Addictions: Specifically Zerk


Rules Questions


I've been reviewing Drugs and Addiction recently and I was trying to wrap my head around the drug 'Zerk' (presumably a play on the word 'berserk')

My reading of addictions leads me to believe that you take the drug by injuring or injecting yourself with Zerk, then you receive the effects and the indicated ability damage at that time. In this case, for 1 hour you receive a +1 alchemical bonus to initiative and 1d2 Con damage (which can be healed normally). You also make a DC 18 Fort save to avoid a minor addiction to it. If you fail (or choose to become to become addicted), you also receive a +1d4 alchemical bonus to Strength as long as you are addicted (which requires two consecutive saves that may be attempted after one day without using Zerk).

The wording seems to be that you could have a +4 bonus to Strength basically forever. You don't ever have to take the drug again and just never pass the save to remove the addiction. I see nothing that says the addiction clearing is forced or occurs after time without the drug (and even if it did, consensus is that you can fail if you want).

Granted, a minor addiction gives a –2 Con penalty while you have it, but it seems that getting a +4 Strength bonus forever, and with a rare bonus type that will stack with almost any other Strength-enhancing effect, seems almost a no-brainer for any class that would use the drug at all. Even if you got a less desirable result on the Strength increase, if seems you just wait a day, clear the addiction (with minor effort), and try again until you get a 4 (25% chance). I see no point in even ever taking another dose (other than a +1 initiative for one hour or to suppress the addiction penalty to Con just before combat).

Am I reading this correctly, and any thoughts?


I haven't really looked at the rules for this case. But if you plan to take the drug once and never again, you are clearly not "addicted" to it. Trying to claim you are while forever avoiding the drug is just silly munchkinry.


Quote:

Minor Addiction

Type disease, variable; Save variable
Onset 1 day; Frequency 1/day
Effect –2 penalty to Con; Cure 2 consecutive saves

You've misread the rules on addiction, your addiction flares up every day, applying a cumulative -2 penalty to your con each time you fail. If succeed twice in a row, you're cured (and thus no longer gain a bonus to strength).


willuwontu wrote:


You've misread the rules on addiction, your addiction flares up every day, applying a cumulative -2 penalty to your con each time you fail. If succeed twice in a row, you're cured (and thus no longer gain a bonus to strength).

Thank you for the reply but I don't believe I've misread that part of the addiction.

Addiction wrote:
Each addiction causes a persistent penalty to ability scores, lasting for as long as the character has the disease.

I believe 'persistent' implies it persists as long as you're addicted, not that it is cumulative or stacks.

If it was the way you described, a normal person with even a minor addiction would basically be dead in 5 days (the penalty can't lower them below 1 but they'd be in a pretty sad state). Even for a moderate addiction, like an alcoholic, that would be pretty severe slide.


Pizza Lord wrote:

I believe 'persistent' implies it persists as long as you're addicted, not that it is cumulative or stacks.

If it was the way you described, a normal person with even a minor addiction would basically be dead in 5 days (the penalty can't lower them below 1 but they'd be in a pretty sad state). Even for a moderate addiction, like an alcoholic, that would be pretty severe slide.

That may be what's intended (as is the str bonus only lasting for the duration of the drug), but that's not how diseases work.

Disease Rules wrote:
Effect: This is the effect that the character suffers each time if he fails his saving throw against the affliction. Most afflictions cause ability damage or hit point damage. These effects are cumulative, but they can be cured normally. Other afflictions cause the creature to take penalties or other effects. These effects are sometimes cumulative, with the rest only affecting the creature if it failed its most recent save. Some afflictions have different effects after the first save is failed. These afflictions have an initial effect, which occurs when the first save is failed, and a secondary effect, when additional saves are failed, as noted in the text. Hit point and ability score damage caused by an affliction cannot be healed naturally while the affliction persists.

As written, it's a cumulative -2 each failed save, so just avoid getting addicted and you'll be fine. Otherwise, you'll be slightly sturdier than wet tissue paper.

