Amric |
I am about to hit 5th level and have read that is all I should invest in the class and that I should multi class.
Does the switch to another class over come the loss of precise damage I get from levels and the loss of AC bumps from nimble?
I appreciate any of your insight, I did look up guides and other information on the class but most of the information is old.
MrCharisma |
Depends what you want from your class.
Going Investigator would give you a seperate pool of precision damage and extracts (provided you have some INT).
Going Paladin would give you crazy good defences and some good spell-casting.
Going Bard would give you a LOT of utility, and although it wouldn't buff your own damage as much it will buff the entire team's damage (which is usually better).
Of course going full Swashbuckler isn't bad either, it's just that most of what it gives you is higher numbers.
(And I'm sure there are other good options, that's just a few off the top of my head).
EDIT: If you want a more meaningful answer than the one I just gave you might have to post your build so far and what you want this character to be like.
avr |
More swashbuckler gives you +1.2 damage per level, +0.25 combat feats per level, +0.2 AC per level, full BAB (& +0.2/level attack bonus on top) and one good save. You can do better than that though exactly what gives you the most depends on what you have right now and how frequently you have a round to buff before combat in your game.
avr |
Assuming standard issue dex-to-damage swashbuckler not going for any combat maneuver with a round to buff maybe 50% of the time, then I might suggest urban bloodrager (arcane bloodline). You get +2 attack/damage/AC/reflex right off the bat from bloodrage. You can buff further with a wand when you have the time, drop it after use and have your bloodline familiar pick it up and scamper off with it to avoid losing it. As you go up levels the buffs from bloodrage get better fast with the arcane bloodline.
zza ni |
did you perhaps mix swashbuckler with it's parent class - gunslinger ? (swashbuckler is hybrid of gunslinger and fighter).
i didn't see a lot of opinions that one should stop swashbuckler at 5. but a lot and a lot of them for gunslinger (once he get to add damage to his gun).
a swashbuckler who reach level 11 can take signature deed for his wounding deed. that alone is worth going all the way to level 11 (that and the +1 to damage per level).
Cavall |
To answer your actual question, yes there is a difference between class levels and character levels.
The abilities you mentioned would only go up based on class levels, total levels in that class, as opposed to character levels, total levels of all classes.
I think that the swashbuckler is fine past 5th level. Targeted strike and bleeding wound are great abilities.
If you're enjoying the character then keep going.
My wife played one to 16. Targetted strike and the ability to move through enemies perfectly allowed total battlefield control.
Also, remember, if you multiclass you won't keep keep getting your favoured class bonus.
pauljathome |
did you perhaps mix swashbuckler with it's parent class - gunslinger ? (swashbuckler is hybrid of gunslinger and fighter).
i didn't see a lot of opinions that one should stop swashbuckler at 5. but a lot and a lot of them for gunslinger (once he get to add damage to his gun).
No, he's right. Lots of people take 1 level of swashbuckler (especially the Inspired Blade) or 5 levels (where you get the lovely, lovey swashbuckler weapon training). I've done both myself.
Going on as a pure swashbuckler is definitely quite viable, but branching into various other classes or prestige classes is ALSO quite viable at that point.
The one level dip into a dex based Barbarian/Bloodrager is hard to beat. Fast movement, dex rage is a powerful incentive. But, depending on character build, character motivations, and group needs there are LOTS and LOTS of good alternatives.
Derklord |
As MrCharisma said it, it depends on what you want. It also heavily depends on the campaign.
In theory, Swashbuckler is a very weak class, easily one of the weakest in the game. In practice, the the Swashbuckler is good at what he does, but that's just a small part of the game. If your campaign mostly includes this small portion, it can feel like a strong class. Agains a low number of enemies that nicely do nothing but attack in melee, he's strong. What happens when the enemy is flying or invisible? The Swashbuckler is useless then. What happens when there are a lot of enemies (or the enemies have a lot of attacks per round)? The panache won't last long if he uses OP&R multiple times per round. What happens when the enemies are ranged combatants? He needs to walk up to them, make a single attack, and wait a turn while under enemy fire (OP&R only works against melee) before he can full attack. Even worse when there's difficult terrain in the way. What happens when the enemies enforce multiple saving throws per round? After the first one, Charmed Life is gone and with weak base saves for both Fort and Will, the Swashbuckler is very likely to fail.
