Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aside from ammunition, are there any limits?
The description uses both singular and plural nouns, making it difficult to determine whether it can hold one of each weapon, or if there really is no limit.
I can't figure out what the item is supposed to do. Reloading is a move action that includes all the required secondary powers (finding the ammo, popping the old magazine out etc) and if you burn a swift action to hold the battery in your hand then... reloading is still a move action.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote: I can't figure out what the item is supposed to do. Insofar as I can tell, it's just supposed to hold a crap ton of ammo without having the bulk count against you.
Most ammo doesn't have bulk though, so it seems of rather limited utility to me. If it takes up one of your two magic item slots, I can't think of a reason why anyone would ever bother with having one.
On my first reading, I thought it could hold weapons too (like an efficient quiver does in Pathfinder), but now I'm not so sure. If it doesn't hold weapons, and is limited to just ammo, then I'm not sure why it mentions weapon categories at all. A battery can fit a melee weapon just as easily as it could a small arm, long arm, or heavy weapon.
Ravingdork wrote: BigNorseWolf wrote: I can't figure out what the item is supposed to do. Insofar as I can tell, it's just supposed to hold a crap ton of ammo without having the bulk count against you.
Most ammo doesn't have bulk though, so it seems of rather limited utility to me. If it takes up one of your two magic item slots, I can't think of a reason why anyone would ever bother with having one.
On my first reading, I thought it could hold weapons too (like an efficient quiver does in Pathfinder), but now I'm not so sure. If it doesn't hold weapons, and is limited to just ammo, then I'm not sure why it mentions weapon categories at all. A battery can fit a melee weapon just as easily as it could a small arm, long arm, or heavy weapon.
See, I'm wondering if it could fit grenades for a grenade launcher.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
It does say it holds explosives, whatever those are.
Ravingdork wrote: It does say it holds explosives, whatever those are. explosives are basically another form of grenades, using all the stats of grenades, except instead of throwing them to detonate instantly they are set to be detonated using a detonator keyed to that particular explosive. You can buy explosive packages for the same cost of the matching grenade. The detonator is extra though.
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I'll start here, with the reloading rules from AoN:
Reload
Unless stated otherwise, reloading is a move action that includes grabbing ammunition you have readily available. Some weapons require different actions to reload; see the weapon’s description.
I think the 'readily available' part is probably where the breakdown is, as far as what the bandolier does.
As players, of course we envision our character with some kind of tactical rigging that has batteries or magazines in it, that we can reach easily and without looking.
I think (some) GMs and the game itself are under the impression that if you didn't specifically buy something to keep your ammo readily available, then your ammo is just stuffed into your backpack, so you'd have to retrieve it, and then reload your gun.
Enter the bandolier, which not only holds a ton of all kinds of ammo for you, it also brings said ammo to your hand for ease of reloading.
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
I can't stand new rules options that limit, rather than expand upon, the existing rules.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote: I can't figure out what the item is supposed to do. Reloading is a move action that includes all the required secondary powers (finding the ammo, popping the old magazine out etc) and if you burn a swift action to hold the battery in your hand then... reloading is still a move action.
Retreiving an item from your backpack is a move action.
Reloading your weapon is a move action.
The bandolieer makes it so that you can retrieve ammo as a swift action and then reload as a move action and then you can use your standard action to shoot, all in the same turn.
Without the bandolier you have to spend 2 move actions to retrieve and reload your fire arms, so you would not be able to shoot until your next turn.
If the ammo is in your backpack, it is not readily available, that’s why it takes a move action to get it.
CRB 247
Manipulate an Item
Moving or manipulating an item is usually a move action. This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door.
CRB 247
Reload
Unless stated otherwise, reloading is a move action that includes grabbing ammunition you have readily available. Some weapons require different actions to reload; see the weapon’s description.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Pantshandshake wrote: I'll start here, with the reloading rules from AoN:
Reload
Unless stated otherwise, reloading is a move action that includes grabbing ammunition you have readily available. Some weapons require different actions to reload; see the weapon’s description.
I think the 'readily available' part is probably where the breakdown is, as far as what the bandolier does.
As players, of course we envision our character with some kind of tactical rigging that has batteries or magazines in it, that we can reach easily and without looking.
I think (some) GMs and the game itself are under the impression that if you didn't specifically buy something to keep your ammo readily available, then your ammo is just stuffed into your backpack, so you'd have to retrieve it, and then reload your gun.
Enter the bandolier, which not only holds a ton of all kinds of ammo for you, it also brings said ammo to your hand for ease of reloading.
You got this right!
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But that implies that your character can't just use a normal bandoleer of some sort strapped with batteries, grenades and so on. Instead they need a magic item...
That's just silly.
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Personally, I'd call a regular bandolier as keeping your spare ammo 'readily available.'
As far as I'm concerned, when you get the Efficient version, you're really just paying for the magical storage.
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Yeah, I assume armor has a reasonable amount of space on the front of it to clip on a few batteries or magazines (real world standard US army load is 6x30 round magazines on your chest, you could easily do more batteries) that require no special additional action to draw or load. At most you make a player pay 5-15 credits under the "additional basic equipment exists" clause from the CRB for ammo pouches.
The Efficient Bandolier needs an errata to have a point other than carrying an arbitrarily high amount of (unnecessary) ammo without a bulk cost. It's best to just ignore the supposed (and nonsensical) weapon categories and just treat it like 5 separate pouches that can each hold 1 bulk of ammo of the same type (battery categories, projectile category magazines, etc).
Plus one pouch for juice boxes.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xenocrat wrote: The Efficient Bandolier needs an errata to have a point other than carrying an arbitrarily high amount of (unnecessary) ammo without a bulk cost. It's best to just ignore the supposed (and nonsensical) weapon categories and just treat it like 5 separate pouches that can each hold 1 bulk of ammo of the same type (battery categories, projectile category magazines, etc). I totally agree!
Starfinder Charter Superscriber
A fully loaded Efficient Bandolier will have the following:
Batter charges: 200-1000 depending on the battery
Smallarm Rounds: 300
Longarm/Sniper Rounds: 250
Heavy Rounds: 200
Explosives: 10 grenades
That is a lot of ammunition and all of it weighs NOTHING, because it is stored in the hybrid bandolier which weighs a single L bulk. Keep in mind, that this is a Lv 4 hybrid item. Maybe you are expecting something more from an item this level?
Beneficial purposes:
-One character could possibly be carrying ammunition for others in his or her group.
-It is effectivly a backpack for ammunition that's two main advantages is large storage capacity and swift access.
-Your PCs might pick up a lot of ammo during their adventures.
-Easy book keeping in regards for weight.
You could have an analog Bandolier that will store items for you with swift access that has less capacity and will weigh you down with ammunition stored in it. That would most likely be more beneficial in the long run when you can buy/find better magic and hybrid items that are more worthy to take one of the magic item slots.
As for attaching stuff to your armor/cloths, I would not see a problem at all for the GameMaster/StarLord to say that you can have swift access to 5 grenades that are hanging from your belt or something akin to that.
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