is it PFS legal to use "Gifted Adept" "Call Animal" to get a higher CR level pet / summons?


Rules Questions


Allow me to introduce the RaW:

https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/rpg/additional
Equipment: Only creatures of the animal type of size Large and smaller may be purchased. No eggs are legal for play. A PC can only purchase an animal, mount, or similar creature if its Challenge Rating is lower than that character's level; creatures with a Challenge Rating of 1 or lower are exempt from this restriction, as are horses.

Call Animal (spell)
This spell calls the nearest wild animal of a particular type you designate (provided the animal’s [u]CR is equal to or less than your caster level[/u]) to seek you out. The animal moves toward you under its own power, so the time it takes to arrive depends on how close an animal of the desired type is when you cast the spell. If there is no animal of that type capable of reaching you within the spell’s duration, you are aware of this fact, but the spell is wasted. Knowledge of the local fauna makes this spell more effective, and the GM may permit a Knowledge (nature) skill check (DC 15) to know what animals can be found in an area.

When the called animal arrives, it approaches to within 5 feet of you and remains nearby for the duration of the spell.

Its starting attitude is indifferent, [u]modified by circumstances and interaction[/u]. Other than starting attitude, this spell gives you no special influence or ability to communicate with the called animal, although you may use other spells or abilities to do so.

Gifted Adept (trait)
Benefit: Pick one spell when you choose this trait—from this point on, whenever you cast that spell, its effects manifest at +1 caster level.

War Trained Mount (spell)
You instill the target animal with the combat training general purpose (see Handle Animal). This supersedes the animal’s previous trained purpose and any tricks it knows. When the spell ends, it reverts to its previous trained purpose and known tricks.

Scenerio:
Lvl 2 character with Gifted Adept; "Call Animal"
Nature Check: "are there any Dire Wolves in that forest (or similarly large(r) creatures)?
DM: yes there are.
"Call Animal" for Dire Wolf (a CR3 animal)
Feed and pet Animal (GM's discretion if that changes attitude based on "modified by circumstances and interaction" (per Call Animal)).
Attempt "Wild Empathy" check to move from "Indifferent" (as per Call Animal) to "Friendly" or "Friendly" to "Helpful".
If fail, spell; "Charm Monster".
Then cast "War Trained Mount"

Question 1; Does PFS allow Gifted Adept to be used in this way?
Question 2; is this a "pet" or a "summons"? As I understand you can only have 1 Combat ready pet or companion at a time but there is stated limit on summons (example Animate Dead/ Create Undead/ Summon Nature Ally).

Grand Lodge

It does not count as a purchased pet, therefore said dire wolf goes away when the spell duration wears off or the scenario ends, whichever comes first. So you’re not restricted to the CR of animal by the purchasing equipment rules.

But yeah, if you count as CL3 for the spell you can call a CR3 dire wolf to help out for the duration, even if you’re level 2. You won’t get much consistency in PFS using that strategy and at the mid to high levels of PFS play you’ll find that it’s unlikely you’ll find an animal that could come to your call that is any higher than maybe CR 6.

I’m honestly not sure if it counts as a pet/companion or not though. I’m leaning towards ‘No’ since it’s not a permanent companion. Otherwise you’re opening the door to not being allow to have multiple summoned creatures under your control, though that is resoundingly allowed in PFS play.


Thx!


The biggest problem is with not getting to start the adventure with the animal and many scenarios not giving you a good opportunity to pull the combo off. So, it'd be a nice thing to do sometimes, but you couldn't rely on it for every scenario.


... I'm not as familiar with PFS as I'd like but the 3 books I've been in have always started in a forest prior to a dungeon crawl... (Maybe I've just been lucky)?

Question is still in play, does this count toward the animal companion? (I think it is a "summons" because you know "call" and "summons" but???

Lantern Lodge

Really, what I want to know is how a level 2 character casts Charm Monster!

:]


@Captain Zoom, I'm not sure I get it? Did I write Charm Monster or Charm Animal? A Dire Wolf is an animal, unless you know something I don't? :/


It’s not an animal companion.


Anvil, you wrote 'Charm Monster' in your original post in this thread. Charm Animal was what you meant?


This all works, given the GM's responses in the above scenario.

You have been lucky. Lots of scenarios don't start in a forest. Of course, there are usually other animals more suitable for calling. And you're taking a risk when you call a dire wolf. Things that can go wrong:

1. You might fail your wild empathy check.
2. It might arrive unfriendly or hostile due to circumstances.
3. It might take a very long time to arrive due to distance, which can be a dealbreaker for some scenarios.

All that taken into consideration, though, call animal is still a remarkably useful spell. Have fun with it!


4. Some of its pack might follow it.

Lantern Lodge

Anvil Mithrashield wrote:
@Captain Zoom, I'm not sure I get it? Did I write Charm Monster or Charm Animal? A Dire Wolf is an animal, unless you know something I don't? :/

Scenerio: ...

If fail, spell; "Charm Monster". <<<<<<<<<<<


Melkiador wrote:
4. Some of its pack might follow it.

Ha, that too. Time to play quintuple-or-nothing on that wild empathy check.


blahpers wrote:

This all works, given the GM's responses in the above scenario.

You have been lucky. Lots of scenarios don't start in a forest. Of course, there are usually other animals more suitable for calling. And you're taking a risk when you call a dire wolf. Things that can go wrong:

1. You might fail your wild empathy check.
2. It might arrive unfriendly or hostile due to circumstances.
3. It might take a very long time to arrive due to distance, which can be a dealbreaker for some scenarios.