When it comes to non-combat challenges, it doesn't look much better - 4+int skills per level (and you can't invest much in int), and the Derring-Do deed is the only non-combat class features (plus Swashbuckler’s Edge at 15th level).
Here's why that's very relevant for the topic: The later Swashbuckler levels increase this. Swashbuckler has the weakest base saves a PC class can have and Charmed Life is rather weak, so when one encounters more and more magical enemies (as is usually the norm at increased levels), the Swashbuckler's weak anti-magic defense becomes more prominent. Likewise, the number of flying, invisible, or otherwise magically protected enemies usually increase as levels get higher, and thus the Swashbuckler's lack of in-class answers become more of a problem.
As mentioned above, if your campaign is how Cavall's one apparently was, and almost very enemy is nonmagical and on the same z-axis, more damage may be all you care for, so staying in class is perfectly fine, although you might still think about dipping into Barbarian/Bloodrager or Virtuous Bravo.
Arachnofiend |
If you're playing a swashbuckler "as intended" (Dex-To-Damage 1h weapon not using the other hand for anything other than a buckler) then your damage is going to fall behind very quickly if you leave the class for something that doesn't have precise strike. The damage bonuses you get from other classes are intrinsically less valuable for your playstyle because precise strike is designed to make a non-viable martial style viable.
As such Swashbuckler is something you either take 1 level in or go all the way with, IMO. Derklord explained quite well the weaknesses of the class that prevent most people from going further than that first level, though I suspect if your campaign is the type where these weaknesses will be on display you would have gotten dunked on by color spray and gotten sick of the character before now.
MerlinCross |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Right I have a swashbuckler player now so I should go tell them to redo their entire build or go mulitclass because that's the only way you can play this "class".
I'll kill them off so they can do it right and play Bloodrager.
No wait this is Pathfinder Community. I'll tell them to roll up Wizard next time.
Leitner |
Swashbuckler is my personal favorite class. And yeah, from a strict hardcore optimization standpoint that the forums tend to promote you would likely be better off swapping to another class after level 5.
But staying in the class is definitely not bad either. If your goal is to be tanky then you could absolutely do worse than improving your nimble AC or getting that awesome dizzying defense deed.
Matthew Downie |
If you're playing a swashbuckler "as intended" (Dex-To-Damage 1h weapon not using the other hand for anything other than a buckler) then your damage is going to fall behind very quickly if you leave the class for something that doesn't have precise strike. The damage bonuses you get from other classes are intrinsically less valuable for your playstyle because precise strike is designed to make a non-viable martial style viable.
Is that true? Some things wouldn't help (such as anything based around giving you Strength bonuses), but I'd have thought Smite Evil damage, Sneak damage, self-buffs and so on, would stack perfectly well with precise strike damage and result in something comparable to a pure Swashbuckler.
Cavall |
I think swashbucklers actually do better against large numbers rather than just solo. Their bonuses to acrobatics and high strike damage allows them to get behind foes and take out vulnerable opponents quickly and set up others for flanks for those that do not go down in a round.
If you just see combat as approaching from one angle head on, you're not using it well.
With some feat investments and focus you can actually turn them into aoe fear machines, capable of affecting targets in air or on land with total panic. A little research goes a long way into making them shine.
Matthew Downie |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Right I have a swashbuckler player now so I should go tell them to redo their entire build or go mulitclass because that's the only way you can play this "class".
I'll kill them off so they can do it right and play Bloodrager.
No wait this is Pathfinder Community. I'll tell them to roll up Wizard next time.
