Should you just assume said creatures have the "inherint +5" bonus to each ability score built into their stats? I would assume all of them would unless they just became a demon lord (or whatever) yesterday since it would take only 30 days/wishes to get +5 to all six ability scores.
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The way I read it, they'd only be able to get a +1 inherent bonus, since they can only cast it once per day, and getting higher than a +1 requires that they be cast in immediate succession. It also calls out that inherent bonuses to a particular score do not stack.
- Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three wishes for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
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I guess if you had a group of 5 of them they could get higher.
What creature(s) have Wish 1/day?
Most demon lords/ empyreal lords/great old ones etc. Most can even cast mythic wish if the use mythic power.
I would assume that the published stats are the stats that the creature has.
"I wish that I was stronger . . . starting right after I cast wish tomorrow morning."
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I would assume that the published stats are the stats that the creature has.
This. We're talking about (nigh) timeless entities of (nigh) unfathomable power. Pretty sure they've already thought about the whole "oh yeah, I can wish my stats higher" thing.
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I would assume that the published stats are the stats that the creature has.This. We're talking about (nigh) timeless entities of (nigh) unfathomable power. Pretty sure they've already thought about the whole "oh yeah, I can wish my stats higher" thing.
Ditto. I try to assume that the setting and it's elements exist as they do *because* of the options available, not despite them. (So desert realms are as inhabitable / populated as they are *because* of the availability of spells like purify food & drink and create water, and the existence of those spells wouldn't change anything, since they've been around and in regular use for millenia. Similarly, Efreeti have been able to grant wishes for ages, so there's nothing a bunch of Efreeti wishes can do to change their stats, because they got that out of their systems when they were still in fireproof diapers.)
That said, I kind of hate monsters having abilities that players shouldn't have, because there are too many ways for them to get exploited and turn into game-wreckers, ranging from versions of change shape that grant said abilities, mind-controlling said monsters, taking one as a cohort, playing (or becoming) such a beastie, or even just capping out Diplomacy and bribing one to wreck the game and it's assumptions with it's shadowpocalypse create infinite spawn ability or grant 3 wishes / day or feed or split or get +eleventy billion Con by being hit by lightning or whatever.
D&Ds long history of this nonsense (monsters having game-wrecking abilities that no PC should have, and yet refusing to use them for specious meta-game reasons) is why I cringe whenever I see a game edition boasting of having monsters using different rules than PCs.
For most creatures that do have wish sla have it for the express reason to grant wishes to mortals, the idea of granting their own wishes is anathema to them, what they desire to to corrupt a soul by getting YOU to make a wish. You don't have to wreck the game to get them to give you a wish, they would love to do it, you just don't want it. It doesn't matter that they can cast Wish, it's a basic misunderstanding of what these creatures are to assume they would use it for their own devices.
The Djinn has that as a special limitation:
1/day—grant up to 3 wishes (to non-genies only)
(Though I don't see any evidence that making such a wish corrupts your soul.)
Other beings do not have the same restriction.
The Djinn has that as a special limitation:
1/day—grant up to 3 wishes (to non-genies only)(Though I don't see any evidence that making such a wish corrupts your soul.)
Other beings do not have the same restriction.
Of the two Genies with Wish, one is LE (Efreeti) and the other is CN (Marid), not necessarily alignments you want casting ultra-powerful spells that literally warp the fabric of existence. The Genie "nobles" that also get wish require you to "capture" them first. I would be reticent to ask for wishes from a ultra-powerful creature, that is noble member of it's race, that I have captured and enslaved for my benefit.
The Spirit of Abadon is a Demigod. Pazuzu also has wish 1/day. A demigod casting wish is not game breaking as it is literally divine intervention.
The only other monsters that come to mind that has wish sla is a Glabrezu and a Pit Fiend (once per month and year respectively). I don't think I need to go into the pitfalls of making a wish on a demon or devil?
The Djinn has that as a special limitation:
1/day—grant up to 3 wishes (to non-genies only)(Though I don't see any evidence that making such a wish corrupts your soul.)
Other beings do not have the same restriction.Of the two Genies with Wish, one is LE (Efreeti) and the other is CN (Marid), not necessarily alignments you want casting ultra-powerful spells that literally warp the fabric of existence. The Genie "nobles" that also get wish require you to "capture" them first. I would be reticent to ask for wishes from a ultra-powerful creature, that is noble member of it's race, that I have captured and enslaved for my benefit.
The Spirit of Abadon is a Demigod. Pazuzu also has wish 1/day. A demigod casting wish is not game breaking as it is literally divine intervention.
The only other monsters that come to mind that has wish sla is a Glabrezu and a Pit Fiend (once per month and year respectively). I don't think I need to go into the pitfalls of making a wish on a demon or devil?
Pit fiends can cast wish on themselves. I imagine they would have all the bonuses as well since it would only take 6 years/wishes (considering it takes hundreds or even thousands of years to become a pit fiend to begin with I would imagine 6 years is like a weekend from their point of view.)
