Metal Heroes for Iron Gods appears to be last set they have done. :(
I figured that a set for Starfinder, or perhaps Age of Ashes might also be very helpful.
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Metal Heroes for Iron Gods appears to be last set they have done. :(
I figured that a set for Starfinder, or perhaps Age of Ashes might also be very helpful.
Yeah, I've been enjoying this series. Although it's a fun way to sate my OCD about list-making, too, 'cause I can go through them and make a list of all the classes and races represented and see which ones are over or under-represented. :)
Too many clerics and rogues! Need more barbarians and rangers! There's an oread, an undine and a slyph, where's mah ifrit! :)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Metal Heroes for Iron Gods appears to be last set they have done. :(
I figured that a set for Starfinder, or perhaps Age of Ashes might also be very helpful.
I believe Egyptian Heroes, Winter Heroes, Crimson Heroes, and Planetary Heroes have all come out since Metal Heroes, so we've still been dropping them periodically, but it's been a while for a new Pathfinder one (we have put out some 5E versions in the last year or two). Looks like the most recent release was Aetheric Heroes and that was May of 2017.
Part of the reason has to do with Neil's job situation, as he got a transfer and then a promotion that both took up a lot more of his day job time. That plus a family of four growing kids (his are around 5-13 I think) didn't leave a lot of writing time.
That aside, probably the main reason we slacked off releasing them was twofold:
1. We've drifted somewhat away from our old model of "Adventure Path Plug-In" support, creating a lot more of our own independent content.
2. The Heroes books had once been fairly consistent sellers, but the later installments just didn't sell all that well.
In terms of both the actual cost of producing them (since they need 8 new art pieces and Neil's time) plus the opportunity cost of producing them (vs. time spent on other projects) and they just kind of moved to the back burner and stayed there.
We may yet release new ones. I know Neil has a fair amount of notes on some other characters he was going to do, but I'm not sure whether he's ready to dive into taking them from notes and partially done drafts to finality.
So... don't give up hope for farther down the road, but I don't foresee any coming your way in the near future.
2. The Heroes books had once been fairly consistent sellers, but the later installments just didn't sell all that well.
That's the big one. :( If they aren't selling, there isn't much point is there. (I know you do this for love, but you don't want to go broke either.)
So... don't give up hope for farther down the road, but I don't foresee any coming your way in the near future.
Good, because writing up a group of interesting characters is MUCH harder then it looks.
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What has happened to Neil Spicer's pregen character series?
If it helps at all, I have a selection I was working on for Runebound Heroes that's closest to completion, but as Jason said, I've been turning down work for quite sometime now, simply because my day-job and home-life schedules don't really allow much time for it, especially if it's something that requires a hard deadline. The Heroes product line is about the only one that I can work on as I find time, but they're not exactly the highest return-on-investment work for Legendary Games these days.
I figured that a set for Starfinder, or perhaps Age of Ashes might also be very helpful.
I did start brainstorming one for Starfinder's Dead Suns AP, but haven't made a lot of progress with it.
Sadly, there's nothing in the hopper for Age of Ashes...
Need more barbarians and rangers!
The Runebound Heroes set includes both a human barbarian (with the titan mauler archetype) AND a dwarven ranger (with the trapper archetype)!
There's an oread, an undine and a slyph, where's mah ifrit! :)
I have another set of characters called Wishful Heroes that I was designing for a certain desert-themed/extraplanar AP from the pre-Pathfinder days that includes not one, but TWO ifrits...a brother and sister tandem born as twins...one a rogue and the other a wishcrafting sorceror. There's also another sylph...this time a wizard (with the wind listener archetype).
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Need more barbarians and rangers!The Runebound Heroes set includes both a human barbarian (with the titan mauler archetype) AND a dwarven ranger (with the trapper archetype)!
There's an oread, an undine and a slyph, where's mah ifrit! :)I have another set of characters called Wishful Heroes that I was designing for a certain desert-themed/extraplanar AP from the pre-Pathfinder days that includes not one, but TWO ifrits...a brother and sister tandem born as twins...one a rogue and the other a wishcrafting sorceror. There's also another sylph...this time a wizard (with the wind listener archetype).
Awesome! As I was saying, it's an OCD thing for me, to compile lists and see what got lots of representation and what 'classic' races and classes didn't get as much. (Lots of humans and clerics and rogues. Very few barbarians and surprisingly few fighters, monks, wizards, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc.)
It's a shame that the Ifrit racial fire-thingie technically doesn't apply to Flame Oracles or the Fire 'specialist' Wizard (but only to the Flame Domain or Elemental (fire) Bloodline). An Ifrit Flame Oracle would be quite on-theme. :)
I love how imaginative they've been (although you broke my brain with the goblin ninja!), and how the various NPCs all have connections or narrative ties to each other, it really gives them a neat spark of life.
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Awesome! As I was saying, it's an OCD thing for me, to compile lists and see what got lots of representation and what 'classic' races and classes didn't get as much. (Lots of humans and clerics and rogues. Very few barbarians and surprisingly few fighters, monks, wizards, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, etc.)