Man, I hate the way the Pathfinder Community automatically piles on to dismiss classes like the Swashbuckler. I mean, look at all the hate from this thread:
Of course going full Swashbuckler isn't bad either
I played a straight swashbuckler and it was fine on damage.
I think that the swashbuckler is fine past 5th level.
Going on as a pure swashbuckler is definitely quite viable
staying in class is perfectly fine
Arachnofiend |
Arachnofiend wrote:If you're playing a swashbuckler "as intended" (Dex-To-Damage 1h weapon not using the other hand for anything other than a buckler) then your damage is going to fall behind very quickly if you leave the class for something that doesn't have precise strike. The damage bonuses you get from other classes are intrinsically less valuable for your playstyle because precise strike is designed to make a non-viable martial style viable.Is that true? Some things wouldn't help (such as anything based around giving you Strength bonuses), but I'd have thought Smite Evil damage, Sneak damage, self-buffs and so on, would stack perfectly well with precise strike damage and result in something comparable to a pure Swashbuckler.
Smite Evil is a once-per-session bonus (you won't get multiple smites until very late if you're only going into Paladin at 6th level) intended to push the Paladin above the curve against particularly important foes. When it isn't active your damage is gonna suck. Paladin damage is competitive because 2H Power Attack does enough by itself with no further bonuses and Smite just compounds that.
Sneak Attack would work... starting at character level 9 when you get debilitating injury. Before then you're just dumping BAB for no reason. The Rogue chassis isn't that much better than the Swashbuckler either so I'm not sure why you would go for this as your alternative.
ShroudedInLight |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Worth noting, a swashbuckler being a "weak" class only matters if you're in a game of rocket-tag at your table. If your party is not mix-maxed to the brim or competing heavily to have the highest numbers it will do just fine from 1 to 20 without multiclassing. Unless people are being jerks and not helping their frontliners fly, teleport, or highlight dangerous foes so they can smash them.
However, after this campaign any other swashbuckler you play will feel exactly the same as this one mechanically. Thats the real weakness, oh you can swap around personalities and such but the class has no meaningful choices to make during construction beyond your standard selection of 10 feats, magical equipment, and skill distribution. You get the same static abilities everytime, and the archetypes do nothing to relieve this except swap out one set of static abilities for another. Your first swashbuckler is a fun time, your second is pretty dull. Compare this to a class like the Rogue, that gets to at least select its Rogue Talents so every rogue can be a bit different.
That is where multiclassing becomes intriguing, because most of the Swashbuckler's power is distributed up front. Jumping ship into another class with full BAB is a really interesting choice then, since you get the benefits from having all the strengths of Swashbuckler (Swift action intimidates, +2 initiative, free weapon finesse, +6! damage to all attacks with specific weapons before power attack, a free combat feat, +1 to AC, 3/day save boosts, improved critical with a huge selection of weapons) while then also being able to choose a second class. This second class augments your abilities, not only from being able to choose abilities within that class but also from being able to choose a second class.
A lot of other classes work well with these starting perks, though you always need to judge choosing another class if the game goes to 20 because you're going to be missing out on the back quarter of abilities with 5 levels into Swashbuckler. Scaled Fist Monks are pretty cool dudes who can leverage your charisma into armor, and the Waveblade is an 18-20 slashing/piercing weapon that can be flurried! Slayers are another excellent choice as they provide you with a large bonus to your attack rolls over your career along with slayer talents and sneak attack. Speaking of the Waveblade, Brawlers can also flurry with it since its a close weapon, and then you have martial flexibility to play around with during combat!
Heck, you can even try to look into prestige classes!
Leitner |
I don't think swashbuckler is necessarily required to feel the same every build. True you'll always be a light armored dex based fighter, and you don't get to pick between your deeds as you level up, but you can still make some pretty distinctive builds with your feat selection.
My personal favorite build is a defensive fighting halfling using cautious fighting, blundering defense, etc. Can combine it with crane style or something like dizzying defense for some extreme values.
