As Dragon as Dragon Can Be


Advice


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Without actually being a dragon.

Developing a character that believes himself to be the reincarnation of a famous dragon. His long term goal is to find a way to change himself 'back' into a dragon. His eventual-long term goal is to found/rescue/liberate a city and rule it as a haven for all beings to live in harmony under the benevolent rulership of the dragons who make all nice things possible. As the player, I don't actually care if either of those things happen in the campaign. They can be completely out of the scope of the campaign. But that will always be in the back of the character's mind.

He's either going to be bloodrager 1 / sorcerer 4 / dragon disciple 10 or bloodrager 4 / sorcerer 1 / dragon disciple 10. It will depend on it I think the party needs a bit more of a melee or caster presence.

In either case, he will be a switch hitter. Using claws or spells as seems most appropriate. He will consider it a personal failure if he has to resort to manufactured equipment like weapons or armor.

To represent his self-delusional nature, I plan to dump wisdom as low as possible and take Iron Will. Maybe even Improved Iron Will later.

Humans always seem (to me) to be more susceptible to the mental troubles that would make him think he was a reincarnated dragon. But Nagaji are already reptilian. What do you think?

Should I go for a Pseudo or Faerie Dragon familiar? Is it possible to get something like a Drake animal companion? Maybe a Linorm cohort? What feats should he take?

Is there actually any rules legal way to get permanently transformed into a dragon?


I built a paladin of Apsu (oath of vengeance)/sorcerer/dragon disciple once. He was pretty good at hitting things with a quarterstaff, and had 8th level casting. Not too great at switch hitting, but his durability and damage were great.

Nagaji are reptilian, yes. That's probably why you shouldn't pick one- it's too close to a real dragon and doesn't fit the delusion as well. You can get a drake companion as a Draconic Druid (which, at 20th level, allows you to be a dragon ALL THE TIME) but I'm not too familiar with any other ways. I think some archetypes of the "pet" classes let you get drakes.

Leadership is thematic, if broken as always. You've got the CHA for it. Maybe you view your followers as your "horde" and try to order them around while also keeping them safe.

Go with sorcerer 4, bloodrager 1. I'll take 3 caster levels in a 9-level class over a few more bab and hp any day.

If you're not too feat starved, consider the Prestigious Spellcaster feat. With that sucker, you can remove the CL penalty from DD and become a true spellcaster while retaining all your bloodline stuff and melee capabilities. Even better is the fact that you can take it more than once. Bloodline feats already give you some leeway, so take advantage of this.


The oracle dragon mystery can get pretty close to permanent dragon.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

And if you take the Racial Heritage (Kobold) feat, you will qualify for a feat (Scaled Disciple) that will let you use a level of oracle to qualify for Dragon Disciple and advance your oracle spellcasting via that prestige class.


David knott 242 wrote:

And if you take the Racial Heritage (Kobold) feat, you will qualify for a feat (Scaled Disciple) that will let you use a level of oracle to qualify for Dragon Disciple and advance your oracle spellcasting via that prestige class.

Holycrap thats a cool find!


Adds an even more stinging blow to the character's backstory, too: He's not descended from a dragon, he's descended from a kobold.

Ouch.


And kobolds are notoriously delusional about being dragons. It could work.

Whether you go that way or not I doubt you'll have free feats to spend on a familiar. You will get prestigious spellcaster, right? And there are cool things you can do with feral combat training which cost a bunch of feats. Take the draconic ally spell instead.


Revolving Door Alternate wrote:


Is there actually any rules legal way to get permanently transformed into a dragon?

Polymorph Any Object might be able to do it. It actually depends on how dragon-like your character starts off with...and if the GM will throw you a free bone.

For permanent you need 9 points from the chart. You'r both animals, so that is 5 points there. Now you need 4 more points of commonality for permanency.

Reptilian race will get you +2. Medium sized will get you +2 (PAO is limited to Form of the Dragon 1, which is limited to medium size).

Same or lower intelligence will get you +2. Depending on which dragon you choose you might get this. Medium sized is a young dragon so...did you pick up your int at all?

