Gestalt build: best pair for a wizard?


Advice

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My suggestion is Myrmidarch Magus/Wizard Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer. Or Edritch Archer/Wizard/Gunslinger.

Myrmidarch let's you cast spells every turn both in melee and range, while giving you fighter armor/weapon training. Combined with Eldrich Knight and you can cast spells as part of spellstrike/combat and as a swift action using a crit weapon. Yes that's right, double/triple Shocking Grasp in a turn is a thing.

Eldricht Archer is a safer play letting you cast melee/cone spells from afar, while Gunslinger let's those spell still target touch AC. It also frees you up to replace the Wizard Arcane bond, if you so want. Arcane Archer could also work but it's very similar to Eldritch Archer, so milage may vary. Anyways the strategy is to bombard the enemy from afar before they can even react.

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If you choose to use a class with 3/4 or 1/2 BAB progression, remember to you can dip a full BAB class and then get full BAB for the rest of the game. Or you can dip a 3/4 or 1/2 BAB class and loose only 1 BAB (if timed correctly).


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If you're doing this to cover multiple roles then you can't do better than investigator IMO.

Also Temperans' suggestion about getting full BAB easily lasts exactly until the GM realises your exploit, then it stops. Retroactively.


(Well the rules for Gestalt are clear, take the best BAB per level, but yeah the gm can just say nope).


Temperans wrote:
(Well the rules for Gestalt are clear, take the best BAB per level, but yeah the gm can just say nope).
gestalt wrote:
For each save bonus, choose the better progression from the two classes

not clear to me that the ‘better will save progression’ between a fighter and a Wizard is +15 at level 20 (which is what you get if you take the better increase at each level).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It depends on what you want out of the character.

Archery? Elf oracle (Wood mystery, Wood Bond, first 12 FCB to increase effective level with Wood Bond)//wizard. Attack bonus with Wood Bond is pretty much the same as a full-BAB class (with one less iterative at the lowest bonus)... before divine favor/divine power, heroism, etc. (with 9th-level spells in both classes, to boot). If you can stand a dip (on the oracle side, probably) to get all martial weapons, then you might be able to convince your GM to let you take 2-3 levels of arcane archer on the wizard side (for all of the tricks that Imbue Arrow, plus possibly Enhance Arrows (Elemental), lets you pull); you lose one level of spell progression from each side, though.

Another choice might be (any race) zen archer qinggong monk//wizard for more archery, but less spells.

Melee? Occultist with Trappings of the Warrior//wizard. Effectively full BAB with weapon and shield (probably scimitar, or falcata if you can get it, and a quickdraw light shield for action economy and crit-fishing) after gaining the third implement choice, plus both classes use Int for casting. Occultist only gets 6th-level spells, however.

Or maybe avenger vigilante//wizard for combat, skills, and spells.


The wizard 20 // fighter 1 / sorcerer 19 path to full BAB has been known since gestalt was written up. There are people posting on these forums who are younger than this exploit. There are three common means of getting rid if it; fractional BAB and saves, or totalling each side separately, or disallowing multiclassing other than the gestalt entirely. Expect your GM to use one of these (if they aren't already) if you try it on.


As said we’ll probably move to gestalt given the lack of players and so what I’m seeking in the gestalt path is how to enhance the power of my wizard and not how to cover multiple roles.

Qw3rty


TheGreatWot wrote:


Letting a PC smush together two classes into one whole with no downsides and then getting angry when the players try to make it even more powerful is pointless.

Not really? Everything comes in degrees. A fighter//monk isn't that much scarier than either of those two classes by themselves really. It wouldn't be all that weird for a GM to maybe be okay with that but be less than stoked about some of the more advanced options being talked about here, or even some of the things you can accomplish with just a regular non-gestalt wizard.

Telling someone that if they're okay with one kind of power boost they should be okay with every kind of power boost someone can come up with seems a bit silly.


Qw3rty wrote:

As said we’ll probably move to gestalt given the lack of players and so what I’m seeking in the gestalt path is how to enhance the power of my wizard and not how to cover multiple roles.

Qw3rty

That makes no sense at all. When you don't have enough players you need to be able to do more than one thing, not to be more specialised!


avr wrote:
Qw3rty wrote:

As said we’ll probably move to gestalt given the lack of players and so what I’m seeking in the gestalt path is how to enhance the power of my wizard and not how to cover multiple roles.

Qw3rty

That makes no sense at all. When you don't have enough players you need to be able to do more than one thing, not to be more specialised!

