Can Bane weapons bypass special material DR?


Rules Questions


For example, if I were to have a +1 Feybane weapon made of ordinary materials, would the additional +2 enhancement bonus against fey make the weapon +3 for the purpose of overcoming that same fey creature's DR versus cold iron?

Grand Lodge

I believe so. Same goes with the furious enchantment.
You're adding an enchantment bonus to a weapon, and the rules state a +3 enchanted weapon bypasses cold iron and silver DR.
I haven't seen any rules to the contrary.


I don't know where this ruling comes from or if it's official or just a common house rule. But maybe someone does.

I've seen it mentioned in a few places that the bane needs to be permanent. If you are adding fey bane to your weapon through inquisitor's bane ability, an occultist's legacy weapon, or a fighter's warrior spirit, then it doesn't aid in penetrating DR. If the weapon has bane permanently, then it does.

Grand Lodge

I've never heard that before. Bane is bane, it wouldn't matter if it's temporary or permanent.

Temporary enhancements from the magus arcana can help make a magic weapon bypass DR, would you suggest that the same rules apply to that as well because it's temporary?


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ErichAD wrote:

I don't know where this ruling comes from or if it's official or just a common house rule. But maybe someone does.

I've seen it mentioned in a few places that the bane needs to be permanent. If you are adding fey bane to your weapon through inquisitor's bane ability, an occultist's legacy weapon, or a fighter's warrior spirit, then it doesn't aid in penetrating DR. If the weapon has bane permanently, then it does.

Whatever it is, it's wrong, the enhancement bonus increase needs to call out that it doesnt count for overcoming certain types of DR (like greater magic weapon), or else it does.


Since it's come up, for clarity I am referring specifically to the permanent Bane magic weapon special ability.


The only reference to whether or not temporary v. permanent matters is this quote from almost a decade ago.

As for the additional +2 enhancement bonus that is granted to bane targets, that's a curious bit of complexity introduced by allowing high enhancement bonuses to penetrate DR (and yet another reason I'm personally not a big fan of letting high enhancement bonuses penetrate DR, even if it IS a popular rule). It's not a temporary increase to the enhancement bonus, after all, since it's ALWAYS in effect against those foes. I would say that the increase to the enhancement bonus WOULD allow the bane weapon to penetrate additional DR as if it were a higher enhancement bonus.

This implies that temporary is different somehow in regards to DR penetration, but it doesn't reference a rule written anywhere in the books, and I don't know if this is considered official. The quote also says that bane normally would count though, so you also have a reference for it working in the specific case of a permanent bane item.

I agree bane, even temporary bane is probably supposed to work, but there is a dissenting opinion out there that could appear at your table.


James Jacobs is very specifically not one of the rules people.

Great controversies that arose from people quoting him is one of the reasons he never comments on the rules anymore, and hasn't in years.

Now if you want lore or setting information, he is very qualified to clarify and elaborate on that topic.


This is answered in the mythic FAQ
https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gl#v5748eaic9r5f

Quote:


DR/Epic: How do the new rules for overcoming DR/epic (page 7) interact with weapon special abilities that have variable enhancement bonuses, such as bane and furious?
Essentially, there are now two ways to overcome DR/epic with magic weapons.

The first way is presented in the Universal Monster Rules in the Bestiary: You can use a weapon that has an actual enhancement bonus of +6 or higher. Currently the Pathfinder RPG has no weapons with a permanent +6 or higher enhancement bonus (though you can temporarily achieve a +6 or higher enhancement bonus with certain magical or class abilities).

The second way is presented in Mythic Adventures: You can use a weapon that has a total "plus-equivalent" of +6 or higher. For example, a +1 vorpal longsword and a +2 flaming frost shock keen longsword both are +6-equivalent magic weapons.

A weapon with a conditional or variable enhancement bonus, such as bane or furious, gets the best of both options. As a baseline, it include the plus-equivalences for its enhancement bonuses and special abilities; when the conditional or variable enhancement bonuses activate, it adds those to its total as well.

For example, a +3 undead-bane longsword is a +4-equivalent weapon, which on its own is not enough to overcome DR/epic. When used against an undead creature, its enhancement bonus increases by an additional +2, making it effectively a +6-equivalent weapon (+3 baseline enhancement bonus, +1-equivalent from bane, +2 conditional enhancement bonus against undead from bane) and therefore able to overcome that undead creature's DR/epic. (Another way of looking at it is when bane is active, you add its conditional +2 enhancement bonus to the weapon's normal +4-equivalent bonus, temporarily giving you a +6-equivalent weapon).


I checked back on this at the right time. Much thanks!


Lost In Limbo wrote:

James Jacobs is very specifically not one of the rules people.

Great controversies that arose from people quoting him is one of the reasons he never comments on the rules anymore, and hasn't in years.

Now if you want lore or setting information, he is very qualified to clarify and elaborate on that topic.

Thanks for clearing that up. I'll try to keep that in mind in the future.

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