Suggestions for mildly optimized UMonk / Eldritch Scoundrel


Advice


My Monster Tactician has been basically doing all the heavy lifting in CoCT (party is usually just me, the very unoptimized URogue Charlatan, and a Mesmerist ; Life Oracle has barely showed up and Vivisectionist can't usually make our dates). It's been fun but thinking about interesting backup characters. I've wanted to play a Monk and also an arcane caster, and thought this would be an interesting mix. We are about to hit level 4 so assume the build starts from there. I'm choosing Human, 15 point buy but feel free to change my mind if you think it would be more fun or flavorful.

STR 10
DEX 17 (15+2)
CON 12
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 7

UMonk 1: Dodge, Weapon Focus (Kama), Piranha Strike
URogue 1
URogue 2: Crane Style
URogue 3: Finesse Weapon: Kama
URogue 4 (if I get there): Accomplished Sneak Attacker, Dazzling Display (B)

Planning on flanking with the other Rogue if possible (although tricky since heretofore I've been the main frontliner), using Crane Style and Mage Armor to bounce between 21 AC and 25 AC.

Reduce Person, Grease, (Charm Person) and Mage Armor were my planned L1 spells, and L2 really not sure.

Again, any suggestions or alternative builds that you think would be equally interesting, feel free to suggest.


Why a kama? A UMonk can is proficient and can flurry with any monk weapon and there are much better ones out there. Start with the waveblade as a straight upgrade for example.

Accomplished sneak attacker will give you nothing unless you take more levels in a class without sneak attack. It's probably more useful to take something like extra rogue trick (Ninja trick: vanishing trick) to be able to vanish in an instant, or to get a defensive feat to help you survive as a frontliner.

Charm person is one of those spells which you think will be useful more often than it actually is. I've been there. Also your Cha is low enough that you're not going to be winning opposed Cha checks to convince a charmed creature to do things it normally wouldn't. Try silent image for out of combat goodness, or maybe monkey fish. Though you are a spellbook-using character and can pick up a lot of spells if you get a little gold and some time in a city, so you can probably get more than the minimum 2/level during play.


avr wrote:

Why a kama? A UMonk can is proficient and can flurry with any monk weapon and there are much better ones out there. Start with the waveblade as a straight upgrade for example.

why not just pick unarmed strike?

its a weapon that can be used with weapon finesse and if you keep up the monk levels it would get better and better. also work well with crane style and other monk things you take.


@avr, I didn't want to burn a feat on waveblade proficiency, although could swap Weapon Focus for EWP. Also, since Eldritch Scoundrel's sneak attack progression is slower than standard URogue, Accomplished Sneak Attacker does work (I'm at 2d6 with this combination when straight URogue would be at 3d6, and level 7 he'll be 4d6 and I'll still be a d6 behind). Vanishing Trick was my other thought. Charm Person...yeah some DMs don't think about the opposing checks, but my current DM might. Right now our party gold is SUPER low, but I'll check out those spells.

@zza ni, I thought about unarmed strike but DR/slashing is more common than DR/bludgeoning if I'm not mistaken, and I can buy cold iron or silver kamas but don't think I can get silver or cold iron handwraps. I honestly just planned on Monk to be a 1 level dip for flurry and some other benefits.


You don't need to burn a feat. You're an unchained monk.

UMonk weapon proficiency wrote:
Monks are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, short sword, shortspear, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear, and any weapon with the monk special weapon quality.

Tho' I forgot the eldritch scoundrel's reduced sneak attack, true.

Handwraps do work with special materials if you want to go that route:

handwraps wrote:
Many unarmed fighters wrap their hands in cloth to minimize injuries to their fists. Some martial artists also weave small coins or metal bars into their handwraps, adding special material effects as well. Handwraps don’t alter the damage a character’s unarmed attacks deal. However, masterwork handwraps can be enchanted as weapons, providing their benefits on unarmed attacks the character makes with her hands. A character can’t benefit from both handwraps and other items that provide enhancement bonuses or weapon special abilities (such as an amulet of mighty fists) on the same attack.


I think there was an errata on Waveblades, because the electronic copy I found says they are monk weapons, but PCGen and Pathbuilder both confirm nonproficiency, and I saw a thread somewhere else that says they're just close weapons, not monk weapons.

But good to know I can just put a cold iron and silver coin in my handwrap and go for it. Thanks!

Edit: Yeah that's what I thought. Looks like it hinges on it not being listed under the Monk Fighter Weapon Group despite it having it in the description. Honestly it's probably good enough for me and the DM, so yeah would do a Waveblade for sure with handwraps as backup. Cheers.


Archives of Nethys agrees with d20pfsrd and is the official site; PCGen and Pathbuilder aren't official that I know of.

I suspect the waveblade thing goes like this: It's not in the Fighter weapon group named Monk, just the weapon group named Close. However, UMonks only go by the monk weapon quality, not by the fighter weapon group, and waveblades do have that.


monk (not unchained) is not proficient with all monk weapons (there is even a faq about it) the unchained monk how ever - is.


avr wrote:
I suspect the waveblade thing goes like this: It's not in the Fighter weapon group named Monk, just the weapon group named Close. However, UMonks only go by the monk weapon quality, not by the fighter weapon group, and waveblades do have that.

This is correct. They do have the monk special property (which classifies them as a "monk weapon" according to the CRB), but they are not in the monk weapon group, but only in the close weapon group. Which means you could not select it with Ascetic Style, but unMonk does have proficiency with it.

Ther misconception comes from people misapplying the term "monk weapon" to mean "weapon in the monk weapon group", but the CRB actually has an index entry for the term "monk weapon" which leads to the description of the monk special weapon quality, said description also uses the term.

For a character with a single level of unMonk, waveblade is the best finessable monk weapon - two damage types, the highest base damage you can get on a finessable monk weapon, and the best crit stats. Unarmed with handwraps is nice if you want to use TWF, but that's rather redundant with Flurry.

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