Savage Technologist and Gunsmithing class choice [PFS]


Advice

The Concordance

Boomy here is my PFS leshy shootist.

But I can't decide what class and archetype to use to give him Gunsmithing, necessary for the purchase of guns in PFS. The Savage Technologist barbarian archetype does not give access. Here are my options.

1. gunslinger (no archetype); advantages are Quick Clear deed, and WIS based grit so better Will save (I can rebuild to adjust CHA and WIS)
2. gunslinger with Mysterious Stranger archetype: advantages are CHA based grit and CHA to damage with guns (by spending grit). CHA synergises with Mouser swashbuckler, which is a part of this build.
3. spellscar drifter cavalier: advantages are CHA based grit, Quick Clear deed via Amateur Gunslinger, a 1/day challenge and a mount I won't use

I only need one level of any Gunsmithing class - I'll take 5 levels of Savage Technologist barbarian for DEX to damage with guns.

If I go with vanilla gunslinger, there is an option of taking the techslinger archetype later if I play the right module. If I choose one of the CHA based options, techslinger would be less effective.

The chief mechanical goal here is getting into the enemy's space with Mouser underfoot assault and unloading firearms point blank. Any of these 3 options will achieve the goal. The comparison is between different grit/panache configurations, Quick Clear vs Focused Aim, and higher CHA or WIS.

Thoughts?


Option 4 would be to just take the gunsmithing feat. Kind of hard given you don't even have PBS & precise shot yet though.

If you have grit and panache they form one pool, but if both are Cha based then you only add Cha to that pool once. If one's Cha and one Wis then you add both stat mods to the pool. This says option 1 is the best to me.

The Concordance

Grit and panache count as one thing for the purpose of the “no adding x to y twice” rule then? I thought that rule applied to adding bonuses?


Apparently. They've ruled it the opposite way in the past but the latest is no stacking twice Cha.


Unrelated, but avr, I'm just gonna be honest with you here.

I thought your profile was a woman holding a banjo.


S'OK, I've got blessed ammo loaded for...whatever you are.


I think someone pointing a banjo at me in a fantasy setting would be scarier, actually.


If I had a barbarian or a magus handy maybe, but all I have is a small but vicious dog.


Baroness Drelev had a small but vicious dog in our Kingmaker campaign, and my wizard still reduced her to a pile of ash after he took a thrown candlestick to the head.

The Concordance

Could you point me to the source for the latest ruling please avr? I shall probably go for option 1 anyway, techslinger fits very well.


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Another couple of decent options if you are looking to diversify your skillset, gun chemist(alchemist) and steel hound (investigator). Steel hound requires 2 levels for some reason, and gun chemist doesn't get quick clear, it gets a different ability to accomplish the same thing instead. You probably wouldn't get enough uses though with just a single level.

Shadow Lodge

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One detail you might want to keep in mind with this Barbarian archetype:

Sword and Gun (Ex) wrote:
At 2nd level, when a raging savage technologist wields a one-handed firearm in one hand and a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other, she can make ranged attacks with the firearm without provoking attacks of opportunity. She also gains the benefits of the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, but only if all attacks are made with those weapons. This ability replaces Uncanny Dodge.

Please note this ability doesn't give you the ability to actually reload your firearm (since your other hand has a melee weapon in it), so you'll probably need to spring for a (non-Pepperbox) multi-shot gun if you intend to shoot using this option.


I am familiar with Gunslingers and Savage Technologists from my Iron Gods campaign, but I am unfamiliar with Pathfinder Society. Is there something about PFS that prevents taking Gunsmithing as a feat? All I found in a web search was a 2012 post,Gunslingers / PFS alchemy+gunsmithing, which says,

noswald wrote:

The following two feats function differently in Pathfinder Society Organized Play than they do in regular games:

Gunsmithing does not grant the ability to craft firearms, ammunition, or black powder. Rather, it allows the purchase of bullets, pellets, black powder, and alchemical cartridges (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) at the listed reduced price, but does not grant a discount on the purchase of any firearm. Resold items gained through this feat are worth half the actual cost paid, not half the regular market value for the item. No PC can purchase a gun without this feat, even if they possess the Amateur Gunslinger or Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearm) feats.

Savage Technologist barbarian lacks both Gunsmithing and a starting firearm, but does gain firearm proficiency. Gunsmithing can be taken as a feat. A firearm can be purchased once Gunsmithing has been learned. The Fame requirement for expensive PFS purchases might limit that to later than 1st level. How fast is fame earned?

I ran an NPC Savage Technologist bloodrager in my Iron Gods campaign and she did not acquire a firearm until late 2nd level. Unlike a gunslinger, she relied on her other bloodrager (essentially barbarian) abilities before the firearm, and still relied on them mostly after gaining a pistol, later upgraded to a laser pistol and a firedrake pistol. Of course, she was just an NPC, so I did not mind nerfing her, but I was amusing myself by testing the homemade adaption of Savage Technologist to bloodrager, so I was trying for balance.

