Druid Wild Shape Questions


Rules Questions


I have a few questions on this:

1. At level 8 a druid can change shape 3 times a day for 8 hours. Is this 8 hours total for the day, or can the druid now spend an entire day in animal form? Along with this, can a druid meditate in animal form?

2. Circlet of Speaking: Would wearing this allow a druid in animal form to speak with other people?

3. How common are dinosaurs? For wild shape it says "The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with." How likely is it that a druid would have come across something like an allosaurus or a triceratops?

4. Are there any forms where a druid could be a flying mount for a human character?


1: 3 times for 8 hours each.
2: "This thin, silver circlet allows an animal wearing it to speak" - I believe this refers to a creature of the animal type, which a wild-shaped druid is not.
3: Up to the GM I suppose.
4: Dire Bat?


1. As Matthew states, 3 times per day, up to 8 hours each. If you change back early the remaining time for that transformation is lost.

2. circlet of speaking would not, however, a Ring of Eloquence absolutely lets you talk while wildshaped and it's cheaper then the circlet.

3. This is up to your DM,

4. You'll need to be one size category larger then whoever is riding you meaning they'll need to be small or you'll need to be able to turn into a large creature. So, anything that is large enough and strong enough to carry someone should be fine. This list of mounts is a reasonable place to start but anything that flies and is big enough to carry someone should be fine.


3: Roll knowledge (nature).


1: Covered
2: Circlet note, ring yes.
3. If its a common world you can always look up the history, otherwise yes, confer with your gm. Although being armed with knowledge can be useful, so if you cant point out where dinosaurs arent too uncommon, maybe tie your backstory to an area near that, you have a better arguement then the city dweller going "I WANNA BE A TREX!!!!
4:Lorkailas is incorrect. You do not need to be one size larger. There are penalties for riding a smaller crearure., i.e. squeezing, and even a feat to allow riding the same size creature. As for more common flying mounts, dire bat is your best bet, but the pteranadon,roc and giant eagles are feasible.


"The pteranodon is not itself a dinosaur but rather a large flying reptile that is often found in areas dinosaurs are common. Its flight lacks grace, so it lands on the ground to fight foes it can’t carry away.

A pteranodon has a wingspan of 30 feet but only weighs 40 pounds."

I'm pretty sure a pteranodon can't carry people.

Neither a Roc or giant eagle are available for a druid for use with wild-shape. A Roc because it's too big, and a giant eagle because it's a magical beast.

Evilserran wrote:

1: Covered

2: Circlet note, ring yes.
3. If its a common world you can always look up the history, otherwise yes, confer with your gm. Although being armed with knowledge can be useful, so if you cant point out where dinosaurs arent too uncommon, maybe tie your backstory to an area near that, you have a better arguement then the city dweller going "I WANNA BE A TREX!!!!
4:Lorkailas is incorrect. You do not need to be one size larger. There are penalties for riding a smaller crearure., i.e. squeezing, and even a feat to allow riding the same size creature. As for more common flying mounts, dire bat is your best bet, but the pteranadon,roc and giant eagles are feasible.


MrWhiteFox wrote:

A pteranodon has a wingspan of 30 feet but only weighs 40 pounds."

I'm pretty sure a pteranodon can't carry people.

He could Wildshape into a Quetzalcoatlus .


Evilserran wrote:
3. If its a common world you can always look up the history, otherwise yes, confer with your gm. Although being armed with knowledge can be useful, so if you cant point out where dinosaurs arent too uncommon, maybe tie your backstory to an area near that, you have a better arguement then the city dweller going "I WANNA BE A TREX!!!

There is NO better argument than I WANNA BE A TREX!!! It is a travesty of the rules that a Druid can't be!


I think that as a Mount, the Druid would use his own strength enhanced by Wildshape and whatever else to determine if she could carry a rider. I believe a flying mount can fly with a light load. I believe increasing in Size increases your load modifiers, and I believe that being 4 legged does, too.