This is why you don't do drugs kids.


Leitner wrote:
I haven't really looked at the rules for this case. But if you plan to take the drug once and never again, you are clearly not "addicted" to it. Trying to claim you are while forever avoiding the drug is just silly munchkinry.

While I don't disagree with the powergamer/munchkin statement, I think there are probably many cases of someone trying something 'just once' and it spiraling into addiction. Whether that be wanting to experience cocaine, do a little gambling or lottery playing, or even trying some stimulates just to 'help study for this one exam'.

I think there might be many cases of people who got addicted to alcohol or gambling and spend a significant amount of their lives avoiding it. Certainly the may have broken the addiction effects and may only be avoiding the temptation, but there's nothing unbelievable about even someone who wants to lose the addiction but failing to succeed at the check (which must be two consecutive successes). So they could be 'suffering' even without having partaken in a significant amount of time.

Mostly I am trying to wrap my mind around the logic behind this drug's effect, cost, and use. Even so, it's hardly a challenge to imbibe it once or even twice a week with little issue or cost for a persistent effect that would normally cost thousands of gold in a magic item (even with a Con penalty drawback) and that would be as a bonus type that didn't stack with most other such effects and went away in an antimagic field.


Frequency 1/day indicates that once per day you must save or suffer the effects, so yes it is potentially stacking -2 con per day.


Hmm, thanks for the replies. This means a character would need to at least take regular doses to suppress the addiction penalties. Much appreciated all.


Pizza Lord wrote:
If it was the way you described, a normal person with even a minor addiction would basically be dead in 5 days (the penalty can't lower them below 1 but they'd be in a pretty sad state). Even for a moderate addiction, like an alcoholic, that would be pretty severe slide.

While I agree this is unrealistic, it seems appropriate for a game intended for a broad audience.


Watery Soup wrote:


While I agree this is unrealistic, it seems appropriate for a game intended for a broad audience.

I seem to recall the rum rules in Skulls and Shackles were similarly deadly. Although a ship full of pirates running scared from their rum rations is a humorous image, my GM had to alter the rules so we didn't all drink ourselves to death in a few days.


I must have misread, I thought the DC to kick the addiction is what stacked, not the effects of withdrawal. Dying from lack of alcohol makes little sense to me...


Goblin_Priest wrote:
I must have misread, I thought the DC to kick the addiction is what stacked, not the effects of withdrawal. Dying from lack of alcohol makes little sense to me...

I mean, two consecutive saves cure you. And the DC for the save decreases by 2 each day you go with out the drug.


willuwontu wrote:
Goblin_Priest wrote:
I must have misread, I thought the DC to kick the addiction is what stacked, not the effects of withdrawal. ...
I mean, two consecutive saves cure you. And the DC for the save decreases by 2 each day you go with out the drug.

You are correct, Goblin_Priest, the addiction DC increases by 2 whenever you take another dose while the drug is still in your system (while you have ability damage from it, by the rules). So basically, it is one day if you took one ability damage, two if you have two ability damage, etc (or until you heal it).

The +2 per additional dose DC does go back down slowly per day of non-use, but the actual addiction DC does not go lower than the base DC save. So no, it doesn't actually decrease to where it's any easier, no matter how long you refrain from partaking.

Curing Addiction wrote:
This DC decreases by –2 for everyday the character does not make use of the drug, to a minimum of the drug’s base addiction DC.

Now that I look at it further, I am more convinced that the addiction penalty (in this case, the –2 Con penalty for minor addiction) does not stack per day. It is not damage and does not heal, it is just a persistent ability modifier (as long as you're addicted). As per the rules for modifiers (bonuses and penalties), it is from the same source and does not stack (damage would stack, but would also heal unless from a moderate or severe addiction). The fact that it is untyped makes no difference (penalties are almost universally untyped). It is from the same source (Zerk addiction). Two different addictions could stack, such as Zerk addiction and Desert Coffee addiction; then those two minor addiction penalties could apply together.

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