That depends on how versatile what you’re doing already is. Spellcasting is already pretty versatile. So being better at spellcasting could increase your versatility.


Part of being a versatile character is not having glairing a glaring weakness that can be easily exploited. This is a 1st level elven wizard with a mediocre CON. The obvious weakness is going to be fortitude saves and low HP. In a normal campaign when the wizard is neutralized it usually takes out ¼ of the party. In this case it could be taking out ½ the party.

The wizard is also a prepared spell caster which means if he prepares the wrong spells he can often become useless. Spontaneous casters have a limited number of spells known so if they don’t know the right spell they also are severely weakened. Having something other than spells you can do will increase your survivability.

With your stats I would go for a slayer as your second class. It covers the full BAB and your weak saves. Studied target and sneak attack can be added to some spells. You also get a lot of useful skills as class skills. Getting +3 on perception and stealth alone is going to be very useful. Your INT is going to give you a decent amount of skills, but getting 4 extra ranks per level is nothing to sneeze at. Don’t forget that studied target also applies to certain skills. Getting another bonus on perception and sense motive is always helpful.


Qw3rty wrote:

As said we’ll probably move to gestalt given the lack of players and so what I’m seeking in the gestalt path is how to enhance the power of my wizard and not how to cover multiple roles.

Qw3rty

So you want to be a wizard/arcanist because that makes you a double wizard with a side of exploits.

BUT the whole reason is because your party is short on bodies. That means your party is short on numbers. This means other people will not be able to cover for YOUR weaknesses. You need to cover them yourself. Expect to get stuck in melee combat at early levels. How are you going to cope with that when nobody else is going to body block for you?

This sounds like a conventional group for a gestalt campaign: we're short on bodies so we'll let you be uber. And you better be uber because you're 3 man group is getting 5 man challenges.

Newsflash: It takes a lot of levels for a wizard to get uber. Maybe your GM will be nice and pull punches. Maybe the other 2 players will cover you better than should be expected. Or maybe you'll just have to start the character over again.

If you want to be a double caster, you can do that. But try to make it something that can contribute to your own defense. Wizard/Druid would be fairly strong. Your wis doesn't have to be nearly as good as your int because you can use the druid spells as support. The same could be said for a Wizard/Cleric. W/C lacks the built in bodyguard that druids get, but the stronger healing and support spells can make up for that.


Temperans wrote:

My suggestion is Myrmidarch Magus/Wizard Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer.

Aren't prestige classes disallowed for Gestalt characters?


Meirril wrote:
Temperans wrote:

My suggestion is Myrmidarch Magus/Wizard Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer.

Aren't prestige classes disallowed for Gestalt characters?

No actually, though the original conception looked down on taking prestige classes intended to combine two classes, and strongly advised against combining two prestige classes at the same level.


avr wrote:
The wizard 20 // fighter 1 / sorcerer 19 path to full BAB has been known since gestalt was written up. There are people posting on these forums who are younger than this exploit. There are three common means of getting rid if it; fractional BAB and saves, or totalling each side separately, or disallowing multiclassing other than the gestalt entirely. Expect your GM to use one of these (if they aren't already) if you try it on.

Totalling each side separately before combining feels the most in the spirit of the rules.

To simplify an example:
L1: Wizard1//Fighter1: +2Will // +1BAB,+1Fort = +1BAB,+1Fort,+2Will
L2: Wiz2//Ftr1/Sor1: (+1BAB, +3Will) // (+1BAB,+2Fort,+2Will) = (+1BAB,+2Fort,+3Will)
L3: Wiz3//Ftr1/Sor2: (+1BAB,+1Fort,+1Ref,+3Will)//(+2BAB,+2Fort,+1Ref,+3Will)=(+2BAB,+2Fort,+1Re f,+3Will)
...
etc.

And the game version that the gestalt rules comes from has this to say about multiclassing:

Quote:

Multiclass Characters

A character may add new classes as he or she progresses in level, thus becoming a multiclass character. The class abilities from a character’s different classes combine to determine a multiclass character’s overall abilities. Multiclassing improves a character’s versatility at the expense of focus.

Class And Level Features
As a general rule, the abilities of a multiclass character are the sum of the abilities of each of the character’s classes.


Whatever you do, though, definitely dip a level of Loremaster so you can qualify for Secret of Magical Discipline Beyond sure you'll always have access to any niche utility spells you need, that feat says you can cast any spell. ANY. Go ahead and cast Cure Light Wounds, or Raise Dead, or Lead Blades. Or just use it to scribe any scroll you want to, because you know all the spells. Literally.

