Follow the Expert


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
caps wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
some skills benefit quite a bit from more than one Expert (indeed, you need one Expert for every unskilled person, on average).
What do you mean by that? * * * It just says "choose an ally attempting a recurring skillcheck while exploring" so there is nothing stopping one or more of your other friends from choosing that same ally.

Yep. It's an action taken by the follower, not the leader, and there's nothing here that disallows multiple characters from following the same leader.

Liberty's Edge

caps wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
some skills benefit quite a bit from more than one Expert (indeed, you need one Expert for every unskilled person, on average).
What do you mean by that?

That I misread it, basically. My bad.

But some skills benefit strongly for doubling up anyway. If only one person has Expert Stealth, you can't ever both split up and be sneaky, for example.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
caps wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
some skills benefit quite a bit from more than one Expert (indeed, you need one Expert for every unskilled person, on average).
What do you mean by that?

That I misread it, basically. My bad.

But some skills benefit strongly for doubling up anyway. If only one person has Expert Stealth, you can't ever both split up and be sneaky, for example.

In fact, in my real life example, the party had 6 PCs and wanted to fully replace two three-guard groups when they returned from leave. The rogue with good Cha and master Deception led the second group that included the social skill-less human fighter, and the dwarven fighter with low Cha but master Deception and other benefits thanks to being a Lion Blade led the first group (with the trained but high Cha sorcerer/redeemer of Falayna and the expert wizard) that had to pass as guards for longer and wait for the other group to arrive.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
caps wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
some skills benefit quite a bit from more than one Expert (indeed, you need one Expert for every unskilled person, on average).
What do you mean by that?

That I misread it, basically. My bad.

But some skills benefit strongly for doubling up anyway. If only one person has Expert Stealth, you can't ever both split up and be sneaky, for example.

In fact, in my real life example, the party had 6 PCs and wanted to fully replace two three-guard groups when they returned from leave. The rogue with good Cha and master Deception led the second group that included the social skill-less human fighter, and the dwarven fighter with low Cha but master Deception and other benefits thanks to being a Lion Blade led the first group (with the trained but high Cha sorcerer/redeemer of Falayna and the expert wizard) that had to pass as guards for longer and wait for the other group to arrive.

Is... is that a spoiler that Lion Blade may be an archetype? I would be not be surprised if Lion Blade was the Shining Kingdoms archetype honestly.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Vorsk, Follower or Erastil wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
caps wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
some skills benefit quite a bit from more than one Expert (indeed, you need one Expert for every unskilled person, on average).
What do you mean by that?

That I misread it, basically. My bad.

But some skills benefit strongly for doubling up anyway. If only one person has Expert Stealth, you can't ever both split up and be sneaky, for example.

In fact, in my real life example, the party had 6 PCs and wanted to fully replace two three-guard groups when they returned from leave. The rogue with good Cha and master Deception led the second group that included the social skill-less human fighter, and the dwarven fighter with low Cha but master Deception and other benefits thanks to being a Lion Blade led the first group (with the trained but high Cha sorcerer/redeemer of Falayna and the expert wizard) that had to pass as guards for longer and wait for the other group to arrive.
Is... is that a spoiler that Lion Blade may be an archetype? I would be not be surprised if Lion Blade was the Shining Kingdoms archetype honestly.

I'm running War for the Crown. What I didn't have available, I converted. Not saying whether or not I had this available ^_~


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Vorsk, Follower or Erastil wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
caps wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
some skills benefit quite a bit from more than one Expert (indeed, you need one Expert for every unskilled person, on average).
What do you mean by that?

That I misread it, basically. My bad.

But some skills benefit strongly for doubling up anyway. If only one person has Expert Stealth, you can't ever both split up and be sneaky, for example.

In fact, in my real life example, the party had 6 PCs and wanted to fully replace two three-guard groups when they returned from leave. The rogue with good Cha and master Deception led the second group that included the social skill-less human fighter, and the dwarven fighter with low Cha but master Deception and other benefits thanks to being a Lion Blade led the first group (with the trained but high Cha sorcerer/redeemer of Falayna and the expert wizard) that had to pass as guards for longer and wait for the other group to arrive.
Is... is that a spoiler that Lion Blade may be an archetype? I would be not be surprised if Lion Blade was the Shining Kingdoms archetype honestly.
I'm running War for the Crown. What I didn't have available, I converted. Not saying whether or not I had this available ^_~

Tease! :)


It seems reasonable to assume that all of those "Prestige Classes tied to membership in a particular organization on Golarion" are going to eventually resurface as 6th level archetypes. Which have been written to date and are waiting to appear in a book, we don't know (except Hellknight, I think we know Hellknight is coming soon.)


