Orc Goliath Druid PFS legal 20th level build out advice needed


Advice

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Grand Lodge

rorek55 wrote:
Slyme wrote:
If you want to play godmode
I find this immensely humorous of being said about a martial character.

Thankfully PFS avoids a lot of the insane caster shenanigans simply by ending most of the adventures before casters get to that level. Magus' with their 15-20 crit range intensified maximized empowered quickened shocking grasp antics are always fun to deal with though.

I still hold the opinion that the core druid, with no archetypes at all is the most powerful class in the game if you understand their spell list.


rorek55 wrote:
Slyme wrote:
If you want to play godmode

I find this immensely humorous of being said about a martial character.

As for the furious finish reading... RAW you will be fatigued. Full stop. It doesn't matter if you are immune, immunities are more general than this feat, which states that, no matter what other abilities you have, you are still fatigued.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/snake/snake-vipe r/

The viper as written reads; "Melee bite +5 (1d2–2 plus poison)", your argument is: because of RAW a Druid's 9th level venom immunity is pointless.

It's not that the character is "NOT" fatigued, the cord gives an alternative to what "fatigued is"

Fatigued
A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

The cord's text reads; "ANY effect which would cause the wearer to become fatigued deals an additional 1d6 points of nonlethal damage INSTEAD.

Just the way games are designed, the feat 99% of the time is designed first then the magical item providing the combo.

Building a character with synergies and combos is not God-mode, it's how a well prepared player builds a [u]hero[/]! As a very seasoned GM over countless RPGs, I can always find a players "Achilles' Heel" without resorting to an Arrow of Slaying, a Tarrasque, or a dragon falling from the sky.


Slyme wrote:
rorek55 wrote:
Slyme wrote:
If you want to play godmode
I find this immensely humorous of being said about a martial character.

Thankfully PFS avoids a lot of the insane caster shenanigans simply by ending most of the adventures before casters get to that level. Magus' with their 15-20 crit range intensified maximized empowered quickened shocking grasp antics are always fun to deal with though.

I still hold the opinion that the core druid, with no archetypes at all is the most powerful class in the game if you understand their spell list.

I agree, I think a base druid is one of the most powerful characters in Pathfinder! I can't remember EVER having anyone play a druid at my table. This is my first time to seriously dive into a build in Pathfinder. The wording on a druids spells and abilities is confusing. I've read 2 dozen (incomplete) druid handbooks trying to figure this stuff out (have yet to see a complete one). As soon as I think I finally have a grasp on it, I find out I was supposed to know these two abilities don't stack because they effect the [u]exact[/u] ____ in the same way (though you could never tell that from reading the RaW). It has been incredibly frustrating.


This is where the character is currently, I likely will change the curve blade to the fauchard with polearm tactics and remove both winter and entangling strike. But, currently this is the build:

Shade Wyrmsbane
Male half-elf druid (goliath druid) 16/fighter (titan fighter) 4 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Giant Hunter's Handbook 20, 21)
CN Huge humanoid (elf, human)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +20
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 26, touch 6, flat-footed 26 (+9 armor, +11 natural, -2 size, -2 untyped penalty)
hp 271 (20 HD; 16d8+4d10+164); regeneration 5 (acid or fire)
Fort +22, Ref +6, Will +17 (+1 vs. fear); +4 vs. spell-like and supernatural abilities of giants
Defensive Abilities rock catching; DR 10/adamantine (100 points), 5/piercing
Weaknesses vulnerability to sonic
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 50 ft. (40 ft. in armor)
Melee (L) +1 impact keen elven curve blade +20 (24d8+60/15-20) or
. . (L) +1 impact keen falchion +24 (24d6+60/15-20) or
. . (L) quarterstaff +23 (12d6+59) or
. . bite +21 (8d10+44), 2 claws +21 (8d6+44)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks destructive smite (+8, 7/day), rend (2 claws, 8d8+26), rock throwing (120 ft.), wild shape 7/day
Druid (Goliath Druid) Spells Prepared (CL 16th; concentration +20)
. . 8th—earthquake[D], reverse gravity, whirlwind (DC 22)
. . 7th—changestaff, creeping doom (DC 21), disintegrate[D] (DC 21), heal
. . 6th—fire seeds, liveoak, moonstruck[D,APG] (DC 20), tar pool[UC] (DC 20)
. . 5th—baleful polymorph (DC 19), call lightning storm (DC 19), shout[D] (DC 19), stoneskin, wall of thorns
. . 4th—dispel magic, echolocation[UM], flame strike (DC 18), freedom of movement, ice storm, inflict critical wounds[D] (DC 18)
. . 3rd—call lightning (DC 17), rage[D], resinous skin[UC], spike growth (DC 17), thorny entanglement[ACG] (DC 17), greater thunderstomp[ACG]
. . 2nd—animal purpose training[ACG], barkskin, bull's strength[D], fog cloud, resist energy, wartrain mount[UM]
. . 1st—call animal[APG], charm animal (DC 15), frostbite[UM], longstrider, obscuring mist, true strike[D]
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, flare (DC 14), guidance, know direction
. . D Domain spell; Domain Destruction (Rage domain[APG] subdomain)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 34, Dex 10, Con 26, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 9
Base Atk +16; CMB +25 (+27 grapple); CMD 38 (42 vs. disarm)
Feats Believer's Boon[ACG], Devastating Strike[UC], Furious Finish[UC], Furious Focus[APG], Grasping Strike[ACG], Greater Vital Strike, Improved Devastating Strike[UC], Improved Vital Strike, Power Attack, Raging Brutality[UC], Vital Strike, Winter's Strike[ACG]
Traits gifted adept, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics -5 (-1 to jump), Bluff +10, Climb +11, Diplomacy +19, Fly -5, Handle Animal +19, Heal +10, Intimidate +17, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (engineering) +5, Knowledge (geography) +5, Knowledge (local) +5, Knowledge (nature) +9, Perception +20, Profession (merchant) +14, Ride -1, Spellcraft +15, Survival +10, Swim +11
Languages Common, Druidic, Elven, Giant
SQ elf blood, elf druid, face nature's might, giant weapon wielder, nature bond (Rage domain[APG]), primal bond, primal empathy, primal size, primal summons, rage, rage powers (guarded stance +3, knockdown[APG]), timeless body, trackless step, wild empathy +15, wild shape (giant), woodland stride
Other Gear dragonhide full plate, +1 impact keen elven curve blade, +1 impact keen falchion, quarterstaff, cord of stubborn resolve[UE], good berries 128 (0.5 lb), 50 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
+5 natural armor in Wild Shape Add +1/3 to the druid’s natural armor bonus when using wild shape.
Believer's Boon Domain (Conversion Inquisition) Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers: You are a powerful persuader. A honeyed tongue empowered by divine argumentation sways the indifferent and adversarial to your side.
Damage Reduction (10/adamantine [100 points]) You have Damage Reduction against all except Adamantine attacks.
Damage Reduction (5/piercing) You have Damage Reduction against all except Piercing attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Destructive Smite +8 (7/day) (Su) Make a melee attack with morale bonus to damage.
Devastating Strike Deal extra damage when using Vital Strike bonus
Druid (Goliath Druid) Domain (Rage) Note: The effective level for the barbarian rage powers is currently equal to the cleric level. The rule that they should only count their effective barbarian level as 1/2 their cleric level has not been implemented yet.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Face Nature's Might (Ex) +4 to saves vs. spell-like and supernatural abilities of giants.
Furious Finish Deal maximum damage and end your rage
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Giant Weapon Wielder (Ex) Can wield 2 handed weapons of 1 size larger, at extra -2 penalty.
Grasping Strike (5/day, DC 24) When using VItal Strike, cause opp to be entangled for 1 min (Ref negates).
Guarded Stance +3 (8 rounds) (Ex) Gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC vs. melee attacks while raging.
Improved Devastating Strike Gain bonus on rolls to confirm critical hits
Knockdown (1/rage) (Ex) 1/rage, make a Trip maneuver without AoO
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Power Attack -5/+18 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Primal Bond (Ex) Can affect dinosaur/megafauna animal companion with enlarge person.
Primal Empathy (Ex) Your wild empathy only functions on creatures of size Large or lager.
Primal Size You can spontaneously cast enlarge person using a 1st level or higher spell slot.
Primal Summons Summon nature's ally lists include new options.
Rage (16 rounds/day) (Su) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Brutality (+8) Add Constitution bonus on damage rolls
Regeneration 5 (acid or fire) Heal HP quickly and cannot die.
Rock Catching (Ex) You can catch rocks that are thrown at you with a successful Reflex save.
Rock Throwing (120 ft.) (Ex) You can throw big rocks. They hurt.
Timeless Body (Middle Age) (Ex) You no longer take ability score penalties from aging.
Trackless Step (Ex) You do not leave a trail as you move through natural surroundings.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Vulnerability to Sonic You are vulnerable (+50% damage) to Sonic damage.
Wild Empathy +15 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Wild Shape (16 hours, 7/day) (Su) Shapeshift into a different creature one or more times per day.
Wild Shape (Giant Form II) (Mountain Troll) (Su) As a standard action, take humanoid (giant) form.
Winter's Strike (5/day, DC 24) When using Vital Strike opp must make Fort save or become fatigued for 4 rds.
Woodland Stride (Ex) Move through undergrowth at normal speed.