The list of creatures with wish with a SLA is *VERY* limited. In the Bestiary, only the following 7 creatures can do so:
Angel, Solar: 1/day
Demon, Glabrezu: 1/month (granted to a mortal humanoid only)
Devil, Pit Fiend: 1/year
Genie, Djinni (noble only): grant 3 wishes to any nongenie who captures them
Genie, Efreeti: 1/day (grant up to 3 wishes to nongenies only)
Genie, Marid: 1/year (grant 1 wish to nongenies only)
Genie, Shaitan (noble only): grant 3 wishes to any nongenie who captures them
Solars and pit fiends are the only ones without limits on how they can use them, but they are only one step down from demigods. Genies and glabrezus specifically can't use wish on themselves or others of their kind.
The next few Bestiaries are even shorter on creatures who can cast wish as a SLA. Pretty much the only one from volumes 2-4 [the ones I own in searchable PDF] who isn't already a demigod (or practically one) is the contract devil.
Bestiary 2:
Aeon, Pleroma: 1/day
Bestiary 3:
Devil, Contract: infernal contract ability can grant wishes
Div, Akvan (prince only): 3/day
Bestiary 4:
Demon Lord, Pazuzu: 1/day (mythic within his own domain)
Great Old One, Cthulhu: 1/day (mythic)
Great Old One, Hastur: 1/day (mythic; only to other creatures, only once per creature)
Titan, Fomorian: 1/day
I would say that the simplest ruling is that any creature who can cast wish for their own benefit has already done so to the full extent of their abilities, and all such changes are already included in their stat blocks.
You would certainly expect a demon lord, archdevil, or other unique noble fiend to have done so at the earliest opportunity. And I can't see any of them being inclined to work together to empower a peer and potential rival beyond that limit.
as for trying to link the wishes together such as noted above:
"I wish that I was stronger . . . starting right after I cast wish tomorrow morning."
it won't work as the spells must be CAST one after the other, not start working one after the other. all you'll get from this is 2X +1 inherent bonus that won't stack with itself.
a better way would be crafting a spell trigger\completion wish items and using 5 of them one after the other.
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D&Ds long history of this nonsense (monsters having game-wrecking abilities that no PC should have, and yet refusing to use them for specious meta-game reasons) is why I cringe whenever I see a game edition boasting of having monsters using different rules than PCs.
I mean, they always do though. There's never been an edition of D&D where monsters followed the exact same rules as PCs, there's just been some that were stricter on how the chassis was assembled. There are more monster abilities in PF1, for example, that are not appropriate for player use than there are monster abilities that would be fine transferred to PCs as-written, and I can't really think of any version of the game or its inheritors to-date where that hasn't been the case.
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To craft it you're going to need wish as a 1/day option, or else take the penalty for not having the spell.
well not really.
you can take a break while crafting, you just can't start crafting anything else while doing so. so basically even them pit fiends with 1/month wish can just continue crafting once a month for 1 day's worth of crafting.(the marid\shaitan etc who can only give mortals wishes would probably have it harder of course)
In addition to the all the above most of which sum up as "it is already accounted for in their stats", they are all NPC creatures. They exist and do what they need to do for the campaign and its story at the whim of the DM. If you need a Solar with effectively +10 ability scores across the board it just happens without need to worrying about whether they used wish or miracle or an artifact or ... All hail the DM! Explaining how is more of a thought excercise and perhaps a control on getting so far out of line with "RAW" that your Solar is effectively a different DM created creature than a Solar who used a lot of wishes.+10? Aren't inherent bonuses limited to +5?
Yes, but the point is that as the GM you can create creatures with vastly different stats without worrying about "How" they got there.
If you want to have "Pazuzu +10" in your game you just do it, you don't have to justify it at all. You could make a Goblin with +100 to all stats and use it as a high(ish) level boss.
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You could make a Goblin with +100 to all stats and use it as a high(ish) level boss.
...but you probably shouldn't.
Player 1: "58 to hit."GM: "You miss."
Player 2: "That goblin's AC is off the charts! I'll try something else. Hold Person! Give me a Will save."
GM: "Does a 68 pass?"
You could make a Goblin with +100 to all stats and use it as a high(ish) level boss....but you probably shouldn't.
Player 1: "58 to hit."
GM: "You miss."
Player 2: "That goblin's AC is off the charts! I'll try something else. Hold Person! Give me a Will save."
GM: "Does a 68 pass?"
Yeah that GOBLIN will have 66 AC and a +49 to his will-save, but he'll only have 56hp. One good hit from a mid-level martial and it's over for the little green guy. He has a +52 to hit, but only has 1 attack per round.
I think it'd make for an interesting but not-that-impactful encounter.
Not all spells give a save and he doesn't have a lot of hp.
True. He'll normally do about 50 damage per round, even if he does nothing but throw pebbles at the PCs, but a Sorcerer with Mirror Image up could probably win.
But this encounter is so weird that the party probably wouldn't guess that the goblin had low HP.
Player 1: "Sure, he's more than twice as strong as the Tarrasque, but maybe if we hit him with a few magic missiles he'll just drop dead?"
Player 2: "That's ridiculous. Run away!"
Meh, save for half spells would finish him right fast, since he's got no evasion.
Just use power word kill if he only has 56 hp.