Chronicle of Legends is awesome, absurd, and so, so amazing.


id say if not UNmonk -which is totally powerful. high ac,bab,saves, evasion and d10 hp (some1 up there said d8) AND you get mage armor on all that?

i didn't see it here. maybe i missed it, but the druid is a nice 2nd option . animal friend and wild shape (with Natural Spell - cast druid & wizard spells while assuming a harmless bird form) can be very powerful as well.


Btw Arcanist, specially Blade Bound, could be really good. He gains on demand Mage Armor/Shield of Faith, spellstrike, and a better bonded item.

Arcanist itself would let you have pseudo spontaneous casting, which means you can have more diversity with your spells. Another option would be Blood Arcanist, to get Arcana and more utility.

***********
Someone mentioned Witch, if you go that route that there are 3 options that might interest you:
1- Ashiftah, this trades your Witch familiar for a veil that can store spells, gives you a situational way to deliver melee touch spells, and the ability to disappear (vanish) at will + at will fog cloud++.

2- Mirror Witch, aka Divinitation witch. The witch trades the familiar for a talking mirror that gives her bonuses on future rolls. Eventually, you can cast spells reliably through said mirror.

3- Winter Witch (+PRC and 1 lv dip in sorcerer to get a cold arcana). At lv 14 you are guaranteed to deal cold damage (bypassing immunity), effectivelly stacking ice boost on ice boost on ice boost.

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If you choose U. Rogue, it's probably a good idea to look through the archetypes for something that might be useful. May be even going for Arcane Trickster.


Dαedαlus wrote:

Whatever you do, though, definitely dip a level of Loremaster so you can qualify for Secret of Magical Discipline Beyond sure you'll always have access to any niche utility spells you need, that feat says you can cast any spell. ANY. Go ahead and cast Cure Light Wounds, or Raise Dead, or Lead Blades. Or just use it to scribe any scroll you want to, because you know all the spells. Literally.

Chronicle of Legends is awesome, absurd, and so, so amazing.

i wanted to start a thread to verify that does what it looks like it does. In general, most wizards qualify for loremaster by spending one feat, and at first level you (if you qualify) get one free feat. Which you can spend on that.


If you're wanting to be a shapeshifting wizard with like, dragon form or monstrous form or whatever, you don't actually have a better chassis than barbarian/bloodrager/fighter/slayer

If you want a LEEEEETLE melee but mostly caster, investigator, urogue

If you want to maximize wizardry you take alchemist with cognatogens.


Alchemist is probably the best Wizard Gestalt partner, if what you want is to enhance the Wizard aspects most of all. Alchemsits can gain Cognatogen which increases their INT and other mental scores the way Mutagen does for physical scores. Alchemist + Wizard also gets all good saves, and Alchemists are certainly no slouches when it comes to combat either. They also fit really well thematically, too, since you can get both Alchemist Discoveries and Wizard Discoveries.


Would you then suggest a Mindchemist over a vanilla Alchemist?

Qw3rty


Kaouse wrote:
Alchemist is probably the best Wizard Gestalt partner, if what you want is to enhance the Wizard aspects most of all. Alchemsits can gain Cognatogen which increases their INT and other mental scores the way Mutagen does for physical scores. Alchemist + Wizard also gets all good saves, and Alchemists are certainly no slouches when it comes to combat either. They also fit really well thematically, too, since you can get both Alchemist Discoveries and Wizard Discoveries.

Bombs also minimize the need to learn any blasting magic, leaving that spell list free for sweet sweet god magic.


I wouldn't really call it the "best" gestalt, but Metamorph Alchemist would be pretty interesting for a hybridish character. You can stay in Deathsnatcher form all day long at 6th level, adding pounce at 9th level. The form doesn't hinder spellcasting at all, and you could chose between mutagen or cognatogen depending on what you want to focus on for a given situation. Might want to use Weapon Finesse so that your mutagen doesn't hinder the casting and the cognatogen doesn't hinder the attack roll.

Ryan Freire wrote:
Bombs also minimize the need to learn any blasting magic, leaving that spell list free for sweet sweet god magic.

Only if you invest enough feats into them.

Qw3rty wrote:
Would you then suggest a Mindchemist over a vanilla Alchemist?

If you want a Cognatogen and don't want to take a different, non-stacking archetype, you take Mindchemist, yes. Even if you want both Mutagen and Cognatogen - Perfect Recall is so much better than Poison Use!