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Silver Crusade

Slyme wrote:
rorek55 wrote:
Slyme wrote:
If you want to play godmode
I find this immensely humorous of being said about a martial character.

Thankfully PFS avoids a lot of the insane caster shenanigans simply by ending most of the adventures before casters get to that level. Magus' with their 15-20 crit range intensified maximized empowered quickened shocking grasp antics are always fun to deal with though.

I still hold the opinion that the core druid, with no archetypes at all is the most powerful class in the game if you understand their spell list.

my only disagreement with that is the menhir savant archetype. You get a bunch of free +1 CL per day, a great Detect ability, free teleport basically, and ethereal jaunt, the only thing you really lose is the 1000 faces ability.

That, and maybe the new herbalist druid bond, you just get X free potions per day, at your CL, for just about any spell you want haha.

source severance alone ruins a wizards day.

Druid has always been one of my "go to" classes for pure versatility and power. That said, I rarely play them, as they usually just don't mesh well with most campaign settings.

Silver Crusade

Anvil Mithrashield wrote:
rorek55 wrote:
Slyme wrote:
If you want to play godmode

I find this immensely humorous of being said about a martial character.

As for the furious finish reading... RAW you will be fatigued. Full stop. It doesn't matter if you are immune, immunities are more general than this feat, which states that, no matter what other abilities you have, you are still fatigued.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/snake/snake-vipe r/

The viper as written reads; "Melee bite +5 (1d2–2 plus poison)", your argument is: because of RAW a Druid's 9th level venom immunity is pointless.

It's not that the character is "NOT" fatigued, the cord gives an alternative to what "fatigued is"

Fatigued
A fatigued character can neither run nor charge and takes a –2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity. Doing anything that would normally cause fatigue causes the fatigued character to become exhausted. After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued.

The cord's text reads; "ANY effect which would cause the wearer to become fatigued deals an additional 1d6 points of nonlethal damage INSTEAD.

Just the way games are designed, the feat 99% of the time is designed first then the magical item providing the combo.

Building a character with synergies and combos is not God-mode, it's how a well prepared player builds a [u]hero[/]! As a very seasoned GM over countless RPGs, I can always find a players "Achilles' Heel" without resorting to an Arrow of Slaying, a Tarrasque, or a dragon falling from the sky.

except the text of the feat states "..., and you are fatigued (even if you would not normally be)."

have that magic item (or any class/racial ability) keeps you from being fatigued normally. the feats states you would be anyway. hell, undead and constructs that use this feat would be effected and become fatigued

your ability to find an achilles heel is moot here, make them exhausted, congrats, you are useless.

instead is the key word here, its removing the fatigued condition and replacing it with 1d6 NL. the feat supersedes that and says "no, you actually are fatigued"

Silver Crusade

Actually, I will rescind at least part of my former statement, as while this is not an official ruling on an FAQ, JJ usually has the right idea on intent with the design team.

James Jacob post regarding the feat.

Apparently, immunity negates the last part, so taking a level of oracle for fatigue immunity still works with it.

However, it still doesn't cover the cords interaction, but, assuming JJ was correct, would lend credibility to the idea that cords also nullify the ending part of the feat.


@rorek55 thanks for taking the time to look that up and thanks again for sharing!


I just ran into a real problem trying to figure out the animal system in PFS.

Is Gifted Adept "Call Animal" legal according to PFS?

Example:
Lvl 2 character
Nature Check: "are there any Dire Wolves in this area (or similarly large(r) creatures)(Primal Empathy)?
DM: yes there are.
"Call Animal" for CR3 animal
Attempt "Wild Empathy" (Primal Empathy) check to move from "Indifferent" (Call Animal) to "Friendly". DC 15 vs roll +8 Diplomacy (at 2nd level).
If fail, spell; "Charm Monster"
"War Trained Mount"/ "Animal Purpose Training"

I am likely going to repeat this in the rules forum.

There is a campaign rule embedded in the PFS Additional Resources page saying that, "A PC can only purchase an animal, mount, or similar creature if its Challenge Rating is lower than that character's level; creatures with a Challenge Rating of 1 or lower are exempt from this restriction, as are horses."

