If level 20 monks are outsiders, can they be called with gate?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Title says it all.


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In this scenario you're using the second function of the Gate spell, per the following:

Gate Spell wrote:
Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect).

So to know if you can use it this way, let's check the rules for a calling effect.

Conjuration Rules wrote:
Calling: a calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.

So from this wording, we can see the following:

1. The Gate spell calls extraplanar creatures.
2. A calling effect transports a creature from another plane.

Thus, unless the Gate spell is cast on a different plane than the one where the 20th level monk currently resides, you can't use it to call them.

Also note that in no way is Gate limited to calling creatures of the outsider type. You can use a Gate spell to call a 1st level human commoner from the elemental plane of fire if you wish, so long as they're considered an extraplanar creature.


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out of the frying pan and into the elemental plane of fire

Regardless, it looks like the interpretation of calling extra-planer creatures, would imply that the creatures would need to be off your local plane as stated by JDLPF. Also note that unique individuals are allowed to refuse to pass through the gate possibly costing you some coin in the short term.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also (IIRC) the 20th level Monk is a native Outsider, not an extra-planar one.


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Everyone is extra planar when they're not on the their native plane.

BTW, that's not a joke.

Quote:

Extraplanar Subtype

This subtype is applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have it when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow.


Bellona wrote:
Also (IIRC) the 20th level Monk is a native Outsider, not an extra-planar one.

Depends entirely on where the speakers currently are.

The Monk is an Outsider normally found on the Prime Material Plane. He would be extra-planar anytime he is not on the Prime Material Plane, and more specifically anytime he is not on the Prime Material Plane where he was born/originated if the cosmology presumed other Material Planes existed or did exist. When he is on his Plane of origin he is a "native" Outsider. Outsider is his creature type, Extra-Planar is more properly thought of as a spell descriptor describing the way he interacts with spells such as Holy Word or in this case Gate. All it really means both in English and in the game is you are extra-planar anytime you are on a plane other than the one you were born on and on that plane you would be considered native instead.

And yes "they've" managed to make a simple concept confusing over the course of multiple editors and editions of the game.

And ninja'd in large part by Claxon's quoted text.
And the bit about Transitive Planes is interesting (and more or less adds to the overall confusion :P) Edit (again) to add: adds to the confusion because there are "natives" to the mentioned transitive planes so instead of natives and extraplanar creatures you have natives and ... non-natives?? found there.


Kayerloth wrote:
When he is on his Plane of origin he is a "native" Outsider.

An outsider(native) is an outsider(native) no matter what plane they are from or are on. Outsider(native)s have separate bodies and souls, other outsiders don't. Your body and soul don't merge or split whenever you plane shift. :-)

Kayerloth wrote:
And yes "they've" managed to make a simple concept confusing over the course of multiple editors and editions of the game.

True dat! Outsider(native) should probably be outsider(material), or even better a new type, quasi-outsider maybe.


Ahh, true my apologies to adding to the body confused. Native in that case refers to a subtype vs "I'm a native of New Golarion City".

Bestiary wrote:
Native Subtype: This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.

Sovereign Court

So, if something is extraplanar when it is not on its home plane, could you call say an angel from heaven? That is presumably its home plane and therefore not got the extraplanar tag then so couldn’t be gated in. You’d have to take an angel off travelling the planes, maybe fighting agents in hell to get it.

Or would it be you could gate in a creature from another plane so long as it would be considered extraplanar once it arrived, in which case gating in humans to the astral plane would be viable.


On a slight side note I have a question is there any published creature that can never gain the extraplanar type because all plains are the plains they reside in and are thus incapable of being gated in? Besides deities.


Ellias Aubec wrote:

So, if something is extraplanar when it is not on its home plane, could you call say an angel from heaven? That is presumably its home plane and therefore not got the extraplanar tag then so couldn’t be gated in. You’d have to take an angel off travelling the planes, maybe fighting agents in hell to get it.

Or would it be you could gate in a creature from another plane so long as it would be considered extraplanar once it arrived, in which case gating in humans to the astral plane would be viable.

The spell is written from the perspective of a caster on the material plane.

I believe the way it's written the intention is for any creature that would be extraplanar while on the material plane to be a valid "summon".

Conversely, when on another plane the same rules apply and you can gate in anything that would be considered extraplanar while on that plane.

So yes, you could gate in humans while in Hell.


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doomman47 wrote:
On a slight side note I have a question is there any published creature that can never gain the extraplanar type because all plains are the plains they reside in and are thus incapable of being gated in? Besides deities.

The LEVIATHAN! Also, Bandersnatch, Jabberwock, Jubjub Bird, Sard, Thrasfyr, and every member of the Wild Hunt.


Wow that’s so cool, thanks Derk :);


Neat thanks.


Claxon wrote:

Everyone is extra planar when they're not on the their native plane.

BTW, that's not a joke.

Quote:

Extraplanar Subtype

This subtype is applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have it when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow.

As another said, this kind of suggests that outsiders aren't extraplanar when on their home planes, and thus you can't call creatures that are either on your own plane or on their native one.

Clearly not RAI though.

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