Efreeti Bloodline "Efreeti Form" ability - no flight?


Rules Questions


So, I am becoming a bit disappointed with the Efreeti bloodline, as I'm approaching a the 9th level Efreeti Form ability. It seems a bit of a disappointment, that it won't really grant all that much, as a gnome sorcerer with high dex. As far as I can tell, it will:

drop dex (which is used for targeted spells)
boost str (would only be used if using the genie's slam)
base speed would be 'changed' to 20 ft
boosted con and natural armor
fire resist 20

The efreeti is a flying outsider. With the ability based on Giant Form I, however, i would not get the great Fly 40 ft. (perfect), because Giant Form, rightly so, doesn't grant flight (as there aren't generally any flying giants). So, this essentially lets the sorcerer, with little to no armor - go from little accurate blaster, to big front-line puncher, and worse at blasting (due to lower attack modifiers from size AND dex changes).

Am I missing something in this assessment? I was really looking forward to popping into genie form and buzzing about blasting - but that just doesn't seem near as capable as swapping it out for Blood Piercing, and just leaning more and more into burning fools.


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There are a lot of sorcerer bloodlines with that same problem.

The way to make an ability like that useful is to somehow gain the bloodline without actually being a sorcerer -- via VMC (variant multiclassing, from Pathfinder Unchained) sorcerer or the Eldritch Heritage feat line, for example.


To me, the problem isn't that it makes the sorcerer a melee monster - I'm okay with abilities that let you cast fist - but that's not what an Efreeti is all about. If an Efreeti is down to punching, he's already lost. This would be an even worse transition if I was a human, because I would get even slower with the change. That flight is so very important to what they do.


Efreeti Bloodline wrote:
Efreeti Form (Su): At 9th level, you gain the ability to assume the form of an efreeti once per day. This acts like the spell giant form I, except you only use it to become an efreeti and its duration is 1 round per level. While in this form, you also gain an efreeti's heat ability.

That last bit looks to me like they actually did think about "Which other efreeti abilities should they get that aren't granted in giant form?" So I wouldn't call the omission of flight an oversight.

Maybe they didn't want to infringe on Djinni bloodline territory?


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Efreeti Bloodline wrote:
Efreeti Form (Su): At 9th level, you gain the ability to assume the form of an efreeti once per day. This acts like the spell giant form I, except you only use it to become an efreeti and its duration is 1 round per level. While in this form, you also gain an efreeti's heat ability.

That last bit looks to me like they actually did think about "Which other efreeti abilities should they get that aren't granted in giant form?" So I wouldn't call the omission of flight an oversight.

Maybe they didn't want to infringe on Djinni bloodline territory?

Perhaps, or they made the incorrect assumption that flight would come with the form. The Djinni bloodline's 9th shape change doesn't provide flight either, and just turns you into an actual whirlwind (without really even defining what that actually means).


Maybe. Or maybe they decided that they didn't want to grant flight as a 9th level bloodline power for efreeti bloodline sorcerers. Who can say?

As for djinni sorcerers, they get forever flight at 15th level. The whirlwind ability, however, is already defined in the Bestiary's Universal Monster Rules section, so that at least has solid ground (yes, I meant to do that).


If you don't get flight because Giant Form doesn't specifically grant flight, then that means you count as a humanoid since Giant Form I specifically states that you take the form of a Large humanoid. Why does that matter?

ENLARGE PERSON, SON! THREATEN THE WHOLE BATTLEFIELD! Who cares if can't fly when you can REACH UP AND BRING THE WHOLE SKY TO YOU???

Jokes aside, I would agree that you don't get a fly speed because Giant Form II specifically calls out that you get a swim speed, if the form you take has one. I guess you just have to burn a spell slot on casting Fly :-/


Xaimum Mafire wrote:

If you don't get flight because Giant Form doesn't specifically grant flight, then that means you count as a humanoid since Giant Form I specifically states that you take the form of a Large humanoid. Why does that matter?

ENLARGE PERSON, SON!

Ok, first, polymorph spells never change your creature type, and second, "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell." CRB pg. 212

CraziFuzzy wrote:
With the ability based on Giant Form I, however, i would not get the great Fly 40 ft. (perfect), because Giant Form, rightly so, doesn't grant flight (as there aren't generally any flying giants).

If only there was a spell that allowed Sorcerers to fly!


Alternatively, pick the Phoenix bloodline next time, and get free wings, FOREVER, at 9th level!

Plus you can Fireball your team to heal them. I mean, what's not to love about this?


Derklord wrote:
Ok, first, polymorph spells never change your creature type, and second, "other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell." [smaller]CRB pg. 212

Boo, that's lame.


JDLPF wrote:

Alternatively, pick the Phoenix bloodline next time, and get free wings, FOREVER, at 9th level!

Plus you can Fireball your team to heal them. I mean, what's not to love about this?

Huh. Wonder how that works with ongoing damage, such as with spontaneous immolation?

And wall of fire just got interesting.


Xaimum Mafire wrote:
Boo, that's lame.

IF with "lame" you mean "an important balancing factor", than yes.

blahpers wrote:

Huh. Wonder how that works with ongoing damage, such as with spontaneous immolation?

And wall of fire just got interesting.

Well, Spontaneous Immolation isn't ongoing damage, it has a duration of instantaneous - the damage from burning isn't part of the spell. Wall of Fire turns into a Wall of Healing, yes. With enough time, Campfire Wall also allow neigh infinite healing at a lower spell level.

Shame the healing is halfed compared to the original damage, although spells like Burning Arc are still vastly better than most other infight healing. Chains of Fire is even your own personal Channel Energy!

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