Animal Companion questions


Rules Questions


Hello! I have a couple rules clarification questions regarding animal companions.

I've done some searching and either not found an answer, or not found one clear enough for the specific questions i'm asking.

Regarding these questions, we will use my lvl 2 halfling (barb-1/cav-1(gendarme) with boon companion + mounted combat feats)

With a Wolf companion straight from the bestiary book. (Dodge feat taken at lvl 1)

Question #1 - Animal Companion Feats. Specifically, the feats listed as "Animal Feats" and to be even more specific, Spring Attack. Can he take this feat now at lvl 2?

I suppose the heart of the question lies in... do you need to meet the prerequisites for the feats specifically listed in "Animal Feats".

or would I have to save my feat from lvl 5 and wait until lvl 6 (for the +4 BAB)

Question #2 - Charging and attacking. My wolf has a bite attack, which includes trip. When I charge with my little buddy, we can both attack. The question comes with the order of this. Is there a rule written stating any order of these attacks? or if they occur "simultaneously"?

Can my wolf make his bite attack, cause the enemy to fall prone, THEN I make my own charge attack with bonuses vs prone?

Question #3 - Charging and attacking pt.2. Charging with a lance while mounted. My lil wolf buddy doesn't have reach, my lance does. So going further with the above question, would I make my charge attack BEFORE getting right next to the enemy, with my lance? or does my attack not occur until the charge movement is complete, thus resulting in me being adjacent to the enemy, no longer able to use my lance?

I am aware I can use the lance 1-h while mounted, which would solve this issue. Maybe I should have used a different weapon as an example, one with reach that isn't a lance.

Question #4 - Natural Armor. This is more of a question of (what happens when i gain another lvl and wolfy gets the "+2 Natural Armor Bonus".
So I've read the rule that says the animal companion natural armor bonus is an "improvement" to his natural armor bonus. Which I would interpret as my wolf which has 14 AC (10+2(dex)+2(Natural)), would become 16 AC (10+2(Dex)+4(Natural)).

The real question is then with the "Improved Natural Armor" Feat. Does this work the same way? It is worded slightly different.

If wolfy at lvl 3 took improved natural armor, would his AC become 17 (2+5) or does the improved natural armor bonus count as a new bonus, thus not stacking per natural armor rules.

Thank you for reading, and appreciate any clarification anyone can give.

Grand Lodge

1) The pet still needs to meet prerequisites for feats

2) There's no rule for order, so you decide who resolves the attacks first. You can have your wolf attack and trip, then you can follow up with your own attack.
3) ...But you must stop at the first square you threaten with the weapon you are attacking them with, when you charge. So a wolf has 5 ft reach and a lance gives you 10 ft reach. If you charge with a lance you stop 10 ft away from the target, meaning your wolf won't be able to reach the target for an attack. The workaround for this is to pick up Ride-By Attack, which changes how you charge on a mount. Or have your wolf pick up the Lunge feat when able to. Lunge is better for what you want, since with the reach weapon you would have to resolve your own attack first, then the wolf as the follow-up.

4) The natural armor bonus listed is an untyped bonus, and improved natural armor increases that bonus.

Something to note, since you mentioned it and I just want to cover all bases: There is no way (that I know of) to combine a charge action with spring-attack. You essentially get that with the Ride-By Attack and Wheeling Charge feats, but that still counts as a charge for the purposes of abilities that activate on particular attacks, not spring attack. Any ability that requires you to spring attack (if you have any) cannot be done on a charge. E.g. you cannot do the charge action yourself (benefiting from the increased lance damage) while your wolf spring attacks.


TY Much for the clarification.


Mounted combat rules get a little weird, especially because common mounts don't have reach and lances do, and riders count as occupying all squares of their mount's space.

However, it seems clear that you should be able to charge with your lance and attack, even if your mount doesn't. Ride by attack is probably necessary for you both to attack. But again, the rules for mounted combat are a mess if you delve into them.

Otherwise the answers are straightforward and I agree with Syries.


I'm just going to throw this out there for rules reasons.

If your mounted on your wolf, you and the wolf charge at the same time, because that is how mounted combat works.

