Glass Cannon Live Play revelations


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Hey hey hey folks, more live updates. This is going to be a slow one because it is a 3 hour episode that doesn't have easy rewind and I'm about to go into work. Level 7 characters up in here.

Champions have weapon specialization damage they add on top of strength, no surprise there since fighters and barbarians had similar stuff.

Stunning Fist now seems to trigger where fierce flurry did in the playtest: when you land both flurry strikes on the same target. The target makes a fortitude save to avoid being Stunned, which is now a numbered condition. If I heard correctly, it was stunned 1 on a failure and stunned 3 on a critical failure.

This is nice change compared to the playtest, where Fierce Flurry and Stunning Fist were often at odds with each other. Not sure if Stunning Fist is a feat or a feature.

Speculation: Stunned may have replaced Slowed as the "lose X actions per round" condition, which would be dope for the monk.


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Level 7 Champion had an AC of 28, which was higher than the ranger's, even without his shield.


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Oh, and there's a new monster in the bestiary called a Kruth (Cruth?) native to the land of the Linnorm Kings. Like a spiky crocodile. AC is like 26 or 27, hits like a truck, can use an action after a strike to embed a tooth in someone to inflict drained 1 and persistent bleed. Also has a reaction it can use when people stride away from it with a lashing tail that has reach. Not sure if it is just attack of opportunity as it didn't use it when people moved in on it.


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You can spell khrut any way you like, because he can’t spell.


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When the Ranger used Assurance he seemed to be treated as if he rolled a 10, but only got to add level and training as as a 7th level character he got 23, 10 + 7 + 4 for expert? + maybe something else?


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I haven't watched yet, but if they were 7th level, could they have been master? That's +13 proficiency, so 23.


I didn't listen to this too closely, but I didn't hear much that sounded interestingly new. Maybe parts 2 & 3 will have more, or maybe folks listening with more care will catch stuff I missed.


I had said in another lost that I'm pretty sure Grant's sorcerer was a new bloodline, some kind of elemental type.


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Stunning fist sounds great that way! Thematically nice (both hit -> Wham!) and much better trigger than the fiddly "critical hit + critical save fail".


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FowlJ wrote:
I haven't watched yet, but if they were 7th level, could they have been master? That's +13 proficiency, so 23.

Pretty sure Marc explained this one before, but I don't remember exactly what the breakdown is.

Crossbows now seem to be deadly instead of Longbows, but the ranger DPR seemed really really good with precision edge and a bow.

Weakness damage seems to be doubled on a crit and halfed on a success but that might be a mistake.


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Heal does 1d8 at first level for 1 or 3 actions, and 1d8+8 for 2 actions. Each level it is goes up by those same amounts. So for 4th level spells, gr8 or 4d8+32.

I'm reasonably sure lay on hands and wholeness of body are 6hp per spell level, for 24 hp for a 7th level character.


Our guesses on how signature spell work seem supported so far, but not definitively proven.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Heal does 1d8 at first level for 1 or 3 actions, and 1d8+8 for 2 actions. Each level it is goes up by those same amounts. So for 4th level spells, gr8 or 4d8+32.

That seems like a LOT of healing. Big fan right here.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That's interesting, on average 2 actions is going to be over double the healing. I guess the reason is that with one action you could still cast a full 2 action spell on top of healing.

If a single target needs a buttload of healing, could you just 2 action heal them and top it off with a 1 action heal? Or is there some sort of restriction on casting the same spell multiple times in a round?

At least in-combat healing seems useful this time around. The Cure X Wounds spells in Pathfinder were just kind of sad.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

gonna have to check things when it comes out but I thought the Heal spell was 1 action = touch heal, 2 action = single target range (same heal as 1 action), 3 action = minimum heal area effect


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If you spend a full hour Treating Wounds instead of 10 minutes you can double the amount healed.

There have been a few spells busted out. Searing Light does 5d6 fire, extra damage against fiends or undead. There's an Abadar power called Illusion of Wealth or something that allows you to fascinate a target with an illusion of coins, and is sustained.

Rhyst wrote:
gonna have to check things when it comes out but I thought the Heal spell was 1 action = touch heal, 2 action = single target range (same heal as 1 action), 3 action = minimum heal area effect

Yes, all that is still true. It is only the numbers that have changed from the playtest. I was just clarifying those.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Right, but I meant if someone was adjacent to you (or you wanted to target yourself), could you two action heal your target, then one action heal your target?


