Skald's Inspiring Rage and Undead Allies

[Wonderstell]

Inspired Rage (Su):

At 1st level, affected allies gain a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution and a +1 morale bonus on Will saving throws, but also take a –1 penalty to AC. While under the effects of inspired rage, allies other than the skald cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration. At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the song’s bonuses on Will saves increase by 1; the penalty to AC doesn’t change. At 8th and 16th levels, the song’s bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by 2. (Unlike the barbarian’s rage ability, those affected are not fatigued after the song ends.) If an ally has her own rage class ability (such as barbarian’s rage, bloodrager’s bloodrage, or skald’s inspired rage), she may use the Strength, Constitution, and Will saving throw bonuses, as well as AC penalties, based on her own ability and level instead of those from the skald (still suffering no fatigue afterward). However, inspired rage does not allow the ally to activate abilities dependent on other rage class abilities, such as rage powers, blood casting, or bloodrager bloodlines; the ally must activate her own rage class ability in order to use these features.

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Since Inspiring Rage doesn't specify that it is a Mind-Affecting effect like it does with Dirge of Doom, should I assume that Undead creatures can be affected by it? I know they won't get any morale bonuses, but Rage Powers are still on the table.

I'm also aware that there are multiple instances of Undead barbarians, with what seems to be a general rule in the stat block of the the Vampire Savage from Monster Codex, pg 241.

Quote:

Undead Barbarian An undead creature with the ability to enter a rage gains the morale bonuses from rage despite being immune to morale effects. The bonus to Constitution from the rage applies to an undead creature's Charisma instead.

Was this ever confirmed to be the general rule, and if yes, would Inspiring Rage count as "the ability to enter a rage"?

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Undead Type wrote:

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).

Any morale effect is a mind-affecting affect that undead are therefore immune to.

FAQ wrote:

What makes something a fear effect? What about a morale effect?

Fear effects [snip]

Morale effects, unlike fear effects, so far have not had a descriptor or a call-out. Anything that grants a morale bonus is a morale effect. For example, the rage spell grants a morale bonus, so a creature immune to morale effects would be immune to the entire spell, including the –2 penalty to AC.

Hence Inspiring Rage is a morale effect and the undead are immune to the whole thing, Rage Powers and all.

I don't know if the Undead Barbarian rule has been confirmed in general, but I don't think it matters, as I must imagine it hinges on your own ability to enter a rage, not your ally's ability to put you in one. Could be wrong though.

[Dave Justus]

'Undead Barbarian' is a special quality that that creature has, without which it wouldn't be able to gain the bonuses from rage.

You are correct that there are many published undead that need that ability but don't have it (probably due to an oversite) and it certainly makes sense to assume that those creatures do have that special quality. That is a long way from assuming that all undead creatures have that ability built into them.

Technically you are correct than an undead ally could choose to accept the rage (ending up getting nothing but a penalty to AC) and get the rage powers the skald granted. I personally probably wouldn't allow that though if I was GM.

[Dave Justus]

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

Any morale effect is a mind-affecting affect that undead are therefore immune to.

FAQ wrote:

What makes something a fear effect? What about a morale effect?

Fear effects [snip]

Morale effects, unlike fear effects, so far have not had a descriptor or a call-out. Anything that grants a morale bonus is a morale effect. For example, the rage spell grants a morale bonus, so a creature immune to morale effects would be immune to the entire spell, including the –2 penalty to AC.

Hence Inspiring Rage is a morale effect and the undead are immune to the whole thing, Rage Powers and all.

Excellent point on anything granting a morale bonus being a morale effect. That does shut down undead being able to get the rage powers. (absent a special ability, like Undead Barbarian)

[Wonderstell]

Well that's the exact opposite of the answer I wanted, but it is the answer I asked for. Thanks for the quick responses.

Now I'll either have to find a way to make the morale bonuses disappear, or jump through hoops to make it work as a Spell Warrior without Spell Kenning.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Wonderstell wrote:

Now I'll either have to find a way to make the morale bonuses disappear,

Note that Unchained Barbarian rage is not a morale effect and doesn't require a special quality to work for mind-effect-immune types. Maybe take the changes they made there and generate an "Unchained" version of the Skald that inspires the non-morale version of rage instead?

[Wonderstell]

That would be the optimal solution, so if the opportunity presents itself I'd jump on the chance to use Unchained Rage with a Skald.

I'd have trouble convincing a GM to allow me (if they didn't already) with good conscience , since it is for the express purpose of giving me an advantage I would normally never have on the standard Skald.

Maybe I could just play so bad nobody's morale is boosted?