That feels a lot different than one using bladed brush and combat reflexes as well as various area control feats for the classic combat patrol type character. Or something like a flying blade for thrown daggers and solid switch hitting potential. Or perhaps a rostland bravo maybe with swordlord prestige class into a classic dazzling display duelist type character.
Obviously they don't have as much versatility as say a fighter. But you have a lot of build room in the light armored dex based fighting niche.
ShroudedInLight |
I don't think swashbuckler is necessarily required to feel the same every build. True you'll always be a light armored dex based fighter, and you don't get to pick between your deeds as you level up, but you can still make some pretty distinctive builds with your feat selection.
I'm afraid I disagree, but I tend to hunt down experiences in RPGs and check them off my list when I'm done. I'd argue that while different builds can be done with the Swashbuckler the amount you have to change around from one swashbuckler to another is drastically less than from another class. So, rather than claiming that all swashbucklers are the same I'd like to revise my position to: "the swashbuckler, alongside the gunslinger and shifter, have the fewest choices to make during their progression and this can lead to a stale experience"
This is why dipping the swashbuckler is so interesting, because its frontloaded chassis and stale end-game allow for some really neat choices.
deuxhero |
Unchained Rogue 3/Slayer X works out better for what the Swashbuckler does.
1: Dex to damage is better
2: You get more skill points and class skills, enabling effective out of combat
3: You can use medium armor for more AC, since the only thing you lose is Evasion. Even if you want to keep that, it enables wearing a mithral breastplate when you can afford one
4: Right selection of slayer talents and rogue tricks (you can get more through extra trick feat) lets you debuff with your sneak attacks or let you tear the enemy in two faster. Many big monsters have minimal dex, so Pressure Points can get nasty if you have other sources of ability damage to stack it with.
5: Two good saves
6: Ranger fighting style from slayer talents gives pre-requisite free feats
Derklord |
Worth noting, a swashbuckler being a "weak" class only matters if you're in a game of rocket-tag at your table. If your party is not mix-maxed to the brim or competing heavily to have the highest numbers it will do just fine from 1 to 20 without multiclassing. Unless people are being jerks and not helping their frontliners fly, teleport, or highlight dangerous foes so they can smash them.
Needing help from your party members every time an enemy is a tad non-vanilla because you can't do anything on your own against them can very easily feel bad, too. It also doesn't reliably work for PFS, or for every home group (not all abilities cna be used on others), and it forces the other players to do something different from what they might want to do just because your character isn't really fit to be an adventurer. It's also rather hard for other party members to shore up the Swashbucklers weak saves, which is one of the biggest problem.
Being overshadowed is a real thing, and it can happen at all levels of optimization, even between first time players who've never read any guides or forum posts. Which is exactly why I so vocal about acknowledging the classes weaknesses.
Thanks to the way APs are designed (with crappy classes in mind), the GM's power to adjust the difficulty and types of challenges, and the raw power of the stronger classes (which can compensate for other classes weaknesses), in a normal party, every PC class in the game is viable from 1-20, presuming you have some idea what you're doing. Even cMonk and cRogue, although you might need to optimize harder to not feel completely like the proverbial millstone around the party's neck.
At the same time, one shouldn't immediately dismiss multiclassing/dipping on the grounds of Paizo being totally awesome and all classes being perfectly balanced and fine, because they really aren't.
Without knowing the other players, the other PCs, and the campaign, it's absolutely impossible to say whether "staying in the class is definitely not bad either", as Leitner put it.
I think swashbucklers actually do better against large numbers rather than just solo. Their bonuses to acrobatics and high strike damage allows them to get behind foes and take out vulnerable opponents quickly and set up others for flanks for those that do not go down in a round.
So we're presuming a boss with multiple mooks, those mooks not being strong enough to kill the Swashbuckler so conveniently going into melee range with them, their CMD being low enough for our acrobatics check, enough space to go around the enemies, but not enough space overhead so that a flying once can charge over the enemie's heads? Well, in that situation... I'd still rather have an archer, who can full attack on the first turn as well.