The pteranadon does not have anything saying it cannot carry people. The rules for carrying things while flying simply enforce it to be within a light loud for winged flight. A druid, wildshaping into one should easily have the strength to carry another pc. Considering I have done so several times in PFS, I know its a valid choice. As for the Roc, there are ways around that magical beast part, but a vanilla wouldn't you are correct, so my bad on that one.

Large bird here https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/birds/falcon-gia nt-tohc/

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/enchanter-heron/

As mentioned the pteranadon and quetzl, the giant raven is a medium flyer. Basically there are a few choices, ranging from medium to huge.

Grand Lodge

There is loads of debate about players acting as mounts, it can absolutely wreck action economy and unbalance a game.

Always check with your GM before trying such shenanigans. For PFS just assume you are not allowed, as probably half the GMs will say no.


Most Dinosaurs are aviable as choices for Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally, so you could use these (maybe some hired spellcasting) to familiarize yourself with dinosaurs. Another Druid wildshaping into one should also count. I would even expect books with all information necessary for shapeshifting (a sort of instruction manual) to be a thing in a world with Druids.

Grand Lodge

Ah yes, the ole “my PC is a mount” builds.

I once had two brothers play regularly at my old venue for PFS as a Halfling and his adopted half orc brother, and the Halfling would be riding his little brother’s shoulders the whole time. Both using bodyguard shenanigans.

They got upset at me when I ruled that no, you don’t get to have a full attack action after the Half orc moved into position on the same round and yes, you do both take squeezing penalties for being in the same square.

For the record, this was for PFS, too.

Even having a more legitimate form as a mount, like a wild shaped quadruped, can really be frustrating for a GM and even more frustrating for players when they don’t get ruled in their favor. There are plenty of other duo builds in the game, please don’t pick the one that makes me want to rip out my hair.


Syries wrote:

Ah yes, the ole “my PC is a mount” builds.

I once had two brothers play regularly at my old venue for PFS as a Halfling and his adopted half orc brother, and the Halfling would be riding his little brother’s shoulders the whole time. Both using bodyguard shenanigans.

They got upset at me when I ruled that no, you don’t get to have a full attack action after the Half orc moved into position on the same round and yes, you do both take squeezing penalties for being in the same square.

For the record, this was for PFS, too.

Even having a more legitimate form as a mount, like a wild shaped quadruped, can really be frustrating for a GM and even more frustrating for players when they don’t get ruled in their favor. There are plenty of other duo builds in the game, please don’t pick the one that makes me want to rip out my hair.

Good to know that Cavaliers get an automatic -4 to attack and AC whenever they ride their mounts. Great ruling. /s

Grand Lodge

willuwontu wrote:
Syries wrote:

Ah yes, the ole “my PC is a mount” builds.

I once had two brothers play regularly at my old venue for PFS as a Halfling and his adopted half orc brother, and the Halfling would be riding his little brother’s shoulders the whole time. Both using bodyguard shenanigans.

They got upset at me when I ruled that no, you don’t get to have a full attack action after the Half orc moved into position on the same round and yes, you do both take squeezing penalties for being in the same square.

For the record, this was for PFS, too.

Even having a more legitimate form as a mount, like a wild shaped quadruped, can really be frustrating for a GM and even more frustrating for players when they don’t get ruled in their favor. There are plenty of other duo builds in the game, please don’t pick the one that makes me want to rip out my hair.

Good to know that Cavaliers get an automatic -4 to attack and AC whenever they ride their mounts. Great ruling. /s

There is a big difference between a humanoid PC that uses the "sharing a square" rules than having a same-PC controlled creature that is designed to be an actual mount

I wouldn't rule them as squeezing if they were in a form that was actually suitable for a mount, for example.

Also, I don't care if people don't like my ruling on using other PCs as a mount (particularly when they're in humanoid form). It's a headache, and players seem to always think they get extra actions out of it because of it.


Syries wrote:

There is a big difference between a humanoid PC that uses the "sharing a square" rules than having a same-PC controlled creature that is designed to be an actual mount

I wouldn't rule them as squeezing if they were in a form that was actually suitable for a mount, for example.

Also, I don't care if people don't like my ruling on using other PCs as a mount (particularly when they're in humanoid form). It's a headache, and players seem to always think they get extra actions out of it because of it.

