

The biohacker also has some abilities that can help with hitting your allies, though they still don't make it a guarantee.

A character that is relegating dexterity to a tertiary stat, or less, so that they can focus on using INT and CHA to support will still have big problems with hitting allies.

Your ally is unconcious though, so their dex is a -5. They're prone for a +4 ac bonus, but that still shouldn't be TOO much harder than making the skill check

Charisma really adds very, very little to your ability to support.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I have played envoys that consider charisma secondary, myself. However, "how can I support without dex?" is a common context that the needle full if healing serum comes up in.

I believe that it is worth mentioning, when trying to lay out what the downsides of a needler full if serums are, and what kind of characters may have more or less trouble, because of those downsides.


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Thank you all you helped remind me how spoiled 5th edition D&D has made me with there short and long rests it's been some time sense i last played pathfinder or 3.5 D&D. I play with my 3 brothers and the 2 oldest one of which is are GM love watching Critical Roll on twitch and they play 5th edition so we have to play it to, I've only managed to get them to try 2 other systems sense getting in to 5th edition Starfinder is what were doing now and last summer i talked them into trying Star Wars Saga edition we were playing the Dawn of Defiance 1st-20th level adventure path they did 1st group wipe and they went back to 5E. Here's hoping we stick with Starfinder longer then we did Star Wars


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Love me some Saga.


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adam morin wrote:

Thanks for the response.:-)

Makes sense Xenocrat I think the line Resolve Point that he can spend to empower one of his abilities was what thru me in the power. Now I'm not even sure if its worth taking the Sustained Determination 2RP to use it seems kinda of steep.

That's true for almost every Envoy improvisation. Steep cost, highly situational and buried under a ton of constraints. It's even worse because it isn't even half as cool as the name suggests. Why not spend a RP to allow a re-roll on saves for allies? Pretty useful and has a decent cost, that sounds more like "Sustained Determination" to me. I mean, it's basically a "capstone" ability if you consider the fact that the improv is the highest level available.


I have a ysoki soldier sniper, level 1, sniper. I can point to the head?? I would need some skill?


Thandruill wrote:
I have a ysoki soldier sniper, level 1, sniper. I can point to the head?? I would need some skill?

damage in starfinder is just damage, you can't shoot people in the head for more


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Thandruill wrote:
I have a ysoki soldier sniper, level 1, sniper. I can point to the head?? I would need some skill?

I would recommend getting a weapon with the wound or severe wound critical property. That might allow you to target the head if you get a critical hit.

The operative class also offers a number of operative exploits that, when used in conjunction with debilitating attack, allow you to target certain body parts.

I can't think of anything that's going to help you at 1st level though.


Thandruill wrote:
I have a ysoki soldier sniper, level 1, sniper. I can point to the head?? I would need some skill?

There isn't really a mechanic for that. Closest thing is the Wound critical effect, which you don't have that kind of control over.

The Deadly Aim feat gives you a small amount of bonus damage, but isn't really worth it - and definitely isn't some sort of "boom, headshot" situation.

If you get really solid damage and the kill, you could reasonably start it was because of a headshot. Not too unusual to let people flavour the killing blow however they want.

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