BAB 1 and occultist hybrid


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is there any way to get BAB 1 and occultist implements on the same character?


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Vigilante with Avenger specialization and Psychometrist archetype.


The psychometrist vigilante doesn't give up vigilante specialization and so could choose avenger for virtual high BAB. I'm not really familiar with that archetype though.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Interesting. Not sure if secret identity fits with my plans but maybe! I'll give it a look, thank you!


Just take the trappings of the warrior panoply for the vanilla occultist. Won't get full bab until level 2 at the earliest but it hardly matters until level 6 (when I'd recommend taking the panoply).


It's not unusual for people to keep their vigilante in vigilante identity 99% of the time. Your social identity gives you some extra social options, but you aren't hurting yourself too much by not using them in most games.


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Or conversely, you could stay in your social identity most of the time, as the only consequence of using your vigilante talents in your social identity is that you reveal the connection between your two identities and thus lose that limited protection against scrying. I seem to recall some people referring to that option as "going Iron Man".


Samy wrote:
Interesting. Not sure if secret identity fits with my plans but maybe! I'll give it a look, thank you!

It's a badly designed, badly written class feature for Batman fanboys who are too stupid to find the disguise rules in the CRB. You literally don't need to use it at all - simply never switching to vigilante identity works perfectly fine, and nowadays you even have plenty of useful social talents to support that playstyle.


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Derklord wrote:
It's a badly designed, badly written class feature for Batman fanboys who are too stupid to find the disguise rules in the CRB.

While I agree that it's circumstantial and not applicable in most campaigns, it's one of the few 100% counters to scrying that exists at low levels. In the kinds of games where this can actually come up, this is incredibly useful.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thanks guys, looks like Trappings of the Warrior panoply and Avenger Psychometrist are the only two ways, and both are just "virtual" BAB 1. As in, might or might not qualify as prerequisites for high BAB feats and such, depending on GM call.

I guess implements is such a big class feature that you can't really make an archetype for a BAB 1 class like paladin or fighter and strip away enough of that class's class abilities to make up for gaining implements.


Avengers get real full BAB by any measure. It counts for everything.


Quote:
An avenger gains a base attack bonus equal to his vigilante level instead of using those listed on Table 1–1. He adds this value to any other base attack bonus gained from other classes or racial Hit Dice as normal.

So, the avenger BAB should count as real for just about anything a regular full BAB class does.


Dasrak wrote:
While I agree that it's circumstantial and not applicable in most campaigns, it's one of the few 100% counters to scrying that exists at low levels. In the kinds of games where this can actually come up, this is incredibly useful.

The problem is that the scrying protection is only relevant when every single party member has that class feature - otherwise, the bad guy could simply scry on a different PC. Sure, if you play a superhero campaign, it may be useful (may), but if an ability is total crap in 99.9% of all Pathfinder games, I feel I am justified calling it "badly designed".

For the record, I call it "badly written" because lots of stuff just isn't covered. For example, what if my social identity (that I announce on the village square) is "Bob the veteran sellsword", am I still in risk of exposing my vigilante identity when I use Shield of Blades in my social identity? What if the observer has never seen or heared of my vigilante identity, does he still figure it out somehow when I use a vigilante talent in social identity?


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Melkiador wrote:
Quote:
An avenger gains a base attack bonus equal to his vigilante level instead of using those listed on Table 1–1. He adds this value to any other base attack bonus gained from other classes or racial Hit Dice as normal.
So, the avenger BAB should count as real for just about anything a regular full BAB class does.

The only thing that an Avenger Vigilante doesn't get that a traditional full BAB class gets is a d10 hit die -- they are still stuck with a d8.


David knott 242 wrote:

The only thing that an Avenger Vigilante doesn't get that a traditional full BAB class gets is a d10 hit die -- they are still stuck with a d8.

There are some really rare circumstances where the difference could come up. For instance, the mental block spell could turn the virtual BAB off for a given time. But for any normal day-to-day use, the Avenger BAB should work the same as real BAB.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Thanks guys!

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