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Given how much the “everyone needs to be able to sneak past the guard” scenario was touted, this seems like an infinitely better feat than giving everyone +level to everything. It also means the party could not have succeeded except for that stealth specialist which means it is because of that PC’s awesomeness that they succeeded instead of everyone being awesome at everything.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I play with people that love to invest in skills and some that only care about one or 2 skills that they favor. I love this option since it allows both play styles well not closing off any options for players tackling challenges.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Given how much the “everyone needs to be able to sneak past the guard” scenario was touted, this seems like an infinitely better feat than giving everyone +level to everything. It also means the party could not have succeeded except for that stealth specialist which means it is because of that PC’s awesomeness that they succeeded instead of everyone being awesome at everything.

As a person who touted the scenario, I am humbled by your attention.

Also, it's not a feat. But then again you never quite read the PF2 stuff you're commenting on :)


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Gorbacz wrote:
Also, it's not a feat. But then again you never quite read the PF2 stuff you're commenting on :)

Yeah, I misunderstood what I was reading in the OP and didn’t realise until I read subsequent posts. It’s even better this way, although I don’t think the snark is necessary. I actually went to great lengths to fully understand the rules during the playtest. But. Whatever.


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Of course it is a feat, because making it past the guard is an accomplishment. An amazing feat!


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John Lynch 106 wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Also, it's not a feat. But then again you never quite read the PF2 stuff you're commenting on :)
Yeah, I misunderstood what I was reading in the OP and didn’t realise until I read subsequent posts. It’s even better this way, although I don’t think the snark is necessary. I actually went to great lengths to fully understand the rules during the playtest. But. Whatever.

Gorbacz has a hard time understanding that it's reasonable for a person's opinion to change if the thing they have an opinion on changes


Arachnofiend wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Also, it's not a feat. But then again you never quite read the PF2 stuff you're commenting on :)
Yeah, I misunderstood what I was reading in the OP and didn’t realise until I read subsequent posts. It’s even better this way, although I don’t think the snark is necessary. I actually went to great lengths to fully understand the rules during the playtest. But. Whatever.
Gorbacz has a hard time understanding that it's reasonable for a person's opinion to change if the thing they have an opinion on changes

Nope. That had nothing to do with changing your opinion over time and everything to do with not agreeing with him.


John Lynch 106 wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Also, it's not a feat. But then again you never quite read the PF2 stuff you're commenting on :)
Yeah, I misunderstood what I was reading in the OP and didn’t realise until I read subsequent posts. It’s even better this way, although I don’t think the snark is necessary. I actually went to great lengths to fully understand the rules during the playtest. But. Whatever.

In the Original Post, I said "exploration activity" and did not use the word "feat" until the 6th paragraph.

However, that 6th paragraph points out that in the playtest doing something special with expert proficiency always required a feat. The misunderstanding that Follow the Expert requires a feat is understandable.


It was more the way the thing was structured. Bolded title, bunch of keywords, description of the "ability". I guess I should have noticed the lack of level, although given it was being hand typed it would make sense to not have a level.


John Lynch 106 wrote:
It was more the way the thing was structured. Bolded title, bunch of keywords, description of the "ability". I guess I should have noticed the lack of level, although given it was being hand typed it would make sense to not have a level.

Every action, activity, free action, or reaction (i.e., task) in Pathfinder 2nd Edition is formatted that way. Take for example the way to open a door is formatted on page 307 in the Playtest Rulebook.

[Action] Interact Basic Action
Manipulate
You use your hand or hands to manipulate an object or the terrain. You grab an unattended or stored object, open a door, or do some similar action. You may have to attempt a skill check to determine if your Interact action was successful.

Liberty's Edge

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ALSO: To be fair....

Spoiler:
You typically DO need feet to follow someone, especially an expert.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:
ALSO: To be fair.... ** spoiler omitted **

*Ba-dum tssh* He’s here all week folks!


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Mathmuse wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
It was more the way the thing was structured. Bolded title, bunch of keywords, description of the "ability". I guess I should have noticed the lack of level, although given it was being hand typed it would make sense to not have a level.

Every action, activity, free action, or reaction (i.e., task) in Pathfinder 2nd Edition is formatted that way. Take for example the way to open a door is formatted on page 307 in the Playtest Rulebook.

[Action] Interact Basic Action
Manipulate
You use your hand or hands to manipulate an object or the terrain. You grab an unattended or stored object, open a door, or do some similar action. You may have to attempt a skill check to determine if your Interact action was successful.

Ok....

Further explanation isn’t really going to allow us to travel back in time and stop me from thinking upon first reading the OP that it was a feat.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:
ALSO: To be fair.... ** spoiler omitted **

Somewhere a merfolk angrily slapped the ground with their strong tail and flopped away.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Themetricsystem wrote:
ALSO: To be fair.... ** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Then I take it you have never had a double amputee in a wheelchair chase you down?


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Themetricsystem wrote:
ALSO: To be fair.... ** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:
Flumphs have been doing it for years. Feets or for chumps.
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