Which leaves Related for a +2. You are dragon blooded. Which means you have some sort of link to dragons. I'd argue that is related even if you aren't technically of the dragon type. If you are a kobolt and the GM won't give you this, you have my sympathy.

If you want to be a large dragon...ever consider being a druid? You get a drake companion.


There's the Dragon Disciple Prestige Class, of course.

A Druid could Wildshape into a Dinosaur or Pterasaur and then get a Breath Weapon. Bu you did say you want to Wisdom dump, so maybe not.

I guess you can just get some kind of weirdly obsessed person who hoards treasure and comes up with a way to breathe fire.

You can do all this sort of stuff in ways that range from silliness to creepiness to believability.


I helped our cleric find a way to turn into a dragon at will. It's technically not permanent but it lasts 12 hrs and she change can back and forth with no limit. Now, to be fair part of this benefits from being mythic. Without the mythic ability you would be limited to changing into a medium dragon 5 times per day for 12 hrs or a large dragon 2 times per day for 12 hrs.

Draconic Healer (Cleric/Druid/Dawnflower Anchorite)

Spoiler:

Key concepts: A cleric that can turn into a dragon at will
Alignment: Neutral Good
Deity: Sarenrae
Class: Cleric (4) / Druid (1) / Dawnflower Anchorite (7) / Cleric (4)
Key Archetypes: Merciful Healer (Cleric) / Draconic Druid (Druid)
Key Feats: Favored Prestige Class, Prestigious Caster, Shaping Focus
Credences: Focused Class Feature (Wildshape), Focused Class Feature (Channel Energy), Divine Light
Suggested Credences: Solar Defense
Mythic Path: Hierophant
Mythic Power: Mythic Wild Shape (Large Dragon)
Key Magic Items: Polymorphic Pouch
Key Features: • Counts as 12th level for purposes of Wildshape
• Can transform into a large dragon as per form of the dragon II at will
• Can still cast spells via polymorphic pouch containing material components for spells.
• Only loses 1 level of non-domain ability cleric class features.


I fully support any option that involves Kobolds.

If you go the Racial Heritage (Kobold) route and want to go green dragon/copper dragon, half-orc count as human and can take human feats like Racial Heritage. They can also have a bite attack at level 1 from either an alternate trait, feat, or additional trait (Toothy, Razortusk, or Tusked). Also, half-orcs can have greenish or copperish skin normally.


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So ridiculous that we have class based around shapeshifting with an archetype for dragons and it’s still not a good choice for this.


Prestigious Spellcaster seems too expensive (2 feats) for +1 caster level.

I do kinda like the oracle dragon mystery. I will think about it. But I was really kinda looking toward the Dragon Disciple prestige class for this PC. But maybe.

Scaled Disciple and oracle has some possibilities. I don't like the spell list of oracle as well as sorcerer. But it has an even better dragon shape mechanic. I will think about that one as possibility.

I love the Draconic Ally spell. That is amazingly perfect. Hadn't seen that one before. Will definitely add that to the spell list.

Not sure about Feral Combat Training. I would first have to take Improved Unarmed Strike, the Weapon Focus - Claws (probably taking that one anyway), then what ever unarmed feat I want to use for the feral combat. Are any of them actually good enough for the cost of 2 or 3 feats?

I do like the the sound of Racial Heritage - Kobold. Even if it doesn't lead to anything great, it might be worth it just for the spin.

Sovereign Court

Have a sorcerer with the shape changer bloodline - that will change your 1min/level form of dragon spells to 1h/lvl later on, meaning it can be around all day. Cross blood with draconic bloodline for merging the two together.


Style feats can be pretty good. Boar style, dragon style, octopus style - and the successor feats to whichever of those you might take - are worth the feats IMO.

Oh, and shadow dragon aspect is the lowest level polymorph into a dragon spell you'll find. 4th level, kobold only. Part illusion, true.


avr wrote:
Style feats can be pretty good. Boar style, dragon style, octopus style - and the successor feats to whichever of those you might take - are worth the feats IMO.

Aren't they feat-expensive? Dragon Ferocity requires 4 feats for non-monks to have the STR bonus on all attacks.

