“Use Your ‘x’ level instead of bab


Rules Questions


So for some abilities in pathfinder for classes below full-BAB, you can use your class level in place of your BAB.. if you are multi-classed does this translate to “class level instead of BAB gained from levels in that class”? Or is my +13 BAB overruled by my 1 monk level?


“For the purpose of these attacks, the monk’s base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. ”. And his BAB from other classes is equal to his BAB from those other classes.


Lelomenia wrote:
“For the purpose of these attacks, the monk’s base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. ”. And his BAB from other classes is equal to his BAB from those other classes.

I’m looking at the Maneuver Master Archetype which replaces flurry of blows with a similar ability that states “The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.”

My assumption is that it still applies normally, but also I’m wondering for other class abilities when it’s not stated


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From here:

Core Rulebook -> Prestige Classes -> Definition of Terms wrote:

Character Level: The total level of the character, which is the sum of all class levels held by that character.

Class Level: The level of a character in a particular class. For a character with levels in only one class, class level and character level are the same.

Edit: In your specific (and admittedly slightly confusing) situation, a monk with the maneuver master archetype uses their levels in monk to determine their effective base attack bonus from those monk levels. The monk still adds their base attack bonus from other class levels as well, but that's because base attack bonus is always calculated using contributions from all of a character's class levels (and racial hit dice, if any).

TL;DR: A fighter 8/maneuver master 8 has an effective BAB of +16 when using flurry of maneuvers.

Edit the second: Ohhh, I see what you mean. The maneuver master's version of that text doesn't say "from his monk levels":

Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex) wrote:
The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.

RAW, that means other classes' levels won't contribute to the monk's effective base attack bonus during a flurry of maneuvers. I doubt that was intentional, and I'd never run it that way.


Thanks for the in-depth reply, I agree that I think it’s intention is for monk levels only... I have a group that occasionally reads a very restrictive, if not brain-dead, interpretation of the rules... let’s see what the GM says!


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Flurry of Blows originally had the exact same issue, which they fixed first in this FAQ and then by changing the text for the fifth printing of the CRB. It's not RAW for maneuver master, but it might help you make a case.

To be honest, anyone insisting on the broken version is a jerk, and I would think twice about playing with such people.


Derklord wrote:

Flurry of Blows originally had the exact same issue, which they fixed first in this FAQ and then by changing the text for the fifth printing of the CRB. It's not RAW for maneuver master, but it might help you make a case.

To be honest, anyone insisting on the broken version is a jerk, and I would think twice about playing with such people.

They sometimes have a problem when a character build works too well for a given campaign/consistent foe... from day 1 I said my character's entire goal is to become the best 1v1 martial combatant he can be.... I went trip-build swashbuckler and we're almost exclusively fighting medium humanoids. Dipping into monk essentially gives me a free trip attempt at full bab -2, so I no longer have to waste my full bab attack. With this build and my fortuitous weapon, I can trip, Aoo, 2nd Aoo, full bab attack, iterative attack.

I can certainly imagine them trying to nerf it...


Derklord wrote:

Flurry of Blows originally had the exact same issue, which they fixed first in this FAQ and then by changing the text for the fifth printing of the CRB. It's not RAW for maneuver master, but it might help you make a case.

To be honest, anyone insisting on the broken version is a jerk, and I would think twice about playing with such people.

Nice find! I've missed some of the historical context of this issue, and that reinforces my own gut reaction on the issue.

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