Making sure I understand Harrows


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

In CotCT, we have the whole new set of Harrow blessings so I want to be sure I'm using them correctly. They go in the Vault, so they are generally treated just like any other blessing in that they can be in locations and can be in the hourglass. At the start of each adventure (not scenario), I'll need to go through the stack and fish out the nine Harrow blessings that correspond to the adventure's suit, and each player will pick one randomly to get as an extra for their starting hand for all the scenarios of that adventure. Players can also acquire and keep Harrow blessings from locations just like any other boon, and I'm assuming that any Harrows in decks are not available for the random "start of adventure" draw.

I think these statements are correct.

What happens if too many Harrows of the appropriate suit are already in players' decks, such that there aren't enough to draw one for each player? Right now my solution is "try not to do that."


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I'm not sure I understand your question...

ryric wrote:
At the start of each adventure (not scenario), I'll need to go through the stack and fish out the nine Harrow blessings that correspond to the adventure's suit, and each player will pick one randomly to get as an extra for their starting hand for all the scenarios of that adventure.

So, technically, since it's the "start of adventure" - the new Harrows won't have been mixed in with any other blessings yet. You start AD1 - you just take the AD1 blessings - the Keys- draw one for each player, then you shuffle the rest to the AD0/1 blessings from Core.

When you start AD2, you take the AD2 Harrows and before adding them to the Vault - you draw a new L2 Harrow for each character, then shuffle the rest (and any of the L1 Keys those characters had drawn at the start of AD1) in the Vault. Etc..

Basically, I can't see how you *can't* have enough of a Harrow type at adventure start - as that's the first time you add the appropriate-Level Harrows to the game at all. Or am I missing something?


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

All of the Harrow blessings are level 1, so the situation ryric suggests is possible.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
MorkXII wrote:
All of the Harrow blessings are level 1, so the situation ryric suggests is possible.

Oh! My bad. I assumed we keep the old "each AD adds new card types of its tier" system. Soo... there are no AD 2-6 blessings in Curse then?!?

In that case, esp. in a 6-player game, ryric's dilemma seems all but guaranteed, and I'd chalk it up to a very weird oversight. I can't imagine any of my players will be particularly happy to part with the blessings they've earned fair and square for their decks, just to give them up for another player's random draw.

Also, if so, that will create a very weird "invalid deck" situations that fall between the "After the scenario: rebuilding" and before "Building the Vault" for the new adventure. I mean, it seems intuitive that we'd just have to draw a random AD-2 blessing, but still...


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Before each adventure, you still add cards to the vault matching the adventure's level, but all the Harrow blessings from Curse are level 1. (You'll still add the level 2 Core blessings when you start the second adventure.) I guess they wanted the entire Harrow deck influencing events in Korvosa right from the beginning.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

To clarify: there are blessings in CotCT of level >1, but all of the Harrows are level 1 so all 54 mix in right away. There's far fewer "basic" blessings so you end up with a stack comparable to the initial stack in any earlier AP, just about 2/3 Harrows at first.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
ryric wrote:

Players can also acquire and keep Harrow blessings from locations just like any other boon, and I'm assuming that any Harrows in decks are not available for the random "start of adventure" draw.

I think these statements are correct.

What happens if too many Harrows of the appropriate suit are already in players' decks, such that there aren't enough to draw one for each player? Right now my solution is "try not to do that."

I like the idea of returning Harrows of the current draw suit and drawing from the full set.

But I came up with that after looking through the all the blessings three times trying to find the 9th shield Harrow before realizing it may be in a deck. ;p


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Actually we took another option that seems thematic and avoids any issue:

When starting a new adventure (AD), all players check if they already have at least one Harrow of the required suit in their deck, then :
- Each player that do have at least one select one of them at random to be YOUR Harrow for the AD, and return to the vault all the others (Harrow blessings of the AD suits I mean).
- Then each other player select at random in the Vault a Harrow for the AD.
- Then each player of the first group draw at random enough blessings from the vault to complete their deck.

E. g. let's say a group of 5 characters start a new AD with the Harrow suit being Shields.
> Alice and Bob both have 2 Harrow-Shield blessings in her deck
> Cindy has one
> Doug and Eliott have none

1) Alice selects at random one of her 2 Harrow-Shield blessings to be her Harrow for the AD and return the other to the vault. She now lacks two blessings in her deck.
2) Bob does the same.
3) Cindy selects her unique Harrow-Shield blessing to be her Harrow for the AD. She now lacks a blessing in her deck.
4) Now the 6 remaining Harrow-Shield blessings are back in the Vault, allowing Doug and Eliott to each draw one of them as their Harrow for the AD.
5) The 4 remaining Harrow-Shield blessings are put back in the Vault
6) Alice and Bob both draw 2 blessings from the vault and Cindy draws one (they may actually draw another Harrow-Shield blessing but it's OK that won't be their Harrow)

This actually means you can cheat fate a little by selecting in a previous adventure the Harrow you want to keep for the next one (unless you are a Fighter or Wizard :-)), but it avoids any issue with lacking cards...