I am 600% sure he was sarcastic, friend.
If it was, then it was an utterly failed attempt at sarcasm (or misuse of, if you prefer) - as Matthew Downie pointed out, there was absolutely no base for a sarcastic remark in that direction. To be honest, it sounds a lot like trolling to me.
@deuxhero: The OP already has five levels in Swashbuckler.
Cavall |
Well yes I AM presuming that every fight doesnt start with single collosal flying NPCs. If it did, then I'd feel bad for the archer since that character doesnt have a mechanic to at least try to avoid attacks from this apparently omnipotent Npc unlike the swashbuckler anyways. Its a class that is dex based and can add extra dice to acrobatics at the same time as moving full speed through enemies spaces. Hell, if I remember right my wife's character had a 10 foot vertical jump she didnt even have to roll for, because she could simply take 10 on it combined with her horizonatal leaps allowed her to basically jump over difficult terrain and obstacles without even picking up a die.
Frankly most fights ARE some weaker enemies and a tougher one, and flying isn't that common as to be a game ender every fight. If it was, the wizard would be best suited to casting flight on the swashbuckler to counter that, since casting flight on oneself against opponents who can fly doesnt seem productive anyways.
But I'd still rather take the character with total battlefield control on turn one vs an archer anyways. You'll get more than one attack a turn when they are no longer armed and running from you. Since its swift action, it's a better use of a turn.
Again, people think this class is weak when it's got some amazing options that can really set the battle up. I already mentioned how some time ago (year and a bit?) I showed how a swashbuckler can straight up break most games by low mid levels. We can't go by what a guide tells us are the best options since all guides are obsolete with every book release, and certain concepts are just buried in the white room scenarios of "but what if" that frankly just don't come up that much. Even against flying single large target creatures in open fields a swashbuckler has options, rare as such fights are. They aren't sitting on their hands and waiting. The notion is ridiculous. At the very least (the bare minimum least) they can also pick up a bow and use it as a full dex and BAB character, so even at this sub par option they are contributing.
The concept that one has to presume the fight is an airborne target in an open area already flying with a massive cmd FIRST and that all others are the exception is just not true. Even if it was? The swashbuckler could make that roll to get around it for flanking while moving at full speed.
I will never understand the need to create white room scenarios that simply are the minority in order to pigeonhole martials.
MrCharisma |
It's worth noting that a swashbuckler is (usually) a dex-based character with full BAB and martial weapon proficiency. This means that with zero feat investment they should be able to pull out a longbow and reliably do some damage (low damagez but reliable).
What I'm getting at is that they do have other options when their main schtick doesn't work.
Would a dedicated archer be better? Probably, but then archery is the highest DPR combat method in this game, while also being (in my opinion) the most boring. Choosing a non-optimal class is fine if it's still functional, especially if it lets you make meaningful decisions.
Swashbuckler saves are junk though, no defence from me on that one.
Cavall |
Well. The minor defense of being charmed helps, since they make decent party faces and will have intimidate too they would do well with a 16 charisma or so. That's +3 to a roll. Not ideal but take what ya get. They aren't great for saves, agreed.
Edit:
This got me thinking
given free feats and BAB and counting as fighters... you could take the martial focus feat and then look into going towards spell cut....
With a huge BAB and poor saves, this may actually be worth the investment! This would also be great as your get cut from air, making archery builds next to useless against you, given you can block at full BAB each attack and they have diminished returns.
It's a long road and basically only worth it if you get extra feats to play with (and making training to catch up on those feats almost a definite) but yeah, near immunity to archers and a way to simply whack will saves into the ground? I'll take it.
Derklord |
Well yes I AM presuming that every fight doesnt start with single collosal flying NPCs.