In Gestalt you only have one set of actions, one set of ability scores, and one set of feats. Thus the best option is always to pair an "active" class with things that give good passive bonuses, work out combat and don't require their own feat support while either using the same or no attributes as the other class. Wizard is absolutely an active class.

Slayer or Ranger give d10/full BAB, all good saves, bonus feats and 6 skill points per level. Slayer is likely better for Wizards since Sneak Attack is passive while Ranger spells are based on Wisdom (normally of low importance for wizard) and Favored Enemy is situational.

Unfortunately adding your intelligence modifier to things is in short supply. Substituting intelligence is less rare, but still not common outside of spells. I can't think of or find any methods of getting intelligence to things that aren't something a single class wizard could already take.

Honestly, Wizard is probably the class that benefits the least from Gestalt in first party PF only. Wizard is still good in a gestalt game, but ultimately you're still "just" a less squishy wizard.


Update: fractional BAB and saves and no hybrid classes if they share a base class with the other gestalt side.

Qw3rty


Yeah, ucMonk sounds better and better.


The character has a 7 STR and a 11 WIS so going monk is not going to gain all that much. Since the character has no WIS bonus the only extra AC will be from gaining levels, and that does not kick in until 4th level. Flurry of blows is also going to be of limited use. Without a WIS bonus your KI pool will be lower than normal thereby limiting the use of Ki abilities. The DC for stunning fist will also be nerfed. In short monk (unchained or normal) is a poor choice for this character.

Studied Target and Sneak attack can apply to spells so boost his ability as a wizard. At second level he can take Finesse Rogue as a slayer talent to get weapon finesse without having to spend a feat that could be used to boost the wizard side. Later he can pick up trapfinding or weapon training (Ray). He also gains a lot of skill points and most skills as class skills. This is a better choice for this character.


Qw3rty wrote:

Update: fractional BAB and saves and no hybrid classes if they share a base class with the other gestalt side.

Qw3rty

Just drawing extra attention to this, so it will be a little less ignored by future posts.

You may want to make a post that reiterates all of your needs, wants and rules in the same place, so people can give you more helpful advice.


Hi All,

I’d like to have your recommendations for a gestalt build.

Main class is a Diviner Wizard, and my first thought was to pair it with a base unchained rogue for additional skill point, free Finesse Training and Sneak Attack, even if I’d like to avoid to be engaged in melee.

Some additional information:

Wizard stats are 7,18,12,20,11,7, actually first level, the plan is to go up to the 20th in a Tomb of Horrors/Rappan Athuk adventure.

We are using the Unchained Action Economy and fractional BAB and saves. No hybrid classes are allowed for the gestalt if they share a base class with the other side.

Until now I received a lot of useful recommendation, what I liked the most are the Alchemist (Mindchemist/Internal Alchemist or Metamorph) and the Investigator (Empiricist).

Do you have any other suggestion for a better second class?

Thank you.

Qw3rty


Qw3rty wrote:

Hi All,

I’d like to have your recommendations for a gestalt build.

Main class is a Diviner Wizard, and my first thought was to pair it with a base unchained rogue for additional skill point, free Finesse Training and Sneak Attack, even if I’d like to avoid to be engaged in melee.

Some additional information:

Wizard stats are 7,18,12,20,11,7, actually first level, the plan is to go up to the 20th in a Tomb of Horrors/Rappan Athuk adventure.

We are using the Unchained Action Economy and fractional BAB and saves. No hybrid classes are allowed for the gestalt if they share a base class with the other side.

Until now I received a lot of useful recommendation, what I liked the most are the Alchemist (Mindchemist/Internal Alchemist or Metamorph) and the Investigator (Empiricist).

Do you have any other suggestion for a better second class?

Thank you.

Qw3rty

Of your preferred choices, I like the alchemist better. But.... if you are wanting to be the traps person, you would probably be better off to pick that up as a slayer than as the investigator, so you can grab all of the good saves and BAB while you are at it. Between the alchemist and the slayer, the alchemist should be better for focusing on casting and the slayer better at handling the non-casting things if that ever comes up.

It might help to know what your teammates are thinking of handling, as you don't really need more than one traps person, and I really don't like the idea of your primary caster being the one handling that.