All that taken into consideration, though, call animal is still a remarkably useful spell. Have fun with it!

The spell's language specifically says; "indifferent". #2 should never be valid.

If other animals arrive they should also be indifferent. All should go away if the wild empathy checks fail.

#3 "a very long time" I'd think the character failed his knowledge nature check for that to happen. Because the check implies known animal known distance.

Most scenarios in PFS seem to start in a city where the group meets then go somewhere else or such has been my experience. Nature is always all around you and the going somewhere else is plenty of time to use this trick. Also for anyone interested reformation inquisition can be grabbed with a feat so you can use wisdom on your wild empathy checks https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/inquisitions/inqui stions-paizo/reformation-inquisition/

P.s. I found the "charm monster" my bad thanks!


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Anvil Mithrashield wrote:
The spell's language specifically says; "indifferent". #2 should never be valid.
Call Animal wrote:
Its starting attitude is indifferent, modified by circumstances and interaction.
Quote:
If other animals arrive they should also be indifferent. All should go away if the wild empathy checks fail.

Call animal compels a single animal to come to you. Animals that follow that animal of their own accord act under their own volition; their minds are not affected.

Quote:
#3 "a very long time" I'd think the character failed his knowledge nature check for that to happen. Because the check implies known animal known distance.

Knowledge (nature) is not clairvoyance. The scope of such a check falls under GM purview. "There is a wolf exactly 1,512 feet away at bearing 141 degrees" is not going to be a thing for most GMs. "This area of the woods seems like good territory for a wolf den, and wolves are known to be native to this region's forests" would be reasonable. Much more than that and you're stepping on the toes of Survival and Knowledge (geography).

Quote:
Most scenarios in PFS seem to start in a city where the group meets then go somewhere else or such has been my experience. Nature is always all around you and the going somewhere else is plenty of time to use this trick. Also for anyone interested reformation inquisition can be grabbed with a feat so you can use wisdom on your wild empathy checks https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/inquisitions/inqui stions-paizo/reformation-inquisition/

If those are the conditions you tend to find when adventuring, then yeah, you're more likely to benefit from the spell. Enjoy it! There may be situations in which it doesn't work as well, and there are other tools for those situations.


"Call animal compels a single animal to come to you. Animals that follow that animal of their own accord act under their own volition; their minds are not affected."

I didn't read where that might happen as a result of a "Call Animal" spell? To my knowledge there is no roll the player makes to succeed in casting the spell, hence no way to fail it. Why would that happen, specifically as it applies to PFS/ organized play?

Perspectively, I've been GMing for 34 years. If it's not in the rules, why would a GM do that (outside of hating druids or disliking a particular player)?

Grand Lodge

I mean, a GM might rule that hey, the alpha of a pack of wolves was called. It’s pack is probably going to follow it.

Herd animals like deer would almost certainly follow others of its kind.

Maybe the animal that gets called is being stalked by a predator and now the PC has a leopard to deal with too.

It’s extrapolating for sure, but I don’t see that as an inherently unreasonable call by the GM.


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Anvil Mithrashield wrote:

"Call animal compels a single animal to come to you. Animals that follow that animal of their own accord act under their own volition; their minds are not affected."

I didn't read where that might happen as a result of a "Call Animal" spell? To my knowledge there is no roll the player makes to succeed in casting the spell, hence no way to fail it. Why would that happen, specifically as it applies to PFS/ organized play?

Your example was a wolf. Wolves are social creatures. If a member of the pack wanders off in a random direction, it is reasonable that the pack might follow it. It'd be different if the animal was more solitary, like a tiger. The magic only specifies so far, and it's up to the GM to determine how the rest of the world reacts for the rest of the way.

For instance, let's say I cast disintegrate on one of a group of low level mooks. Do the rest of the mooks run away? Disintegrate doesn't say anything about causing people to flee, but a GM could easily say the rest of the mooks are so spooked by one of their buddies turning to dust that they all flee from the powerful magic immediately.

Quote:
Perspectively, I've been GMing for 34 years. If it's not in the rules, why would a GM do that (outside of hating druids or disliking a particular player)?

I imagine it's more about disliking the tactic than the player. It was all just a hypothetical to let you know that you can't rely on your interpretation of any rule, even in PFS. It will probably work with many GMs, but if a GM really doesn't want you to do something, it's not that hard to make a ruling to keep you from doing something. And the tactics that have the most "cheese" are the tactics that are most likely to be met with counter DM rulings.


Keep in mind that you're bringing an NPC from somewhere to your location and asking them for help. How that plays out is an ikeas store worth of table variation.


Anvil Mithrashield wrote:

"Call animal compels a single animal to come to you. Animals that follow that animal of their own accord act under their own volition; their minds are not affected."

I didn't read where that might happen as a result of a "Call Animal" spell? To my knowledge there is no roll the player makes to succeed in casting the spell, hence no way to fail it. Why would that happen, specifically as it applies to PFS/ organized play?

Perspectively, I've been GMing for 34 years. If it's not in the rules, why would a GM do that (outside of hating druids or disliking a particular player)?

The rules don't say that the local baron will be upset if you fireball a good chunk of their hunting grounds either, but actions have consequences, and casting a spell quite often has consequences that aren't explicitly spelled out in the spell description. Call animal doesn't conjure an animal out of the æther with no effect on the world at large--it compels an already existing animal with its own relationship with the world around it to drop what it's doing and find you. Imagine that there was an analogous call human spell. It would be very possible that the subject would show up with worried or angry family or friends in their wake.

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