Esoteric Knight and occultist?


Advice


So does the Esoteric Knight mesh alright with the occultist (specifically the psychodermist)? Or any other archetype?


No? It doesn't advance anything related to implements (number of, mental focus or level with the implements) and has only 5/10 spellcasting advancement. It looks like it'd be best used on a stack of multiclasses where you've been grabbing low level abilities and don't really care about advancing any of them.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The entry requirements should give you a clue as to what sort of character the prestige class is designed for -- 1st level occult spells or 1st level kinetic blast and BAB +5. At each odd level, you gain a bonus combat feat and can count your esoteric knight levels as fighter levels for prerequisites.

In other words, it works best for a fighter who wants to dabble in occult magic.


It's late entry, but I could see this working pretty well for a psychic detective investigator who wants to be more fightery. Definitely wouldn't end up with quite as many vestigal class features which stopped scaling usefully as the Occultist, Spiritualist, or Kineticist would.

Plus Eldritch Armor feels like the best esoterica which encourages an Int caster.


I could also see 2 levels of Esoteric Knight as an interesting option for a late career psychic. Essentially you'd give up 1 level of spellcasting for light + medium armor, shields, martial weapons, a combat feat (heavy armor proficiency perhaps?), and whatever psychic esoterica you like best.


I don't know what they where smoking when they thought burn was an acceptable substitute for low level level spell slots.


Doompatrol wrote:
I don't know what they where smoking when they thought burn was an acceptable substitute for low level level spell slots.

Given that burn scales by character level but all abilities which incur it scale by kineticist level the lesson for all multiclass kineticists is "do not take burn."

I could see a fighter telekineticist working out okay if you resolve to never take burn and use the blast as a backup option, things like telekinetic finesse, tk haul, tk invisibility, and tk maneuvers are useful and do not cost burn, and the defense is useful even if you put nothing in it.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Or don't take more than a preset amount of burn. A kineticist does gain advantages as his total burn reaches certain amounts -- and I think a point of burn that lets you take +2 to Con is a wash as far as hit points are concerned.


Elemental overflow takes at least 3 points of burn IIRC, while taking the 3rd point is a wash as far as HP go that says nothing about points 1-2 which you also have to take to get there.


So a esoteric knight with 2 kineticist levels (needed to qualify for the defense), 0 burn, and 10 EK levels, will have a 7 HP temp pool for a telekineticist (regenerates at 1/min) or DR 3/adamantium for a geokineticist. A physical blast from this character would deal 4d6+4+ConMod, and an energy blast 4d6 +ConMod/2.

I don't think any of the psychic esoterica are that useful for you.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Even though this prestige class is uniquely designed to work with the kineticist, I think the best entry into it would be Fighter 4/Psychic 2, as that gives you levels in the classes that are most usefully supplemented by this prestige class.


David knott 242 wrote:
I think the best entry into it would be Fighter 4/Psychic 2, as that gives you levels in the classes that are most usefully supplemented by this prestige class.

Let's consider a few others anyway.

Paladin 2 / Exciter fractured mind spiritualist 4
- a variant on Cha to everything which the esoteric knight can push further.

Id rager bloodrager 5
- fastest entry

Weapon master fighter 3 / swashbuckler 1 / slayer 1 / psychic 1
- lots of goodness from low level martial classes

Mindblade magus 7
- You've got most of what you want from magus and have a plan which involves many high-BAB prereq feats

Thoughts? Do any of these not work at all because of something I've missed?


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I definitely see some potential for that weapon master fighter 3/swashbuckler 1/slayer 1/psychic 1. On the martial side, you have enough fighter levels to get the full benefit of the bonus combat feats with some interesting dips to give you useful tricks.

The mindblade magus trades in spellcasting power and pure class abilities for possibly better combat ability.

I will have to look over the other combos later.

I suggested the fighter 4/psychic 2 as the best option primarily because it was the easiest option to make work -- but it is clearly not the only possible option. Yet another possible option would be Medium (Champion focused) 7.


I agree there appear to be few benefits for Kineticists besides more feats. A Kinetic Knight and Elemental Annihilator might make good use of some of the abilities, specially being able to flank anything not immune to mind effects.

As for overflow, at least for aether, you are converting 3*HD in HP into 3*HD in regenerating temp HP + 1 con: effectively +1*HD. So yes, taking a preset number of burn is good. Also dont forget it also gives bonuses to attacks.

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I feel like Id Bloodrager and Mindblade Magus make for the 2 best entries. The reason being that usually you multiclass them to get more feats or some ability, in this case not only are you gaining more feats, but you continue to scale your casting.

Overall, I think they went too safe on the class and made it something that doesn't stand out. Specially the "spend a spell for a minor resource" is kind of weird.


A multiclassed telekineticist doesn't get the full benefit of force ward. It's kineticist level that gets multiplied for the temp HP while the cost is in burn, which is per HD. When kineticist level < HD that looks a much worse bargain. Also the multiplier is (1 + burn/2) for temp HP.

Example with the numbers in: a kineticist 4 / fighter 2 who spends 3 burn on force ward has (1 + 3/2)*4 = 10 HP in the force ward. The 3 burn gives 3*6 = 18 nonlethal damage.


Okay yes that is bad, I read esoteric knight as advancing the kinticist level for defense talent. Also I thought it was full kineticist level not half kineticist level, still I did mess up saying it was HD. That is still a regenerating pool of HP, with bonuses to attacks.


Esoteric knight does advance the kineticist level for defence talents, but only on half its levels as I read it. A kineticist 7 / esoteric knight 10 with those same 3 burn in force ward would have 30 temp HP (which regenerate at 4/minute) and 51 nonlethal damage from burn.


It's about +5 (1 burn) to -5 (3 burn +con boost) hp difference on average.

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