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If you have the Heal's to burn, yeah. Heck, you could 1 action heal someone three times if you have 3 heals to burn


xNellynelx wrote:
If you have the Heal's to burn, yeah. Heck, you could 1 action heal someone three times if you have 3 heals to burn

This.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

All right good to know, although I can't see much reason you'd do 3 1-action versions of the spell, since that would be 3d8 (avg 13.5) compared to 2d8+8 (avg 17) for using a 2-action and 1-action version together. It would also save a spell slot.


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Mechalibur wrote:
All right good to know, although I can't see much reason you'd do 3 1-action versions of the spell, since that would be 3d8 (avg 13.5) compared to 2d8+8 (avg 17) for using a 2-action and 1-action version together. It would also save a spell slot.

Oh totally, I'm just saying that you could as the original question was restrictions on using the same spell.


So far these are only confirmations of old news (yes assurance is 10+proficiency, there was a big discussion on success % a while ago). Even Treat Wounds was from the screencaps. Gonna listen for some more to see if there’s juice.


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New Elemental Bloodline?


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Seems from Jason’s reaction that rules on turning your horse into freshly made glue are not in the core rule book.


Ediwir wrote:
So far these are only confirmations of old news (yes assurance is 10+proficiency, there was a big discussion on success % a while ago). Even Treat Wounds was from the screencaps. Gonna listen for some more to see if there’s juice.

"Double the amount healed with a full hour's attention" is new though, and also sounds like a pretty good mechanic.

I'm off of work and going to finish the episode now.


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Rek Rollington wrote:
Seems from Jason’s reaction that rules on turning your horse into freshly made glue are not in the core rule book.

Most likely. Which reminds me: folks should really listen to this for themselves, because it is VERY funny. Erik Mona and the Glass Cannon boys are hilarious together and Jason makes a solid straight man on top of being an amazing GM.

"You fight with the ferocity of an orphan!"


Captain Morgan wrote:
Ediwir wrote:
So far these are only confirmations of old news (yes assurance is 10+proficiency, there was a big discussion on success % a while ago). Even Treat Wounds was from the screencaps. Gonna listen for some more to see if there’s juice.

"Double the amount healed with a full hour's attention" is new though, and also sounds like a pretty good mechanic.

I'm off of work and going to finish the episode now.

It was only partially readable, so having confirmation is good, but it was pretty easy to fill in the gaps - I have been using it as confirmed for a couple weeks now :)

Nothing escapes the discord group.


That Abadar Illusion of Wealth sounds hilarious, although I'm not quite sure if it's ideally... ABADARAN? Given he has no particular relation to Trickery, it feels like it would be better for... Razmirans or Asmodeus?


Ediwir wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Ediwir wrote:
So far these are only confirmations of old news (yes assurance is 10+proficiency, there was a big discussion on success % a while ago). Even Treat Wounds was from the screencaps. Gonna listen for some more to see if there’s juice.

"Double the amount healed with a full hour's attention" is new though, and also sounds like a pretty good mechanic.

I'm off of work and going to finish the episode now.

It was only partially readable, so having confirmation is good, but it was pretty easy to fill in the gaps - I have been using it as confirmed for a couple weeks now :)

Nothing escapes the discord group.

Oh, nice, must have missed that. Got any other fun transcriptions you could link me to? I don't discord much, as you know.

Silver Crusade

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Captain Morgan wrote:
Rek Rollington wrote:
Seems from Jason’s reaction that rules on turning your horse into freshly made glue are not in the core rule book.

Most likely. Which reminds me: folks should really listen to this for themselves, because it is VERY funny. Erik Mona and the Glass Cannon boys are hilarious together and Jason makes a solid straight man on top of being an amazing GM.

"You fight with the ferocity of an orphan!"

I think the funniest part was Jason mishearing Orphan when the character was introduced


The Ranger might have had Focus powers. Jason mentions that everyone had a focus pool early on. The party is cleric, champion, sorcerer, monk, and ranger. Ranger is the only one that didn't get spell points in the playtest, so I wasn't sure if that was an oversight. But Joe mentioned casting Longstrider... I'm not sure if this was just a joke, or if the Ranger had multiclasses druid, or what.

Quandary wrote:
That Abadar Illusion of Wealth sounds hilarious, although I'm not quite sure if it's ideally... ABADARAN? Given he has no particular relation to Trickery, it feels like it would be better for... Razmirans or Asmodeus?

I think it is less about Trickery, and more about using playing Abadar's domain against someone's greed. Like, for example, the best targets to use it on might be bandits or pirates, and considering stealing, banditry, and piracy are anathema to Abby, it makes sense that Abby would give people tools to stick it to those folks.