I was talking about insufficient space for a PC to fly over the mooks and attack the important opponents, because that's just plain better for taking out vulnerable opponents than the what the Swashbuckler does.
flying isn't that common
41% of all monsters (CR 1+) have a fly speed. It's a bit lower at early levels, but by CR 5, you're over 30%. The numbers drop to about 27% and ~17% respectively when including NPCs. That's going by different enemies, I don't have any data on how often which enemies are used in APs/modules/PFS. As I said, it depends heavily on the campaign.
It's worth noting that a swashbuckler is (usually) a dex-based character with full BAB and martial weapon proficiency. This means that with zero feat investment they should be able to pull out a longbow and reliably do some damage (low damagez but reliable).
With no strengh bonus thanks to dex-to-damage feats, and Precice Strike only working in melee, we're talking about doing 1d8 damage per shot. That's like when your 5-year-old kid helps you out with their little plastic shovel when you're setting a new patch in your garden. It's technically a contribution, but it's more cute than saving you any work, and you have to watch them so they don't hurt themself.
Would a dedicated archer be better? Probably, but then archery is the highest DPR combat method in this game
That's not actually true, it's just failry easy and reliable. I've found that when comparing normal builds, some pounce builds (Gorum's Swordmandship-Barbarian or natural attack based) are on top.
Choosing a non-optimal class is fine if it's still functional, especially if it lets you make meaningful decisions.
That's about the entire point of my posts in this thread, with emphasis on the "if".
I'm sorry if I sound overly hostile towards/dismissive of the Swashbuckler, that's not my intend. I just want to help people make an informed decision (bit of a lost art nowadays...), and I feel that people unreservedly saying Swashbuckler was fine goes against that. In a campaign with plenty of will and/or fortitude saves (I'm thinking Carrion Crown AP), for instance, someone playing a Swashbuckler without shoring up the weaknesses (due to being told the class was fine) could very easily lead to frustration, no min-maxing or anything like that required. That's why I try to present a balanced viewpoint that isn't just based on one campaign or something.
Cavall |
Yeah I'll take the multiple (more than one) full campaigns I've seen them in over a white room theory with no campaigns at all any day.
While % of flying creatures is one thing, they are in no way at all a measurement of a campaign, because it suggests that once you fight a single elf you'll never fight one again, as with any other race with actual NPCs in a campaign setting. So the viewpoint isn't actually balanced its fundamentally flawed from the start. % of choice means little when numbers of that choice are obviously skewed during actual non white room theory game play. If you lack the actual data that matters, its it isn't worth much for the data that doesn't.
Leitner |
% of creatures with a fly speed isn't necessarily relevant either. The only time you'll really have a problem is if the creature has both flying and ranged capabilities. A random dire bat or something isn't going to be sitting 30 feet away from you. I suppose technically it could, but then you are just mutually ignoring each other.
Having played a swashbuckler going up against flying ranged enemies, I'd agree it is annoying. But precise strike still works out to a range of 30 feet. Having some throwing daggers can still get you through some fights. Having a succubus firing at you from 100 feet up in the air with a longbow would obviously be obnoxious, but for that you have the wizard, a potion of fly, or at higher levels I suppose celestial armor to fall back on.
As for the swashbucklers saves, yeah, they could definitely be better. If I could make one change to the swashbuckler it would definitely be to make charmed life passive like the paladin. I know a lot of people prefer the virtuous bravo over the swashbuckler and I think the saves are a big reason why. Heck, maybe you can convince your GM to make charmed life passive? If not there is always twist away or Irrepressible to try and shore up your weaker saves.
Derklord |
It's not just flying enemies, though, but also ranged enemies not reachable - e.g. on a barricade.
But precise strike still works out to a range of 30 feet.
Ah, right, misremembered that, sorry. Throwing one shortspear per round is at least a bit better, I guess? Not much though, sadly. I wich there was at least a weapon with 30ft range increment, but unless I'm missing something, shortspear or starknife, with 20ft each, are the maximum.
I know a lot of people prefer the virtuous bravo over the swashbuckler and I think the saves are a big reason why.