There is no difference in rules as far as Pathfinder has laid out.

In this case, I'd tell them to choose one of their initiatives to act on, they act together. If the player acting as the mount wanted to charge, I'd point out the Mounted Charge FAQ and say it uses both of their full round actions as they are now both charging.


Finding rules to hamper riding a PC aren't hard to find. For instance, "Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount." CRB pg. 201, and since Handle Animal only applies to animals, a PC can't possibly "possess combat training" as the handle animal rules describe it. Have fun with your "mount"!


Derklord wrote:
Finding rules to hamper riding a PC aren't hard to find. For instance, "Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount." CRB pg. 201, and since Handle Animal only applies to animals, a PC can't possibly "possess combat training" as the handle animal rules describe it. Have fun with your "mount"!

That's pretty funny. You would think if anybody were combat trained, it would be a PC adventurer, but the rules mean trained as a war mount. So unless, the PC wanted to spend weeks being broken by a trainer, and I don't know if there is even provision for that in the rules.

It seems very reasonable to impose a Ride Check that tries on a PC that wants to ride another PC like a pony.


You have to make a Ride check (as a move action) to control the mount. But what if you don't want to control the mount?


Matthew Downie wrote:
You have to make a Ride check (as a move action) to control the mount. But what if you don't want to control the mount?

I guess you don't control the animal when the animal is a Wildshaped Druid. You ask her to do stuff, and she will act as your ally. There are a lot of things that it's sensible to need a Ride Check for, even if your mount were a PC.

Ride wrote:
Stay in Saddle... Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount... Cover... Soft Fall... Fast Mount or Dismount

Using a fellow PC as cover seems pretty jerky. But it seems very likely that your Wildshaped Druid is very likely to make sudden movements that might throw an untrained rider: a Druid lacks the training of a wartrained mount.

It also occurs to me that there might be times in the heat of battle when the rider and Druid might not be able to talk to each other normally. If the mount were a wartrained animal, the rider would use the Ride Skill to Guide with Knees. But to communicate with a Wildshaped Druid nonverbally, I guess they would use the Convey Secret Message application of the Bluff Skill. I guess that would be a sensible thing for a Druidzilla to be able to do anyway.


Matthew Downie wrote:
You have to make a Ride check (as a move action) to control the mount. But what if you don't want to control the mount?

You must, there is no choice.

And I just realized that I posted the middle part twice instead of the ending of that paragraph. The beginning of the whole section is also interesting, so here's the entire beginning of the mounted combat rules:

"Mounted Combat
These rules cover being mounted on a horse in combat but can also be applied to more unusual steeds, such as a griffon or dragon.
Mounts in Combat: Horses, ponies, and riding dogs can serve readily as combat steeds. Mounts that do not possess combat training (see the Handle Animal skill) are frightened by combat. If you don’t dismount, you must make a DC 20 Ride check each round as a move action to control such a mount. If you succeed, you can perform a standard action after the move action. If you fail, the move action becomes a full-round action, and you can’t do anything else until your next turn.
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move." CRB pg. 201

The rules explicitly mention mounts with above-animal intelligence (griffons have int 5, dragons usually more) in the preface, and yet they don't make an exception for those in the very first part of these rules.


OK, what if I'm riding my pet paladin? The context suggests that the reason you need to take a move action to try to control the paladin is because he's frightened by combat, but he's immune to fear...

Or, what if I'm handcuffed to a PC ally and being dragged along automatically whenever he moves. Does that get me into position without me having to take a move action?


Yes, according to the rules, you sitting on him scares the Paladin so much that it even overrides his immunity against fear.

Matthew Downie wrote:
what if I'm handcuffed to a PC ally and being dragged along automatically whenever he moves. Does that get me into position without me having to take a move action?

Well, you aren't riding anyone, so the mounted combat rules don't apply.

Grand Lodge

You’re either riding a character as a mount, in which case you must follow ALL of the mounted combat rules (including the stuff Derklord pointed out) or you’re not sharing a square and one of the two must perform a drag combat maneuver to the other character each round to have them move at the same time.

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