Hell's Rebels: Gray Paladin or Courtly Hunter?


Advice


Hey all, about to start an AP in a couple weeks, and I'm bouncing between a few ideas. I love the utility and added fun of an animal companion a lot, but this particular AP seems to be perfect for the Gray Paladin's theme and setup.

Any thoughts on people who have played these archetypes or the AP itself? My team seems to have the skill-monkey, divine casting, and healing already set. What we need are melee classes who can stand on the front line.

However, I don't want to be completely bored/cutoff from all the non-combat portions of the AP, of which I hear there are more than average. I'm pretty open to a lot of ideas, themes, races, and archetypes. Mostly I just need a frontline melee fighter who, preferabbly, isn't useless outside of combat and can do more than just standard attack/full attack every round.

Thanks in advance.


Both are downgrades from the base class. Gray paladin especially, considering that you won't run into too many nonevil foes in an AP based around fighting the forces of Hell. If you want a frontline fighter who's good in combat, I'd go with the paladin simply because they're more tanky, and because courtly hunter loses many of the best aspect options. Paladins have use outside of combat, but not much... and the spells of a hunter will give you more versatility. You'll have to balance combat effectiveness with overall flexibility.

Either way, know that you're nerfing yourself by playing either of these archetypes.

I'm a fan of slayers. Studied target, medium armor, full bab, two good saves, d10 hit dice, lots of skills, sneak attack, and slayer talents... they can excel both in combat on the front lines, and out of combat as a scout or party face. For extra party compatibility, the vanguard archetype grants shareable teamwork feats and a studied target sharing ability. Your party will love you.


I wouldn't go so far as to say the Courtly Hunter is a direct downgrade - it's certainly worse for the normal expectations of a Hunter, but the fact that it makes your companion intelligent (and therefore capable of taking any feat) is quite significant. Pick a companion with a decent charisma and you can leverage the Frilled Lizard focus to get extra hits in with Hurtful, for example.

Gray Paladin sucks, though. Completely irredeemable archetype there.


Is that worth losing most of your combat viability in the form of aspects? Many of the best feats for animal companions are already available to them in the standard list.


Having played a Paladin in Hell's Rebels, I vouch for the class. Plus if you go human and don't absolutely dump INT you'll have enough skills to get by. Plus detect evil, lay on hands, mercies etc. can be leveraged out of combat.


Paladin is fine, great even. It's the Gray Paladin archetype that cannot be reasonably recommended, you just trade out most of what makes Paladin good for the privilege of being Lawful Neutral.

TheGreatWot wrote:
Is that worth losing most of your combat viability in the form of aspects? Many of the best feats for animal companions are already available to them in the standard list.

It's not the best choice, no, but if your goal is to have an animal companion that isn't inconvenient in social situations (which Hell's Rebels has many of, from my understanding) then the Courtly Hunter is at least functional. It's so sideways from the normal expectations of a Hunter that it's at least possible to do something different with it so you don't have the "same thing but worse" effect like you get with, for example, the Gray Paladin.


TheGreatWot wrote:

Both are downgrades from the base class. Gray paladin especially, considering that you won't run into too many nonevil foes in an AP based around fighting the forces of Hell. If you want a frontline fighter who's good in combat, I'd go with the paladin simply because they're more tanky, and because courtly hunter loses many of the best aspect options. Paladins have use outside of combat, but not much... and the spells of a hunter will give you more versatility. You'll have to balance combat effectiveness with overall flexibility.

Either way, know that you're nerfing yourself by playing either of these archetypes.

I'm a fan of slayers. Studied target, medium armor, full bab, two good saves, d10 hit dice, lots of skills, sneak attack, and slayer talents... they can excel both in combat on the front lines, and out of combat as a scout or party face. For extra party compatibility, the vanguard archetype grants shareable teamwork feats and a studied target sharing ability. Your party will love you.

Looking at the Slayer, I'm unsure how to make this a frontline class that can handle the punishment of monsters focusing it. It appears to be rather rogue-like at a glance.

I hear a lot of 'Gray Paladin isn't worth it', as well, and I can see that. I mostly like the flavor aspects of a NG paladin that can lie, cheat, and steal while helping a rebellion get off the ground. What classes would one recommend, then, if not the GP?


The Slayer is a d10 HD class with medium armor proficiency, don't be fooled by sneak attack. It's honestly closer to a "Fighter with skills" than a Rogue.


Arachnofiend wrote:
The Slayer is a d10 HD class with medium armor proficiency, don't be fooled by sneak attack. It's honestly closer to a "Fighter with skills" than a Rogue.

Very interesting, thank you! Giving it a closer look now. Are there any archetypes it has that are worth considering?


Vanguard. :p


Paladin is pretty.....meh for that AP.

Bard
Vigilante
Warpriest (milani, calistria, other CG or NG god)
unchained rogue

All have some very strong thematic ties to that whole adventure path.


Dawnflower Dervish Bard is quite good for the AP. Decent damage, decent front-liner, good versatility, lots of skills.

Swashbuckler would also likely work quite well for your group. Yes, lower hit points, but really god at not getting hit.


Magus could be a decent option. Good in a fight with a secondary focus on intelligence for skills.

Silver Crusade

Warped Savant wrote:
Dawnflower Dervish Bard is quite good for the AP. Decent damage, decent front-liner, good versatility, lots of skills.

I second this. I'm playing a Dawnflower Dervish in Hell's Rebels, and I'm loving it!


Hells Rebels does seem to assume that your party will have a bard, based on the loot you will find.


Ryan Freire wrote:

Paladin is pretty.....meh for that AP.

Bard
Vigilante
Warpriest (milani, calistria, other CG or NG god)
unchained rogue

All have some very strong thematic ties to that whole adventure path.

Strongly disagree. Mechanically most enemies you run into are evil (and therefore smiteable) plus with a high CHA they can play backup party face. Plus they're basically indestructible.

Lore wise, the AP takes into account lawful characters as an option. I played an agent of the Glorious Reclamation sent to Kintargo to establish a cell there.

That said, this campaign just screams vigilante. I have a player who is playing an avenger vigilante and so far she seems very satisfied with the class.

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