Phantom Blade and Improvised Weapons


Rules Questions


If a Phantom Blade has the Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything feats, could they make their phantom weapon an improvised weapon?

Phantom Weapon:
A phantom blade begins play with an ectoplasmic sentient weapon known as a phantom weapon whose weapon type is chosen by the phantom blade. The weapon type must be one with which the phantom blade is proficient. A phantom weapon functions similarly to the black blade of the bladebound magus archetype except as noted on the Phantom Weapon Progression table. A phantom blade with this class feature can’t have a phantom of any kind, even from another class.

At the heart of this question is whether or not Catch Off-Guard/Throw Anything grants proficiency with melee/ranged improvised weapons or merely eliminates the penalty to attack with them. Looking at all of the weapon proficiency feats, eliminating the penalty seems synonymous with granting proficiency.

Simple Weapon Proficiency:
You are trained in the use of basic weapons.

Benefit: You make attack rolls with simple weapons without penalty.

Normal: When using a weapon with which you are not proficient, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

Martial Weapon Proficiency:
Choose a type of martial weapon. You understand how to use that type of martial weapon in combat.

Benefit: You make attack rolls with the selected weapon normally (without the non-proficient penalty).

Normal: When using a weapon with which you are not proficient, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency:
Choose one type of exotic weapon, such as the spiked chain or whip. You understand how to use that type of exotic weapon in combat, and can utilize any special tricks or qualities that exotic weapon might allow.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: You make attack rolls with the weapon normally.

Normal: A character who uses a weapon with which he is not proficient takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls.

Catch Off-Guard:
Foes are surprised by your skilled use of unorthodox and improvised weapons.

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are flat-footed against any attacks you make with an improvised melee weapon.

Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with an improvised weapon.


Throw Anything:
You are used to throwing things you have on hand.

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised ranged weapon. You receive a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made with thrown splash weapons.

Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with an improvised weapon.

Looking at the other Phantom Blade threads, it is clear that the phantom weapon's weapon type chosen doesn't have to be compatible with Spell Combat or Spellstrike and that it was the intent of the designers to have it that way.

What I want to know is this: Can I whack some heads with an ectoplasmic chair?


normally you are not proficient with improvised weapons even if you have catch of guard or throw anything.
that is why Improvisational Focus feat was made.

also you might want to look at these feats:
shikigami style and its following feats.
and as for improvised chairs...

and of course this lovely trait.

enjoy.


Wow, thanks for the links!

Some more questions:

Since improvised weapons can be basically any item that's not designed to be a weapon and a Phantom Blade can materialize improvised weapons if proficient in them (with Improvisational Focus), could a Phantom Blade at 7th level make their weapon a readable book in the morning? Could this book contain very secret information (like, a copy of somebody's diary)? Wouldn't these be improvised weapons that the Phantom Blade can materialize?

Could the Phantom Blade materialize a special key to access a secret room?

Also, since one can knock down large statues on their enemies in combat and those would be considered improvised weapons (statues aren't meant for combat), could the weapon be of a gigantic size? Could the improvised weapon be a giant ball like what's in "Raider's of the Lost Ark" that can be rolled down a hill (and called back to do it again at 9th level)?

Could the Phantom Blade make the weapon a bunch of coins, since coins can be improvised ranged weapons? Could they appear platinum, and what would it take to see that they are ectoplasmic copies?

Since just about anything not designed to be a weapon can be an improvised weapon, does the Phantom Blade unlock extreme versatility if they get Improvisational Focus?


Milkshaketeer wrote:

Wow, thanks for the links!

Some more questions:

Since improvised weapons can be basically any item that's not designed to be a weapon and a Phantom Blade can materialize improvised weapons if proficient in them (with Improvisational Focus), could a Phantom Blade at 7th level make their weapon a readable book in the morning? Could this book contain very secret information (like, a copy of somebody's diary)? Wouldn't these be improvised weapons that the Phantom Blade can materialize?

Could the Phantom Blade materialize a special key to access a secret room?

Also, since one can knock down large statues on their enemies in combat and those would be considered improvised weapons (statues aren't meant for combat), could the weapon be of a gigantic size? Could the improvised weapon be a giant ball like what's in "Raider's of the Lost Ark" that can be rolled down a hill (and called back to do it again at 9th level)?

Could the Phantom Blade make the weapon a bunch of coins, since coins can be improvised ranged weapons? Could they appear platinum, and what would it take to see that they are ectoplasmic copies?

Since just about anything not designed to be a weapon can be an improvised weapon, does the Phantom Blade unlock extreme versatility if they get Improvisational Focus?

Can you manifest a book? Yes. Can you manifest a specific book with specific information written on it? No. No where in the Phantom Weapon description does it say you get to choose the details of the weapon, just the type of weapon.

Same with a specific key to a specific room. Even if you could control the fine details, you'd have to know the exact details in order to create them.
Same with 'counterfeit coin weaponry'.

As for the giant statue weapons, I'd guess at 'No'. Mainly because they would be too large for you to wield them. Otherwise, even a normal Phantom Blade could just manifest a Gargantuan Greatclub in front of themself and wipe out entire enemy groups at once. Just dropping them on someone does not, I think, count as wielding a weapon. Of course your DM may decide differently.

Also, don't forget that your Phantom Weapon is a creature on it's own. It is a spirit (of war and combat no less) with its own mind and ego. It might not appreciate being used as an Evertool...


Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
Milkshaketeer wrote:
*Wishful-thinking shenanigans*

... No where in the Phantom Weapon description does it say you get to choose the details of the weapon, just the type of weapon. ...

... As for the giant statue weapons, I'd guess at 'No'. Mainly because they would be too large for you to wield them. ...

... Also, don't forget that your Phantom Weapon is a creature on it's own. It is a spirit (of war and combat no less) with its own mind and ego. It might not appreciate being used as an Evertool...

If I can make an ectoplasmic chair, can I not make it Jacobean? Since "improvised weapon" is a weapon type, can I not choose to make my improvised weapon a chair? Is the weapon forbidden from being inappropriately sized? The "you can't materialize what you don't know" argument seems correct (got ahead of myself there), but the limits of the Phantom Blade still has its ambiguities.

As far as the sentient weapon itself goes, I suppose I'd have to earn some brownie points to convince it to go along with the shenanigans I want it to.


I had to google what a Jacobean chair was. My initial guess was some kind of beanbag lol.

I'd say, yes you could specify a Jacobean chair, assuming your char knows what one looks like, but you wouldn't be able to specify 'a jacobean chair, made of red mahogany with a gilt trim'.

Just like you'd be able to specify 'a longsword', which is a weapon type, but not 'a longsword with raven shaped quillons and damascus etch pattern on the blade' which is a specific weapon.

There's nothing that says the Phantom Weapon must be appropriately sized, however I expect it's something the designers just assumed everyone would realise. That said, it's entirely up to your DM. Just be prepared to face npc Phantom Blades dropping 10 ton great clubs on your party if the DM does allow it. What's good for the goose..etc...

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