The fight with Kruth was good, it was against five people causing a lot of destruction, giving bleed and consumed a lot of the party resourses.

The Cleric of Abadar was hilarious, loved him.


That is all for now folks, but there will be 2 more episodes of this at some point soon!


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Rek Rollington wrote:
Seems from Jason’s reaction that rules on turning your horse into freshly made glue are not in the core rule book.

Most likely. Which reminds me: folks should really listen to this for themselves, because it is VERY funny. Erik Mona and the Glass Cannon boys are hilarious together and Jason makes a solid straight man on top of being an amazing GM.

"You fight with the ferocity of an orphan!"

I swear I was laughing so hard I almost got in a car accident when they got to the bit with the weasel near the end.


Captain Morgan wrote:

The Ranger might have had Focus powers. Jason mentions that everyone had a focus pool early on. The party is cleric, champion, sorcerer, monk, and ranger. Ranger is the only one that didn't get spell points in the playtest, so I wasn't sure if that was an oversight. But Joe mentioned casting Longstrider... I'm not sure if this was just a joke, or if the Ranger had multiclasses druid, or what.

I recall the thing that was mentioned as being by far the winner on the vote was "opt-in spells". So I think they have an opt-in Focus pool, like the monk.


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Cyouni wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:

The Ranger might have had Focus powers. Jason mentions that everyone had a focus pool early on. The party is cleric, champion, sorcerer, monk, and ranger. Ranger is the only one that didn't get spell points in the playtest, so I wasn't sure if that was an oversight. But Joe mentioned casting Longstrider... I'm not sure if this was just a joke, or if the Ranger had multiclasses druid, or what.

I recall the thing that was mentioned as being by far the winner on the vote was "opt-in spells". So I think they have an opt-in Focus pool, like the monk.

Yeah, I remember this too, but I hadn't heard any confirmation that we were getting those in the CRB, as opposed to somewhere down the line. It is neat that they made the room.


Last thing we knew was “unlikely in CRB but definitely coming”, it’d be sweet if they were in but for now i’ll assume a Jason slip. It would be a big deal if Magpie Lorikeet had focus spells, but I’ll wait until I actually see one, rather than “you all have focus spells” pointed at 5 people while explaining how focus recovery works.


Ediwir wrote:
Last thing we knew was “unlikely in CRB but definitely coming”, it’d be sweet if they were in but for now i’ll assume a Jason slip. It would be a big deal if Magpie Lorikeet had focus spells, but I’ll wait until I actually see one, rather than “you all have focus spells” pointed at 5 people while explaining how focus recovery works.

Yeah, I had the same thought. And Joe said Pigeon KestralRobin cast Longstrider, but he could have been thinking 1e rangers and/or making a joke.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vulnerability isn't really multiplied on a Crit Fail is it?
AFAIK, the Crit Fail determines scope of the ability's effect, and Vulnerability kicks in when that effect is applied.

Liberty's Edge

Quandary wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vulnerability isn't really multiplied on a Crit Fail is it?

AFAIK, the Crit Fail determines scope of the ability's effect, and Vulnerability kicks in when that effect is applied.

This is correct. Vulnerability kicks in after multipliers from Crits.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Quandary wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vulnerability isn't really multiplied on a Crit Fail is it?

AFAIK, the Crit Fail determines scope of the ability's effect, and Vulnerability kicks in when that effect is applied.
This is correct. Vulnerability kicks in after multipliers from Crits.

Indeed, this is how it worked in the playtest, but it isn't how it worked on this podcast. Based on some comments Mark has made about splash damage in the final version, I think this was probably an error from Jason. Never the less, it seems worth mentioning on the off chance that it was run correctly.


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Quandary wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vulnerability isn't really multiplied on a Crit Fail is it?

AFAIK, the Crit Fail determines scope of the ability's effect, and Vulnerability kicks in when that effect is applied.
This is correct. Vulnerability kicks in after multipliers from Crits.
Indeed, this is how it worked in the playtest, but it isn't how it worked on this podcast. Based on some comments Mark has made about splash damage in the final version, I think this was probably an error from Jason. Never the less, it seems worth mentioning on the off chance that it was run correctly.

TBH hearing little things like this makes me feel better. Like, knowing that even Mr. Bulhman himself has his slipups and handwaves makes me feel better about the fact that I find in a session that I sometimes done goofed. XD


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Edge93 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Quandary wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vulnerability isn't really multiplied on a Crit Fail is it?

