Combat Competence and Oversized weapons for fighters.


Rules Questions


So I'm building a fighter with the Gloomblade archtype, and I'm thinking of making the weapon one size category larger then myself for the purpose of dealing more damage with vital strikes and a couple other things added in. My question though is would Combat Competence from the advanced weapons training help to nullify -2 penalty for wielding weapons a size category larger?


No. Combat Competence only helps with non-proficiency penalties. Wrong-size penalties are a different thing.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
No. Combat Competence only helps with non-proficiency penalties. Wrong-size penalties are a different thing.

That said then, would the shadow weapon from the gloomblade have a weight that would effect wrong-size modifiers? Or would he be able to wield it like any other weapon he has proficiency in?


KrynWinterbourne wrote:
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
No. Combat Competence only helps with non-proficiency penalties. Wrong-size penalties are a different thing.
That said then, would the shadow weapon from the gloomblade have a weight that would effect wrong-size modifiers? Or would he be able to wield it like any other weapon he has proficiency in?

I'm not sure I understand the question. I don't see anything about weight in the gloomblade description, so I assume a shadow weapon has the same weight as its non-shadow equivalent. He should certainly wield it as if it were a non-shadow weapon of its type and size.

P.S. Looking at the gloomblade, I think I would ask the GM before assuming I could create extra-size shadow weapons, though. I could see rulings either way.


Bear in mind, you're only going to get one die of size increase, which simply isn't going to be worth taking the to hit penalties.

Weapon damage dice have always been the smaller portion of damage once you get past low levels. Heck, once you're using power attack and have a moderate strength bonus your static damage will exceed your average weapon damage roll. And that's before you add any other special abilities or magic weapon enhancements.

In general, unless you have a way to cheat the normal rules, increasing your weapon size is usually a net loss to damage, not an increase.

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Claxon wrote:

Bear in mind, you're only going to get one die of size increase, which simply isn't going to be worth taking the to hit penalties.

Weapon damage dice have always been the smaller portion of damage once you get past low levels. Heck, once you're using power attack and have a moderate strength bonus your static damage will exceed your average weapon damage roll. And that's before you add any other special abilities or magic weapon enhancements.

In general, unless you have a way to cheat the normal rules, increasing your weapon size is usually a net loss to damage, not an increase.

By cheat the normal rules, do you mean things like combining titan mauler/titan fighter, butchering axes, and impacting ability?


I was thinking more along the lines of a Cave Druid turning into a Carnivorous Crystal and using monk levels with Fercal Combat Training to flurry its high damage natural attack. Although I think something about the combo was errata'd so it doesn't work anymore.

But yes, I didn't mean actual cheating but more finding specifically exploitable combinations.


Claxon wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of a Cave Druid turning into a Carnivorous Crystal and using monk levels with Fercal Combat Training to flurry its high damage natural attack. Although I think something about the combo was errata'd so it doesn't work anymore.

But yes, I didn't mean actual cheating but more finding specifically exploitable combinations.

Actually, one of the basis for the character is going through the Vital Strike feat tree. As such, the Vital Strike(Mythic) only has a prerequisite of having Vital Strike, thus technically allowing it's use without needing any tiers into Mythic. Hence why I'm opting to use a larger weapon with more damage die because the mythic version multiplies all static damage by the number of dice rolled for each version of the Vital Strike tree.

The only concern I would have after that, is would that static damage in turn also multiply when a confirmed critical hit is applied. I understand the extra die from the Vital Strike is not multiplied upon crits, but I haven't seen anything much for two multiples stacking on each other.
Also the large weapon I'm using is a Greataxe, which goes from a 1d12 to a 3d6. Though I did see other options that still make it to 3d6, I choose it specifically for it's x3 multiplier and intend to also increase it's crit range through various methods.


KrynWinterbourne wrote:
As such, the Vital Strike(Mythic) only has a prerequisite of having Vital Strike, thus technically allowing it's use without needing any tiers into Mythic.

You missed the first rule of Mythic Feats.

Mythic characters and monsters gain mythic feats as they gain tiers or ranks. These feats can be selected only as part of mythic advancement, not as part of a character's normal advancement or in place of any other bonus feat.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
KrynWinterbourne wrote:
As such, the Vital Strike(Mythic) only has a prerequisite of having Vital Strike, thus technically allowing it's use without needing any tiers into Mythic.

You missed the first rule of Mythic Feats.

Mythic characters and monsters gain mythic feats as they gain tiers or ranks. These feats can be selected only as part of mythic advancement, not as part of a character's normal advancement or in place of any other bonus feat.

Well my character currently isn't at a level for those feats right now, but I do intend to make it at least Tier 1 mythic before then. It's simply the path I'm leading towards.

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