Virtuous Bravo has indeed way better saves (both from perfect base saves, and Divine Grace), but the huge survivability boost from swift action LoH, and immunities (fear, diseases, charms), result in all around better defenses. Smite Evil + Divine Bond make up for loosing bonus feats and SWT (and you don't need to spend feats on Iron Will etc.). Despite having more stuff to spend free actions on, not needing Charmed Life actually improves the situation, because you don't need to choose btween different immediate actions. The 2+Int skill ranks per level are a bit annoying, but that's a small price to pay.
I call it "unchained Swashbuckler".Arachnofiend |
It's worth noting that a swashbuckler is (usually) a dex-based character with full BAB and martial weapon proficiency. This means that with zero feat investment they should be able to pull out a longbow and reliably do some damage (low damagez but reliable).
What I'm getting at is that they do have other options when their main schtick doesn't work.
Would a dedicated archer be better? Probably, but then archery is the highest DPR combat method in this game, while also being (in my opinion) the most boring. Choosing a non-optimal class is fine if it's still functional, especially if it lets you make meaningful decisions.
Swashbuckler saves are junk though, no defence from me on that one.
Erm, bows are awful without significant feat investment. The backup longbow ceases to be a useful contribution by about level three. Possibly even earlier.
ShroudedInLight |
VB gets Menacing Swordplay, Swashbuckler's Initiative, Parry and Riposte, AND precise strike? Thats so much better than my precious Daring Champion Cavalier T_T
Oh well, the Swashbuckler is still worth a dip...eh, I can't even really claim that anymore. The VB does the job better honestly unless you really can't stand the holyness/code of honor thing and desperately need to have 5th level expanded critical ranges.
Ugh, the swashbuckler and gunslinger still really raise my design hackles.
Derklord |
Javelins do exist Derklord and have a 30' range increment. They are one-handed piercing weapons.
Yes, but they're classified as ranged weapons, whereas Precice Strike says "She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her." Emphasis mine.
VB gets Menacing Swordplay, Swashbuckler's Initiative, Parry and Riposte, AND precise strike? Thats so much better than my precious Daring Champion Cavalier T_T
Don't forget Dodging Panache, which is rather awesome against enemies with pounce. You move out of range for their consequtive attacks, and as they already moved that round, they can't follow you with a 5-foot-step.
Firebug |
One deed that is typically underrated is the Bleeding Wound deed at 11. Not for the actual HP bleed, but as a free action after landing a hit you can add a 1 point Str/Con/Dex bleed at the cost of 2 panache. Expensive, but that Dex 10 dragon or 7 strength wizard is out of the fight pretty quickly. Or bleed Con and use hit and run tactics.
Signature Deed and you can add the HP bleed for free, tack on some other 'if enemy is bleeding' features and there could be some gold in that mine.
GeraintElberion |
The advantage with bleed is that if the enemy prove tougher than expected, they might waste actions and resources healing.
If not then they become less effective.
But that’s a pretty niche ability, really, for PCs.
Ability damage tend to make players freak out though, so it’s a cool trick for an NPC swashbuckler, especially as they don’t have to hoard their panache.
Cavall |
It is worth noting that an amulet of spirits (battle) would allow the swashbuckler to curse as a swift action someone suffering bleed damage and increase that number by 1 for 8 rounds.
That would be a severely shortened lifespan on someone with even a 16 in a stat. On a 7? Yeah it ain't pretty. You could stack it with a bleeding weapon, increasing both effects and if you're targeting something like con you could shed HP at a phenomenal rate with a little effort.
By itself it's great vs dumb animals or characters that can't figure out they need to heal (like dex damage on a raging barbarian), but doubling that amount is likely to send anyone into a panic.
ShroudedInLight |
Worth noting, a swashbuckler of Lamashtu can use her divine fighting style to also potentially stagger your bleeding foes fairly consistently at level 11. Though I'm sure most enemies can make a DC 21 Fort save pretty regularly by that point, at least they don't become immune for too long (only 1 round of immunity which I assume means you can try again on your next turn).