It's doable on a lvl 1->20 campaign though


Ok here is my initial build as a melee and as a caster.

Kal Drak melee version:

Male human (Garundi) bloodrager (rageshaper) 4/dragon disciple 4/sorcerer 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 15, 84)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses low-light vision; Perception +15
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Defense
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AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 20 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +6 natural, -2 rage, +2 shield)
hp 114 (9 HD; 1d6+4d10+4d12+54)
Fort +14, Ref +6, Will +9; +2 trait bonus vs. fear, +1 trait bonus vs. death effects
Defensive Abilities uncanny dodge; Resist draconic resistance, electricity 10
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Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +15 (1d8+23), 2 claws +15 (2d6+16)
Special Attacks blood casting, bloodrage (17 rounds/day), breath weapon (8d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, DC 20, 2/day), breath weapon (9d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, DC 18, 2/day), claws, claws (2, 1d6 plus 1d6 electricity, treated as magic weapons, 7 rounds/day), dragon bite
Bloodrager (Rageshaper) Spells Known (CL 4th; concentration +8)
. . 1st (2/day)—chill touch (DC 15), long arm[ACG], shield
. . Bloodline Draconic, Draconic
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 4th; concentration +8)
. . 2nd (4/day)—blur, resist energy
. . 1st (7/day)—mage armor, magic missile, shock shield[UC], vanish[APG] (DC 15)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, detect poison, jolt[UM], message, prestidigitation
. . Bloodline Draconic, Draconic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 14, Con 22, Int 12, Wis 7, Cha 19
Base Atk +7; CMB +12; CMD 25
Feats Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Raging Vitality[APG], Reckless Rage[ACG], Weapon Focus (bite), Weapon Focus (claw)
Traits blood of dragons, courageous, greater purpose
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+10 to jump), Bluff +8 (+6 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Climb +12, Diplomacy +8 (+6 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Disguise +4 (+2 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Escape Artist +6, Fly +14, Handle Animal +8 (+6 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Intimidate +16 (+14 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Knowledge (arcana) +6, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (history) +5, Knowledge (local) +5, Knowledge (nature) +5, Knowledge (nobility) +5, Knowledge (planes) +5, Knowledge (religion) +5, Linguistics +6, Lore (Dragons) +13, Perception +15, Ride +6, Sleight of Hand +3, Spellcraft +5, Survival +2, Swim +12, Use Magic Device +8 (+6 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check)
Languages Common, Draconic, Hallit, Kelish, Osiriani, Polyglot, Tien, Varisian
SQ bestial aspect, bloodline arcana (energy spells that match bloodline energy deal +1 damage per die), fast movement, vain
Combat Gear potion of cure serious wounds; Other Gear belt of physical might +2 (Str, Con), boots of the cat[UE], cloak of resistance +2, eyes of the eagle, furious amulet of mighty fists, headband of alluring charisma +2, ring of sustenance, robe of arcane heritage[APG], 1,250 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bestial Aspect (increased polymorphed damage) (Su) Increase dam of nat attack granted by polymorph spell.
Blood Casting (Su) Cast bloodrager spells while in bloodrage.
Bloodline Arcana: Draconic (Ex) +1 damage per die for [Electricity] spells.
Bloodrage (17 rounds/day) (Su) +4 Str, +6 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Breath Weapon (8d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, 2/day, DC 20) (Su) As a standard action, deal energy damage in area (Ref half).
Breath Weapon (9d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, 2/day, DC 18) (Su) As a standard action, deal energy damage in area (Ref half).
Draconic Resistance (Ex) Gain Electricity resistance 2 and +10 natural armor.
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Electricity Claws & Bite (7 rounds/day) (Su) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks (+1d6 Electricity) that bypass DR as magic weapons. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Magic Claws (Ex) 2 Magic Claw attacks deal 1d8 damage.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed.
Vain -2 to Cha checks for 24h after failing an opposed Cha check

Kal Drak caster version:

Male human (Garundi) bloodrager (rageshaper) 1/dragon disciple 4/sorcerer 4 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 15, 84)
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses low-light vision; Perception +15
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 10, flat-footed 19 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +5 natural, -2 rage, +2 shield)
hp 99 (9 HD; 4d6+1d10+4d12+45)
Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +10; +2 trait bonus vs. fear, +1 trait bonus vs. death effects
Resist draconic resistance, electricity 10
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 40 ft., fly 60 ft. (average)
Melee bite +13 (1d6+18), 2 claws +13 (1d6+13)
Special Attacks bloodrage (7 rounds/day), breath weapon (12d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, DC 21, 2/day), breath weapon (5d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, DC 17, 1/day), claws, claws (2, 1d6 plus 1d6 electricity, treated as magic weapons, 8 rounds/day), dragon bite
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 9th; concentration +14)
. . 4th (5/day)—ball lightning[APG] (DC 19), fear (DC 19), shadow conjuration
. . 3rd (7/day)—dispel magic, fly, haste, lightning bolt (DC 18)
. . 2nd (7/day)—blur, glitterdust (DC 17), communal protection from evil[UC], resist energy, web (DC 17)
. . 1st (8/day)—mage armor, magic missile, polypurpose panacea[UM], shock shield[UC], silent image (DC 16), vanish[APG] (DC 16)
. . 0 (at will)—dancing lights, detect magic, detect poison, ghost sound (DC 15), jolt[UM], mending, message, prestidigitation
. . Bloodline Draconic, Draconic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 24, Dex 14, Con 20, Int 12, Wis 7, Cha 21
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 23
Feats - Custom Feat -, - Custom Feat -, - Custom Feat -, Eschew Materials, Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack
Traits blood of dragons, courageous, greater purpose
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+10 to jump), Bluff +9 (+7 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Climb +11, Diplomacy +9 (+7 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Disguise +5 (+3 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Escape Artist +6, Fly +14, Handle Animal +9 (+7 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Intimidate +12 (+10 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Knowledge (arcana) +13, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (history) +5, Knowledge (local) +5, Knowledge (nature) +5, Knowledge (nobility) +5, Knowledge (planes) +5, Knowledge (religion) +5, Linguistics +6, Lore (Dragons) +13, Perception +15, Ride +6, Sleight of Hand +3, Spellcraft +5, Survival +2, Swim +11, Use Magic Device +9 (+7 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check)
Languages Common, Draconic, Hallit, Kelish, Osiriani, Polyglot, Tien, Varisian
SQ bloodline arcana (energy spells that match bloodline energy deal +1 damage per die), fast movement, vain, wings
Combat Gear potion of cure serious wounds; Other Gear belt of physical might +2 (Str, Con), boots of the cat[UE], cloak of resistance +2, eyes of the eagle, furious amulet of mighty fists, headband of alluring charisma +2, ring of sustenance, robe of arcane heritage[APG], 1,250 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bloodline Arcana: Draconic (Ex) +1 damage per die for [Electricity] spells.
Bloodrage (7 rounds/day) (Su) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Breath Weapon (12d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, 2/day, DC 21) (Su) As a standard action, deal energy damage in area (Ref half).
Breath Weapon (5d6 electricity, 60 ft. line, 1/day, DC 17) (Su) As a standard action, deal energy damage in area (Ref half).
Draconic Resistance (Ex) Gain Electricity resistance 1 and +5 natural armor.
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Electricity Claws & Bite (8 rounds/day) (Su) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks (+1d6 Electricity) that bypass DR as magic weapons. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Fly (60 feet, Average) You can fly!
Heighten Spell Increases spell level to effective level desired.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Magic Claws (Ex) 2 Magic Claw attacks deal 1d6 damage.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Vain -2 to Cha checks for 24h after failing an opposed Cha check
Wings (Su) Can sprout wings and gain a 60' Fly speed with average maneuverability.

The first version can't function as a switch hitter. Just not enough spell casting. But boy can it deliver a thumping to the truly deserving.

The second version is a full 9th level caster and can function reasonably well as a backup melee guy. I think I like that version better. Unless the group ends up not having enough of a melee presence, I will go with the caster version.

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