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Honestly, I'd just complete 6 Harrowings for each character in a party when I start the Adventure Path, then note it down on the printed character sheets.

Adventure 1: (This Blessing)
Adventure 2: (This Blessing)
Adventure 3: (This Blessing)
etc...

Then, if we get to an adventure and one of our Harrows has already been acquired and is in a deck, then we just pluck it from that character's deck and that player draws a New Harrow blessing from the vault to replace it.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

"Simple" (I hope) house rule: When you rebuild your deck after completing the last scenario in an adventure, you may not keep blessings of X suit (the suit needed for the next adventure).

I was trying to find a way to use the official Deluxe Harrow Deck for this, but the cards are too large (tarot sized) and they lack the information needed to play PACG. The original deck might work from a size perspective, but it, too, lacks the PACG powers. Moreover, most players don't have it (you're lucky if you do) and it's only available at an exorbitant price, so it's not really a reasonable solution.

Another possible outcome would be for Paizo/Lone Shark to create a new PACG Harrow deck, separate from the CotCT AP. This would have its own deck icon and could be used in any AP/adventure/scenario in which the Harrow cards might be used in a similar fashion (so that players don't have to fish through the CotCT blessings to get the Harrow cards. These cards wouldn't be added to the vault, remaining separate. When playing CotCT, these cards would be used for the adventure-specific Harrow cards, and the distinctive icon would make it easy (relatively) to remove the cards from characters' decks at the end of the adventure without getting them confused in the AP vault. A variation on this theme would be for Paizo/Lone Shark to make the hypothetical Harrow blessings deck available from Drive Thru Cards.

An easier (? - perhaps cheaper) alternative to that might be for Paizo/Lone Shark to make the images of the Harrow blessings available so that we can download/print them, similar to the way we print the OP cards. We can then hold these in reserve, using them only for the adventure-specific purpose. This solution would only work well for players that sleeve their cards.

All of these product/download solutions are kind of wish-listy, so I'll use the first house rule solution unless/until some other working alternative becomes available.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

The previous two posts' "solutions" are fine too.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Crazy pipe dream idea (because I love Harrowers and the Harrows): create a Harrows Add-On deck similar to the other add-on decks. It would include a single Harrower character, all of the Harrow blessings, and then a bunch of Harrows-themed boons and other boons useful to the Harrower character.

Players could then use the Harrows blessings for the CotCT adventure-specific requirement.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Brother Tyler wrote:

Crazy pipe dream idea (because I love Harrowers and the Harrows): create a Harrows Add-On deck similar to the other add-on decks. It would include a single Harrower character, all of the Harrow blessings, and then a bunch of Harrows-themed boons and other boons useful to the Harrower character.

Players could then use the Harrows blessings for the CotCT adventure-specific requirement.

Man, why did you have to say that? That sounds super cool and interesting (particularly a 'pure' Harrower style character - maybe another printing of Erasmus?) and I'd totally buy that in a heartbeat, but I'm pretty certain it's never going to get made.

(I can think of heaps of character ideas. For example, he could make his own Harrowing at the start of each Adventure - regardless of the AP - as a special deckbuilding rule, but starts with a 14 card deck list. He could emphasize hourglass scouting and manipulation - swap the hour with a blessing of the same or greater Level in his hand, for example - or have an Occult-Adventures style setup where his specific powers/strengths vary with the checks to acquire listed on the hour.)

That's so cool and it doesn't exist. Now I'm bummed.

(Maybe I'll make a custom character for it way later...)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Yewstance wrote:

That sounds super cool and interesting (particularly a 'pure' Harrower style character - maybe another printing of Erasmus?) and I'd totally buy that in a heartbeat, but I'm pretty certain it's never going to get made.

(I can think of heaps of character ideas. For example, he could make his own Harrowing at the start of each Adventure - regardless of the AP - as a special deckbuilding rule, but starts with a 14 card deck list. He could emphasize hourglass scouting and manipulation - swap the hour with a blessing of the same or greater Level in his hand, for example - or have an Occult-Adventures style setup where his specific powers/strengths vary with the checks to acquire listed on the hour.)

That's so cool and it doesn't exist. Now I'm bummed.

(Maybe I'll make a custom character for it way later...)

Someone turn on the Sharksignal quick! I have some (more) money I need to throw their way!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Make up the difference with random Harrow blessings. Added to FAQ.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Card Game / Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion / Making sure I understand Harrows All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.