AFAIK, the Crit Fail determines scope of the ability's effect, and Vulnerability kicks in when that effect is applied.
This is correct. Vulnerability kicks in after multipliers from Crits.
Indeed, this is how it worked in the playtest, but it isn't how it worked on this podcast. Based on some comments Mark has made about splash damage in the final version, I think this was probably an error from Jason. Never the less, it seems worth mentioning on the off chance that it was run correctly.
TBH hearing little things like this makes me feel better. Like, knowing that even Mr. Bulhman himself has his slipups and handwaves makes me feel better about the fact that I find in a session that I sometimes done goofed. XD

To be fair, Jason has a good excuse: he's been dealing with slight variations of these rules for so long now they start to blur together in his head. You and I have PF1, PF1.5, and PF2. Jason has had PF1, PF1.10, PF1.11, PF1.75, etc.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Edge93 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Quandary wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vulnerability isn't really multiplied on a Crit Fail is it?

AFAIK, the Crit Fail determines scope of the ability's effect, and Vulnerability kicks in when that effect is applied.
This is correct. Vulnerability kicks in after multipliers from Crits.
Indeed, this is how it worked in the playtest, but it isn't how it worked on this podcast. Based on some comments Mark has made about splash damage in the final version, I think this was probably an error from Jason. Never the less, it seems worth mentioning on the off chance that it was run correctly.
TBH hearing little things like this makes me feel better. Like, knowing that even Mr. Bulhman himself has his slipups and handwaves makes me feel better about the fact that I find in a session that I sometimes done goofed. XD
To be fair, Jason has a good excuse: he's been dealing with slight variations of these rules for so long now they start to blur together in his head. You and I have PF1, PF1.5, and PF2. Jason has had PF1, PF1.10, PF1.11, PF1.75, etc.

Lol, true.


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Every GM makes mistakes. Even in D&D 5e, where half of the rules in the handbook are "the DM makes it up", mistakes are going to be made. It's simply too much to expect a single person, no matter what level of system and rules mastery they possess, to adjudicate every detail perfectly.

I'm sure that a couple years from now, after PF2 has been cemented more firmly and there are fewer versions of rulesets floating around in his head, Jason will still mess it up from time to time.

Until we reach the level of technology which allows us all to perfectly recall details in an instant. Should we reach that day, D&D and Pathfinder will make for somewhat different experiences. :0)

Silver Crusade

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I mean, also, we're all human. Nobody should be expected to have 1000 pages of material memorized for a game, not even the people that write it.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Captain Morgan wrote:
Rek Rollington wrote:
Seems from Jason’s reaction that rules on turning your horse into freshly made glue are not in the core rule book.

Most likely. Which reminds me: folks should really listen to this for themselves, because it is VERY funny. Erik Mona and the Glass Cannon boys are hilarious together and Jason makes a solid straight man on top of being an amazing GM.

"You fight with the ferocity of an orphan!"

"Can't be too careful when dealing with birds of the marsh." I was dying when Skid said this so seriously.


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thewastedwalrus wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Rek Rollington wrote:
Seems from Jason’s reaction that rules on turning your horse into freshly made glue are not in the core rule book.

Most likely. Which reminds me: folks should really listen to this for themselves, because it is VERY funny. Erik Mona and the Glass Cannon boys are hilarious together and Jason makes a solid straight man on top of being an amazing GM.

"You fight with the ferocity of an orphan!"

"Can't be too careful when dealing with birds of the marsh." I was dying when Skid said this so seriously.

I'm sort of thinking "dire flamingos" might be my new default critical failure result on Survey Wildlife.


Yeah no worries, I'm sure Jason was busy enough trying to forget some of the bad jokes lodged in his mind ;-)

BTW, re: the Sorceror character who apparently was Fire Elemental Bloodline, did anybody catch what casting type that is?
I've been mulling over Elemental being Arcane or Primal, but Primal really seem the more specific and interesting...???
I think all his spells were Fire spells so hard to say either way, although may I remember using a Wand/Staff of Magic Missile?

EDIT: Problem with Primal Elemental Bloodline is more overlap with Oracle/Shaman, but IMHO that doesn't justify Arcane.
Those classes have plenty of scope for very different gameplay, and pure Primal list still differs vs Divine and (Occult-Divine-Primal blend) Shaman list.
(I see Shaman possibly being primarily Occult with specific theme access e.g. healing, summon/binding, etc)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Does anyone have a link to this podcast?

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