Grand Lodge

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FWIW alchemists can handle traps pretty well too, even magical ones if you can learn the Aram Zey’s Focus extract (it’s possible that you might not be able to since it’s associated with the pathfinder society, ask your GM)

That being said... you can go pure wizard on one side and multiclass empiricist investigator 3/Mindchemist alchemist 17 for some silly bonuses to skills. Int for perception, SM, some diplomacy, disable device, etc, free inspiration dice on all knowledge skills and double your int bonus to recall knowledge on top of that. Plus trapfinding and most of the fun stuff alchemists get too


I’m wondering if there is a way to have divine spellcasting on Intelligence.

Qw3rty


Qw3rty wrote:

I’m wondering if there is a way to have divine spellcasting on Intelligence.

Qw3rty

Living Grimoire Inquisitor comes to mind. Plus, you get to literally 'throw the book' at wrongdoers.


Qw3rty wrote:
I’m wondering if there is a way to have divine spellcasting on Intelligence.

For questions like this one, check out this spreadsheet!


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

The character has a 7 STR and a 11 WIS so going monk is not going to gain all that much. Since the character has no WIS bonus the only extra AC will be from gaining levels, and that does not kick in until 4th level. Flurry of blows is also going to be of limited use. Without a WIS bonus your KI pool will be lower than normal thereby limiting the use of Ki abilities. The DC for stunning fist will also be nerfed. In short monk (unchained or normal) is a poor choice for this character.

Studied Target and Sneak attack can apply to spells so boost his ability as a wizard. At second level he can take Finesse Rogue as a slayer talent to get weapon finesse without having to spend a feat that could be used to boost the wizard side. Later he can pick up trapfinding or weapon training (Ray). He also gains a lot of skill points and most skills as class skills. This is a better choice for this character.

Early game you gain the d10 hp, full BAB and best saves possible. With a few levels you gain some movement abilities, and immunities to poisons and diseases.

Since the campaign is looking to head to 20th level the deficiencies in stats can be made up in items. Sure the first stat boosting item will be int, but the second being Wis is a very solid choice. And long before that a 2nd level spell can be used to give +2 AC and +2 will save. Not bad at all.

Considering that hybrid classes are not being allowed in this campaign, slayer and investigator are off the table.


Hybrid classes are allowed, but you just can’t “double up” on classes with it. So no slayer/rogue or oracle/shaman. Or in this case, no arcanist/wizard.


If those are not exactly the finalized level 1 stats, I'd honestly drop int by 1 and bump CON to 14 and WIS to 12. You'll get that extra point of INT at level 4 and in return get 1 hitpoint per level and a +1 bonus to Will and Fortitude.

I think you just need to ignore our recommendations for a second and ask yourself exactly what you want your character to do. It sounds like you want to be stealthy and get the drop on people, but stay out of melee, but perhaps you want to elaborate for your own benefit as well as ours.

If you're set on a Diviner Wizard, ignore anything else I'm going to say in this post, but...I think maybe choose a different base class. Temperans suggested Arcanist and Witch...Arcanist is potentially a much better class than Wizard because with fewer players than normal you will be counted on more than normal to have the right spell for the job...that's harder to do with a Wizard than it is an Arcanist, as for the Wizard ensuring you have the right spell means you'll have to spread your spells thin and thus be unlikely to have enough of the spell you DO need.

Witch, especially Ashiftah Witch, is arguably a very good choice, and does pair fairly nicely with uRogue...the only issue you'll find is that Witches don't have attack cantrips to activate Sneak Attack...you'll need to take a Rogue Talent that gives you it...OR take the Eldritch Scoundrel Rogue archetype...

Honestly,Eldritch Scoundrel//Ashiftah Witch would actually be a REALLY interesting combination in my opinion. The Ashiftah can naturally give you invisibility that would allow you to fire off a weapon or spell, since the Eldritch Scoundrel gives you 6th level Wizard casting. Witch will give you healing spells and a few others that Wizard won't give you (doubly so if you choose a patron like Ancestors) and the only drawback ultimately is that Eldritch Scoundrel doesn't get Sneak Attack until level 3.

Living Grimoire Inquisitor gives you the Int-based divine spellcasting you need and a better Fort save and some interesting spells, but that didn't sound like what you actually wanted to go with. IF you can take dips in the secondary class, I might make this recommendation:

Ashiftah Witch as base class
First level dip in vanilla uRogue or one which doesn't give up sneak attack
Rest in Living Grimoire Inquisitor

You'll get sneak attack that can progress with feats, you'll get the pseudo (from hexes) invisibility that you wanted as well as REAL invisibility from the Inquisitor spell list (and Inquisitor gives you the attack cantrips I mentioned Ashiftah Witch is missing), you'll still have super strong spellcasting (and full-power Hexes, like Slumber which pairs nicely with your desire for stealth, or the Flight hex at level 5) and other fun benefits.

