Some compatibility issues (Core - Transition Guide)


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


I believe these will be covered by the card-specific rule changes in the near future, but maybe it's best to list them here.

Let's start with Light Armor proficiency ending - noooooooooooo! :) Joking. So there is no Light Armor Proficiency anymore, so some characters will be influenced a lot. What about playing Lini in the RotR with new rules? You play with the same rewards, so you get 3 power feats before you get your role, right? Lini has four boxes, out of which one is Light Armor Proficiency. So all the RotR Linis will lose their slight uniqueness and all will be the same regarding the power section? I'm sad, less variability. *hums Little boxes, on the hillside …*

Second, closed locations are no more, and we should ignore the powers interacting with closed powers. Pan to a close view on the Letter of Marque and Safe Harbor from Skull&Shackles. First adds a type of boon to a closed location, the second makes a closed location temporary place of healing. Both have no other power - so in the new ruling they would become almost useless. Granted, I saw both cards as boons comparable in useability to the old_Blast_Stone (well, Damiel can use it better than everyone else, so it's not exactly useless).


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Just as an aside; there are a LOT more compatibility issues beyond these. I can name dozens of character powers that fail to work, boons that fail to work, scenarios that are unwinnable with banished closed locations, or just massive difficulty spikes (and very occasional difficulty drops) caused by banishing closed locations (which seems to be responsible for the vast majority of compatibility issues).

The Recovery Rules also cause some issues, impacting some cards like Robe of Bones and a lot of character powers - for example; all 3 Witch Class Deck characters, and characters like S&S Alahazra who gain gain the Arcane/Divine skill for a specific encounter, ensuring they're left without it when it comes time to recover their spell. Some characters, like Menhir Savant Lini (Druid Class Deck) and Seoni (Wrath of the Righteous) are particularly hard-hit, far more so than the occasional dead power feat like Light Armor proficiency or powers that no longer work (like Class Deck Amiri or Skull and Shackles Feiya being able to move when their location closes).

All in all, I would just not play Pre-Core boons or characters with Post-Core sets/rules if I can help it, and vice-versa... or if I did, I'd make sure the table is willing to make extensive houserules to cover issues that could arise.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Yewstance wrote:
All in all, I would just not play Pre-Core boons or characters with Post-Core sets/rules if I can help it, and vice-versa... or if I did, I'd make sure the table is willing to make extensive houserules to cover issues that could arise.

With all due respect, it seems a bit of an extreme reaction. There has been some 140 official characters issued (and twice as many roles) and I'm pretty sure more than half (and that's maybe more than I can play through a full AP in my whole life) are fully compatible with the new Core. And I'm pretty sure it's true for boons too.

Now it's your game, you can play it absolutely the way you want but I would not jump into conclusions that may send the wrong signals, especially since nobody (except test guys) had the time to play a full Curse AP yet.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Frencois wrote:
Yewstance wrote:
All in all, I would just not play Pre-Core boons or characters with Post-Core sets/rules if I can help it, and vice-versa... or if I did, I'd make sure the table is willing to make extensive houserules to cover issues that could arise.

With all due respect, it seems a bit of an extreme reaction. There has been some 140 official characters issued (and twice as many roles) and I'm pretty sure more than half (and that's maybe more than I can play through a full AP in my whole life) are fully compatible with the new Core. And I'm pretty sure it's true for boons too.

Now it's your game, you can play it absolutely the way you want but I would not jump into conclusions that may send the wrong signals, especially since nobody (except test guys) had the time to play a full Curse AP yet.

I would say its an extreme stance to take forever, but honestly playing core with core characters FOR NOW seems like a good idea. I mean the characters are new content anyway, so might as well use them while the kinks are being worked out.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Frencois wrote:

With all due respect, it seems a bit of an extreme reaction. There has been some 140 official characters issued (and twice as many roles) and I'm pretty sure more than half (and that's maybe more than I can play through a full AP in my whole life) are fully compatible with the new Core. And I'm pretty sure it's true for boons too.

Now it's your game, you can play it absolutely the way you want but I would not jump into conclusions that may send the wrong signals, especially since nobody (except test guys) had the time to play a full Curse AP yet.

People paid for those character decks. If they want to play them, I dont think its an issue for them to houserule.

My group plays every week, and no longer log scenarios due to very modest house rules to make remove some of the unenjoyable aspects and allow us to increase difficulty if we need to.

**Props to the Society developers for Season of Tapestry's Tides, we didnt need to do anything to adjust the difficulty to enjoy the season.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Slacker2010 wrote:
People paid for those character decks. If they want to play them, I don't think its an issue for them to houserule.