Does that effect this trick?


lemeres wrote:

When I say reach build, I mean taking the feat set usually used by polearm users that focus on getting AoOs from enemies crossing their threatened area. Given the fact that your giant form has 15' of natural reach, you threaten a wide enough area to pull off the same tricks no matter what weapon you use. Additionally, with the sheer damage of your one big hit, you can seriously punish enemies that try to get next to you or get around you to hit squishier party members. You can be a circle of pain 45' wide (15' on each side, and your 15' wide character in the middle)

The minimum feats are: Power attack (for big hits) and combat reflexes (dex added to number of AoOs per round; you can get AoOs in the surprise round). This is simple, yet effective. It is basically just an upgrade to 2 handing builds.

More advanced feats are all about keep away games- trip builds (this can be questionable at later levels, and needs a lot of investment; still, there is joy in knocking enemies on their rear end as they run up), lunge (gives +5 reach to regular attacks; mostly good for positioning as you can attack and still keep enemies at a good range; not as necessary for your 15' reach), and pushing assault (trade power attack damage of a hit in order to push enemies back 5'; there are size restrictions... but that is no problem for you).

The OP likes critting, so for a Reach build, he probably should use a Fauchard. Fauchards are Tripping Weapons that do 1d10 Slashing and have a Threat Range of 18-20.

Personally, I never liked Crits, so my personal favorite Polearms are Lucerne Hammer, which does 1d12 Piercing or Bludgeoning and is a Reach and Brace Weapon; Horsechopper, which does 1d10 Slashing and is a Reach and Tripping Weapon, and the Halberd, which does 1d10 Slashing or Piercing, and is a Tripping and Brace Weapon.

But Fauchard is the right net for Crit-fishing with Reach.

By the way, Anvil, I mildly advise against Keen. I prefer taking Improved Crit, then following it up with Crit Focus and eventually one of those nasty Crit Mastery Feats. I see you have other ways to gain bonuses on Confirming Crits, though


@scott, I too like crit focus skills but, I had only 2 feats to play with.

I only am Crit pro when it comes to dmg like this and a 25% change of doing it.

The half elf lets me pick either Fauchard or Elven Curved Blade... I'm under the impression (and I've been wrong before) that the large troll has 10' reach and the huge troll has 15' reach.

I'm sticking with Elven Curved Blade because of Elven Battle Training mixed with Grasping Strike and finally, I have knockdown as a rage power....So I should get my 2 AoOs... Not that I should need them after Greater Vital Strike.

P.S. "God Mode is at lvl 20 with Greater Vital Strike and 8th level spells but, no GVS at level 19 (so 1/2 dmg) because of the +16 to hit requirement of GVS.

And I think this guy is well planned out unless someone has an answer on the "Call Animal" question.

I will post the level 7 and 14 mock-ups later today if anyone wants to see if the build holds water early game (I think it does but, not as melee that is what creatures are for).


It strikes me that your AC and to hit is pretty low for a level 20 character.


@chromatic Durgon It's because I've got minimum magical items.


Anvil Mithrashield wrote:
The half elf lets me pick either Fauchard or Elven Curved Blade...

I only brought up Fauchard in response lemere suggesting a Reach Build and my recalling you want a Crit build.

Anvil Mithrashield wrote:
that the large troll has 10' reach and the huge troll has 15' reach.

The Fauchard would add 5' more, but again, I'm not actually advising you do it. I was only expanding on lemere's suggestion by offering more information.


A note on the large/ huge size in small areas, squeezing sucks,(-4 to hit and AC). There are not a lot of ways to combat this but one that works well is the Universal Monster Abliltiy compression. 1/4 space with no squeezing and 1/8th with squeezing will get you threw most small spots.

The easiest way to get this is the Belt of the Weasel. A dex belt over str isn't ideal but is nice with the combat reflexes. The moving and attacking wile prone can also be nice.


Cold North Leshy wrote:

A note on the large/ huge size in small areas, squeezing sucks,(-4 to hit and AC). There are not a lot of ways to combat this but one that works well is the Universal Monster Abliltiy compression. 1/4 space with no squeezing and 1/8th with squeezing will get you threw most small spots.

The easiest way to get this is the Belt of the Weasel. A dex belt over str isn't ideal but is nice with the combat reflexes. The moving and attacking wile prone can also be nice.

Large might not be too much of a problem (since monsters tend to get bigger at higher levels, and they have to fit too).

Not as much of an issue if you go the off brand goliath route by using earth elementals- they can earthglide.

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