Just some thoughts.


Thank you but yes, the wizard side is set as well as the stats.

What I’m looking for is the “best” advancement to pair with a 20 level wizard for a gestalt build, enhancing the possibility of my character in a deadly dungeon delving campaign as Tone of Horrors/Rappan Athuk

Qw3rty


Since your stats are set that is going to limit your choices. With a 7 CHA and 11 WIS you are severely limited in the ability to choose another caster class. Your character also has some weaknesses that should be patched up. With a CON of 12 you need a class with a good fortitude save and that gives you more HP. Being the best dead character is not what you want to be aiming for. Ideally you want something that also gives you a good reflex save and possibly evasion.

That leaves very few choices. Alchemist meets the minimum criteria, but investigator does not. You also want to avoid classes that rely on heavy armor and whose class abilities mesh well with a wizard. Any class relying on your low stats should be avoided. What that leaves is fighter, magus and slayer. Fighter could work because there are a enough combat feats like dodge that can still be useful to a wizard, but this does not really do anything to enhance your wizards abilities. A DEX focused magus could work. Take weapon finesse and something to give you DEX to damage and you are probably good.

As I have said before Slayer is also a good possibility.

If you really want to focus solely on spells at the expense of all else and ignore your weaknesses than you could go Sage bloodline sorcerer. Use your sorcerer spells for combat and the wizard spells for utility. This character would be doubling down on your weaknesses, but if you are ok with that it may be what you are looking for


I think some people have been traumatized by overpowered gestalt campaign experiences. It really doesn't seem like this GM is upping the difficulty of the adventure. At least not yet.


One question that I do not think has been answered yet: What are the other players playing? Presumably since Wizard is fixed, their original classes are also, even if you do not know yet what they are adding to it, right?

_
glass.


I wouldn’t dismiss Swashtigator over the subpar fort save. Getting attacked happens a lot more than fort saves, and swashbuckler is one of the few ways available to dramatically address your paltry AC issue. And investigator can add d6s to fort saves anyway. Along with poison immunity, if you feel so inclined.

I would probably go swash 1/investigator x with two levels of brawler at some point, but swash 1/Slayer x is a fine option as well.

Silver Crusade

you don't NEED a good fort save, you can just use the Twist away feat

though, you would need evasion.


Other characters are a warpriest with no channeling and a fighter with sky high AC.

Qw3rty


The war priest will probably choose either a full martial class with some bonuses or another WIS based class. If goes with Inquisitor you will have a decent skill monkey. If he goes with a full martial class like cavalier you will have two very strong front line fighters. Even if he goes with another medium BAB class he will probably still be good in a fight.

The fighter is a little harder to predict. If he is going the heavy armored character his second class is probably not going to be anything sneaky. In that case alchemist would probably be a good choice for him. If he goes with a DEX based fighter than choosing something like rouge or another sneaky class would be a good choice. In any event no matter what he goes with he will be competent in fight.

This means that you have two characters that can deal with melee combat. That is not all that much different than a normal party. This gives you a little more leeway on your character. With two good frontline combatants you can play something that avoids the frontline a little easier. If the fighter does not go with alchemist, that may be a good choice for you. If that case take precise bomb and use the alchemist for your main damage and the wizard to handle the unusual.

Depending on the build of the fighter you may not have a stealth based character. If the fighter is going the heavy armor route no on in your group will have decent scouting abilities. An alchemist does not get stealth as a class skill, but you can always use a trait to get it as a class skill. If the fighter is goes alchemist and no one else has a decent stealth slayer would be what I would go with.

If the fighter is going alchemist and someone is covering the scouting and trap finding then going with Sage bloodline sorcerer could work. It does leave your fortitude save as your weak point so pick up great fortitude ASAP.


Fighter/brawler seems weak AF at first but honestly, being able to be a badass at ranged combat and close combat with your 40someodd feats seems legit.


Ryan Freire wrote:
Fighter/brawler seems weak AF at first but honestly, being able to be a badass at ranged combat and close combat with your 40someodd feats seems legit.

Other than breaking the campaign rules, it sounds good.

But compare that to being a Fighter/Cleric. Self buffing is good. Fighter/Warpriest or Inquisitor could be amazing too. Honestly any class that doesn't have to deal with arcane spell failure and can buff AC is better than a few more feats.

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