Exactly my point. Seems to me that with very little or no houseruling (depending on the character), pretty much all of the character decks I have (i. e. all) can be played.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Frencois wrote:
Yewstance wrote:
All in all, I would just not play Pre-Core boons or characters with Post-Core sets/rules if I can help it, and vice-versa... or if I did, I'd make sure the table is willing to make extensive houserules to cover issues that could arise.

With all due respect, it seems a bit of an extreme reaction. There has been some 140 official characters issued (and twice as many roles) and I'm pretty sure more than half (and that's maybe more than I can play through a full AP in my whole life) are fully compatible with the new Core. And I'm pretty sure it's true for boons too.

Now it's your game, you can play it absolutely the way you want but I would not jump into conclusions that may send the wrong signals, especially since nobody (except test guys) had the time to play a full Curse AP yet.

I should learn to be more clear with what I say. My personal opinion and preference, at this time, is to not mix pre-Core and post-Core. (And even then, if the table is willing to houserule to bring powers in-line to what the Post-Core rulebook would make appropriate, then there's even less of an issue, but not all tables are willing to make houserules.)

I am fully aware that a large number of characters do not have any power entirely nullified, and a large number of boons still work as intended. However, the two 'eras' of PACG are built with different rulesets which cause large impacts to the balance of various mechanics and powers. Furthermore, the Core set characters are quite well-balanced with each other mechanically and in terms of respective skillsets, whilst pre-Core characters have a much, much wider range of power levels and average capabilities and flexibilities.

As a result, I feel that mixing pre-Core and post-Core cards and characters increases the risk of making a game too easy, or too hard. Additionally, a great number of powers have been lessened in effectiveness (almost any "move" power is a little weaker, now, since one major Use Case of using movement to move away from closed locations to join other characters or set up for temp-closing is no longer relevant with the default "move on close" rules), and using Core rules with pre-Core sets will cause difficulty spikes with various banes (like Lightning Storm).

I am not saying that Core cannot work with pre-Core content. Nor am I saying that nobody should attempt it. I am saying that I am going to go out of my way to avoid it, as I feel that blending cards developed from a different design and rulebook perspective is going to introduce elements that will make the game less fun, not more.


Slacker2010 wrote:

People paid for those character decks. If they want to play them, I dont think its an issue for them to houserule.

My group plays every week, and no longer log scenarios due to very modest house rules to make remove some of the unenjoyable aspects and allow us to increase difficulty if we need to.

**Props to the Society developers for Season of Tapestry's Tides, we didnt need to do anything to adjust the difficulty to enjoy the season.

I run PACS in a public location, and I don't really have the option of houseruling unless I cut myself off from Organized Play. While it seems you have a regular group and it's okay for you to do that, it's not a desirable option for me. And without the organized play system, it's probably unlikely that we'll have the Season scenarios at all, which would be tragic.

Note that I don't actually have a problem with houseruling. I do think houseruling is for established groups - but you have to establish a group to play with one.


Yewstance wrote:
Just as an aside; there are a LOT more compatibility issues beyond these. I can name dozens of character powers that fail to work, boons that fail to work, scenarios that are unwinnable with banished closed locations, or just massive difficulty spikes (and very occasional difficulty drops) caused by banishing closed locations (which seems to be responsible for the vast majority of compatibility issues).

Yewstance, I cannot compare to you in the knowledge of PACG (my first-hand experience is only with RotR and S&S), but the point wasn't that these boons fail to work correctly. Just that they do not have any powers in Core. You are told to ignore the powers dealing with closed locations, so in fact these have empty power section and are just a Loot hitpoint and a spell hitpoint :)

S&S Alahazra-Tempest is somewhat affected, true, but it's one minor power and nothing that cannot be changed in errata (like gains Arcane during recovery). Easy
And taking S&S Jirelle-Pirate Queen as an example, principally you are right that move powers are little weaker, but in this case, you want her ship-moving ability not for closing, but for evading those locations "at the start of yourn turn, do something nasty. At least that's my own use of her ability :)
Other than that, everything you said makes sense (even though I do not feel as strongly about mixing pre-Core and Core+)


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Jenceslav wrote:
S&S Alahazra-Tempest is somewhat affected, true, but it's one minor power and nothing that cannot be changed in errata (like gains Arcane during recovery). Easy

Don't get me wrong - I'm hoping for a large suite of errata to cover numerous 'dead' power feats (I can think of about 24 affected characters), such as Light Armor proficiency and various powers related to closed locations or powers that fail to work in recovery. If they're sufficiently cohesive, that'll solve a great many of my issues.

I did repeatedly use the phrase that I have little faith in mixing pre and post core at this time, but for now there is no errata. You can houserule your non-Organized Play games if your whole table agrees, and Society play just has to live with it.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Plans for a list of card adjustments for comaptibility were announced, here. So, it is coming.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Card Game / Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion / Some compatibility issues (Core - Transition Guide) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion