Eww... (Book 4, Silver Star, SPOILERS)


Hell's Rebels


So... I'll try to be as delicate add possible here.

Nastiel is Hetamon Haace's mother. Hetamon has 4 negative levels specifically caused by his mother. Nastiel drains levels by using her passion ability, which we'll assume for sake of sanity means kissing... not willing to entertain any other alternatives. I'll let the audience do that math here.

In conclusion, eww. Like not cool. I get she's a half-demon but still.

I mean I'm already going to cut Nastiel anyway (or maybe reuse her in another context).

I mean it's no Hook Mountain Massacre but still.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My stock response to these types of criticisms is:

What do you think they were doing in the Temple of Elemental Evil?

I think this just makes the villains more villainous. And you have to go digging around for it - I never noticed this before. It's also on theme with our boy Barzillai.

Good job Paizo.


Yakman wrote:

My stock response to these types of criticisms is:

What do you think they were doing in the Temple of Elemental Evil?

I think this just makes the villains more villainous. And you have to go digging around for it - I never noticed this before. It's also on theme with our boy Barzillai.

Good job Paizo.

This isn't a criticism. Just a horrible revelation I had. It's completely in character, unfortunately.

I can neither confirm or deny my presence and participation in the Temple of Elemental Evil.

I don't think it takes digging, just putting two and two together. After all it's written right in the AP. That said I have read through the book a dozen times and just now caught it.

Shadow Lodge

Artofregicide wrote:
I don't think it takes digging, just putting two and two together. After all it's written right in the AP. That said I have read through the book a dozen times and just now caught it.

Players, who don't have the book in front of them, would have to do a bit of digging. First, they'd have to figure out that Hetamon has negative levels. He could tell them, but probably won't. While he can't cast restoration himself, he can obtain one through the rebellion's black markets easily enough. Or they could figure it out with Heal checks or magic - what kind of magic escapes me at the moment, but there must be some spell. The GM could call for Heal checks but has no reason to do so.

Once the players know he has negative levels they have to know and care to figure out how he got them. There's no particular reason to - a negative level is a negative level, and they all respond to the same magic, so origin is irrelevant. If they do want to know, they have to ask him, divine the answer, or piece it together through Knowledge checks.

All of which is digging.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:


Players, who don't have the book in front of them, would have to do a bit of digging. First, they'd have to figure out that Hetamon has negative levels. He could tell them, but probably won't. While he can't cast restoration himself, he can obtain one through the rebellion's black markets easily enough. Or they could figure it out with Heal checks or magic - what kind of magic escapes me at the moment, but there must be some spell. The GM could call for Heal checks but has no reason to do so.

Once the players know he has negative levels they have to know and care to figure out how he got them. There's no particular reason to - a negative level is a negative level, and they all respond to the same magic, so origin is irrelevant. If they do want to know, they have to ask him, divine the answer, or piece it together through Knowledge checks.

All of which is digging.

I meant it wasn't digging for me, as the GM. And to be fair, I didn't pick up on it until just recently, so it's not that obvious.

I'd disagree that my PC's wouldn't know what negative levels are just by sight. At this point they'd be about 10-11th level, and have fought vampires, come back from the dead, etc. And as soon as a character makes successful knowledge check on Nastiel and realize she's a half-succubus, out of character they'll know about her passion ability.

Also why would Hetamon go out of his way to hide his negative levels when the PC's could potentially remove them then and there? I guess if he was embarrassed or something. As written the negative levels aren't permanent yet, so 4,000 gp of diamond dust wouldn't be required, but honestly I don't know why they aren't permanent- the book implies he's been captured for a while.

Sovereign Court

Forget OOC, once they make a high enough Knowledge (planes) the characters will absolutely know what she can do. Couple that with a similar Heal DC I'd say 15+ her CR and they should put 2 and 2 together. And really, that's not at all that scandalous for demons, there is Socothbenoth, lover and brother of Nocticula.

--Lip-Vrock


King of Vrock wrote:

Forget OOC, once they make a high enough Knowledge (planes) the characters will absolutely know what she can do. Couple that with a similar Heal DC I'd say 15+ her CR and they should put 2 and 2 together. And really, that's not at all that scandalous for demons, there is Socothbenoth, lover and brother of Nocticula.

--Lip-Vrock

It's actually somewhat on theme for the AP in general... personally I'm hoping my PC's get the chance to delve into Barzillai's truly disturbed psyche.

I am repurposing the Silver Star but may keep Nastiel as a wildcard, possibly for if I ever run book 5. I don't know if I'll keep the... "passionate acts" between her and Hetamon though.


The succubus energy drain can be used on an unwilling victim who is grappled. Which I believe Hetamon is (or otherwise restrained.) So he may not have been a cooperative participant. Still grotesque. But Natsiel intends to convert one of her dead hags into a witchfire and sell Hetamon to the Barzillai where he will become a host for a hellswarm host and grant Barzillai 40 AP. All three of which are pretty awful. Of course she could have dominated or charmed him to make him cooperative...

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Hell's Rebels / Eww... (Book 4, Silver Star, SPOILERS) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Hell's Rebels