If you are not mounted on the wolf, the two of you don't go on the same action. When it is your turn, you choose if the wolf or you go first. You complete that character's actions, then you do the other character's actions. You can't have both of you move and then one takes a standard action then the other. That isn't how turns work without specific rules to say they do (and those rules only happen in specific situations). Mounted Combat is one of those specific situations.

Grand Lodge

Claxon wrote:
However, it seems clear that you should be able to charge with your lance and attack, even if your mount doesn't.

When your mounted character takes the charge action, both the companion and the PC are charging. You cannot take other types of actions while the other makes a charge action.


Syries wrote:
Claxon wrote:
However, it seems clear that you should be able to charge with your lance and attack, even if your mount doesn't.
When your mounted character takes the charge action, both the companion and the PC are charging. You cannot take other types of actions while the other makes a charge action.

I didn't say you could.

What I am saying i:s MOUNTED COMBAT RULES ARE BROKEN WHEN APPLIED RIGOROUSLY.

A level 1 character without any of the mounted combat feats cannot perform a mounted lance charge because of the rules.

You and your mount charge together. You both occupy all the same squares. So you determine your reach from the edge of your mounts squares. Mounts (commonly) have only 5ft reach. You with your mount have 10ft reach. Your reach is longer than your mounts, but if you're both charging (and an FAQ makes it clear that you are) then both you and your mount can't attack, because you have to make an attack and stop in the first square from which you are capable of doing so. Which probably means your mount stops short of being able to make an attack and you use your lance, and your horse...does nothing. Maybe.

Again the rules are broken if you apply them too staunchly, so you have to make some leaps to get them to a place where they make sense.

At no point did I indicate that you get to do other things with your or your mounts actions, I simply was saying that your mount might not attack even though by the rules it should have to in order to charge.


Claxon wrote:
Syries wrote:
Claxon wrote:
However, it seems clear that you should be able to charge with your lance and attack, even if your mount doesn't.
When your mounted character takes the charge action, both the companion and the PC are charging. You cannot take other types of actions while the other makes a charge action.

I didn't say you could.

What I am saying i:s MOUNTED COMBAT RULES ARE BROKEN WHEN APPLIED RIGOROUSLY.

A level 1 character without any of the mounted combat feats cannot perform a mounted lance charge because of the rules.

You and your mount charge together. You both occupy all the same squares. So you determine your reach from the edge of your mounts squares. Mounts (commonly) have only 5ft reach. You with your mount have 10ft reach. Your reach is longer than your mounts, but if you're both charging (and an FAQ makes it clear that you are) then both you and your mount can't attack, because you have to make an attack and stop in the first square from which you are capable of doing so. Which probably means your mount stops short of being able to make an attack and you use your lance, and your horse...does nothing. Maybe.

Again the rules are broken if you apply them too staunchly, so you have to make some leaps to get them to a place where they make sense.

At no point did I indicate that you get to do other things with your or your mounts actions, I simply was saying that your mount might not attack even though by the rules it should have to in order to charge.

All movement is going to be determined by the mount. The player character gets to attack like they performed a charge, the PC isn't using its movement at all.

You could object that if the PC doesn't have a reach weapon they don't threaten the target, since a medium sized PC is considered to be at the center of the 4 squares a large amount takes up, meaning you have to reach more than the normal to reach an opponent. But looking at the entire section its fairly obvious that a mounted character is allowed to use any weapon to make melee attacks without any mention of reach.


I'm not going to argue about how you can interpret the mounted combat rules to make them work, I agree that you should. But don't pretend it's clear cut that the rules work as written.

There's no special rule about mounted charges that specifies its not a problem to charge when the rider and mount have different reach. But it's problem people often ignore because we know it should work. Different tables have different ideas about exactly what that entails.

Please note, that you absolutely don't count as being in the center of your mounts squares though.

Quote:

Mounts in Combat

Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can’t do anything else until your next turn.

Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat.

You are assumed to share your mounts entire space. For all the good and ill it creates for the rules.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No one has pointed this out, a wolf animal companion isn't the wolf in the bestiary. It's the wolf stat block in the druid section of th he core rule book. Totally different.

The animal companion still has to meet feat prereqs, like BAB 4 dodge and mobility for spring attack.

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