Taja the Barbarian wrote:

One detail you might want to keep in mind with this Barbarian archetype:

Sword and Gun (Ex) wrote:
At 2nd level, when a raging savage technologist wields a one-handed firearm in one hand and a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other, she can make ranged attacks with the firearm without provoking attacks of opportunity. She also gains the benefits of the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, but only if all attacks are made with those weapons. This ability replaces Uncanny Dodge.

Please note this ability doesn't give you the ability to actually reload your firearm (since your other hand has a melee weapon in it), so you'll probably need to spring for a (non-Pepperbox) multi-shot gun if you intend to shoot using this option.

My Savage Technologist bloodrager handled the lack of safe reloading by shooting only once per encounter. She reloaded between encounters. A Savage Technologist lacks Quick Clear deed, so shooting once also made misfires less of a problem.

Shadow Lodge

Mathmuse wrote:

I am familiar with Gunslingers and Savage Technologists from my Iron Gods campaign, but I am unfamiliar with Pathfinder Society. Is there something about PFS that prevents taking Gunsmithing as a feat?

...

I assume the issue is the pure number of feats the character wants, so getting a bonus feat is very valuable.

Mathmuse wrote:
The Fame requirement for expensive PFS purchases might limit that to later than 1st level. How fast is fame earned?

As I recall, 1-2 per adventure, so 3-6 per level (The charts are based on an average of 4.5 per level)

Mathmuse wrote:
My Savage Technologist bloodrager handled the lack of safe reloading by shooting only once per encounter. She reloaded between encounters. A Savage Technologist lacks Quick Clear deed, so shooting once also made misfires less of a problem.

Personally, one shot per (raging) encounter seems a little underwhelming to me, given the resources you typically have to put into firearms to make them effective.

The Concordance

I will use a pepperbox and a cestus. The cestus leaves the hand wielding it available for reloading, but in any event the pepperbox can fire 6 shots before needing to reload.

Gunsmithing is essential for purchasing firearms; feats are at such a premium though that a class dip that grants the feat as well as grit and deeds is much preferable.

I can get a pepperbox 'early' (mid level 2) using a PFS boon, and will take a blunderbuss as my battered firearm for utility.


Can't remember or find where this is from - d20pfsrd doesn't tell - but this is the current version. The older version left out 'do not'. And yes, while the wording doesn't explicitly exclude grit users based off Cha stacking with panache, I remember the change being made specifically to stop multiple sources of Cha adding to the pool.

Quote:

Grit, Luck, and Panache

Grit, luck, and panache represent three different means by which heroes can gain access to the same heroic pool, using it to accomplish fantastic feats. For characters with a mix of grit, luck, and panache, they pool the resources together into a combined pool. (Those who use panache and luck do not gain twice their Charisma bonus in their pool.) For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain luck points in place of grit or panache points, and vice versa.

A luck user does not count as a grit or panache user to satisfy feat prerequisites. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed’s level requirement.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Mathmuse wrote:

I am familiar with Gunslingers and Savage Technologists from my Iron Gods campaign, but I am unfamiliar with Pathfinder Society. Is there something about PFS that prevents taking Gunsmithing as a feat?

...

I assume the issue is the pure number of feats the character wants, so getting a bonus feat is very valuable.

Mathmuse wrote:
The Fame requirement for expensive PFS purchases might limit that to later than 1st level. How fast is fame earned?

As I recall, 1-2 per adventure, so 3-6 per level (The charts are based on an average of 4.5 per level)

Mathmuse wrote:
My Savage Technologist bloodrager handled the lack of safe reloading by shooting only once per encounter. She reloaded between encounters. A Savage Technologist lacks Quick Clear deed, so shooting once also made misfires less of a problem.
Personally, one shot per (raging) encounter seems a little underwhelming to me, given the resources you typically have to put into firearms to make them effective.

The standard gunslinger build is feat intensive: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Rapid Reload. Thus, I see why claiming Gunsmithing for free would be worth multiclassing.

My shoot-once strategy removed the need for Rapid Reload, so I saved a feat that way instead. If I had gone for an even more unusual approach, then I could have dropped Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot and made that single shot only against an enemy not yet in melee. However, my Savage Technologist bloodrager preferred to charge first and shoot later, so she would shoot into melee later.

In the five-member party, she was the 2nd best damage dealer, worse than the magus but better than the fighter and the skald--and I was trying to underplay how strong she was. The gunslinger was an unusual battlefield control build, the only battlefield controller I have seen without magic, and deliberately gave up damage for control.

My main point is that a Savage Technologist can be played differently from a gunslinger.

The Concordance

Thanks avr. Looks like a borderline case, but I think the intent would be the prevention of CHA stacking. I'm going with option 1.

I think you're right Mathmuse, savage technologist is a different beast than gunslinger. Boom Sticks will be very up close and personal!

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