I've been making a conscious decision on these products to revisit some of the under-served classes (particularly fighers and wizards), but many of them are still in the design stage, so no one's seen them yet. :)
For instance, across the 6 unfinished Heroes products I have in varying stages of planning/completion, there's a: wizard (instructor), fighter (mobile fighter), ranger (trophy hunter), paladin (holy guide), wizard (spell sage), fighter (high guardian), and wizard (arcane physician) in the works. So, there was a fair bit of new design choices (especially via archetypes) among some of those under-represented classes. And, generally speaking, I always shoot for 2 arcane, 2 divine, 2 martial, and 2 skill/support classes in each set. That's a formula I'll never abandon, because it's what creates a well-rounded, mix-and-match party for each AP. And, among the divine classes, I pretty much always reach for at least one cleric for the higher healing output and channel energy capability, because most parties need that given the known lethality of some of the adventures.
As for the racial mix, that's always the toughest call I make when producing these sets. I shoot for 3-4 humans in every batch, and then 4-5 non-humans, and I only include the races that have good story-hooks for the specific AP rather than trying to force a dwarf, halfling, or gnome just for the sake of having one. I'll fit them in where I can, but only if it makes sense. In addition, with the Advanced Race Guide available, I try to have at least 1-2 of the non-human races include something a little more rare (e.g., oreads, sylphs, ifrits, or even a goblin?!) to show how they can fit into such an AP even better than some of the more traditional ones. But, no matter how you slice it, there's only so much room in each set...and the most important thing is to make sure they synergize with the AP and each other.
I love how imaginative they've been...and how the various NPCs all have connections or narrative ties to each other, it really gives them a neat spark of life.
I think that's what sets the Heroes product line apart from just a set of routine, pregenerated characters. To elevate them, they need individual story hooks to the AP, but also to one another because that helps the players get into character much more swiftly when there are integrated backgrounds and motivations. I believe Endzeitgeist picked up on that quicker than anyone in one of his reviews. They're not just standalone characters. You can select 4-5 of the 8 and create an actual adventuring party that already has reasons for being together built into them. And, there are enough hooks in their backstories and future potential to let them play off one another (in a roleplaying sense) as they experience the AP together. That's always been the goal. And that's what inspires me when I do these things. I just wish I had more time to do them...and that they were better money-makers for Legendary Games to incent us to keep going.
I love how imaginative they've been...and how the various NPCs all have connections or narrative ties to each other, it really gives them a neat spark of life.I think that's what sets the Heroes product line apart from just a set of routine, pregenerated characters. To elevate them, they need individual story hooks to the AP, but also to one another because that helps the players get into character much more swiftly when there are integrated backgrounds and motivations. I believe Endzeitgeist picked up on that quicker than anyone in one of his reviews. They're not just standalone characters. You can select 4-5 of the 8 and create an actual adventuring party that already has reasons for being together built into them. And, there are enough hooks in their backstories and future potential to let them play off one another (in a roleplaying sense) as they experience the AP together. That's always been the goal. And that's what inspires me when I do these things. I just wish I had more time to do them...and that they were better money-makers for Legendary Games to incent us to keep going.
You also make it look easy.
Were you involved in the Aetheric Heroes set?
Were you involved in the Aetheric Heroes set?
No. I've produced every Heroes product except Aetheric Heroes (done by Robert Brookes, I believe) and Winter Heroes (done by Liz Courts). And I had some assistance on the write-ups for the character backgrounds in Planetary Heroes for our Legendary Planet AP (but I compiled the stat-blocks and general conceptual details).
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I've been making a conscious decision on these products to revisit some of the under-served classes (particularly fighters and wizards), but many of them are still in the design stage, so no one's seen them yet. :)
For instance, across the 6 unfinished Heroes products I have in varying stages of planning/completion, there's a: wizard (instructor), fighter (mobile fighter), ranger (trophy hunter), paladin (holy guide), wizard (spell sage), fighter (high guardian), and wizard (arcane physician) in the works.
Very cool. I was just looking at the Instructor Wizard AT and thinking it would be perfect for a Gnome (Universalist), looking to offset the Bleaching by constantly training (and graduating / replacing) new students every level (thus exposing himself to new perspectives), and being kind of neurotic about hair-dye and / or prestidigitation to cover up those few white hairs, because he's still in denial about the Bleaching thing...
I have problems myself coming up with interesting ideas for some classes. I could make a dozen different Clerics without even ATs and they'd all be radically different, thanks to their gods, but Fighters? Ugh. Brain-cramp! I know they can be radically different just in personality, let alone playstyle (a dedicated archer playing very differently than a reach-specialist gatling-tripper with a polearm) but I kind of fall into the trap of feeling like my choice is 'stabby thing or bashy thing?' So it's great that you've got multiple Fighters in the planning stages. :)
As for the racial mix, that's always the toughest call I make when producing these sets. I shoot for 3-4 humans in every batch, and then 4-5 non-humans, and I only include the races that have good story-hooks for the specific AP rather than trying to force a dwarf, halfling, or gnome just for the sake of having one. I'll fit them in where I can, but only if it makes sense. In addition, with the Advanced Race Guide available, I try to have at least 1-2 of the non-human races include something a little more rare (e.g., oreads, sylphs, ifrits, or even a goblin?!) to show how they can fit into such an...
Also cool. It's interesting how some races, just based on where in Golarion they are likely to appear, feel like they'd be predisposed to enter certain classes. Ghorans, for instance, are based out of Nex, which is kind of the poster-child for 'the country where Wizards come from.' :)
Similarly, regardless of the mechanics, the kind of down-and-out-in-the-Puddles vibe of Gillmen in Absalom makes the Rogue (or Vigilante) feel like a natural fit for them.
It does seem like the sweet spot though is four humans, three 'demihumans' (elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, 1/2 elves, 1/2 orcs) and 1 oddball (anything from tiefling to goblin).