Are there any canonical good chromatic or evil metallic dragons?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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blahpers wrote:


Frankly, I'm a bit amazed that Mengkare was ever published, and I suspect that they didn't revisit Hermea very much specifically because the subject is very problematic for a lot of folks.

I'm not at all surprised it was published - one purpose of Golarion is to provide lots of pulpy tropes for GMs and players to work with. And a rigidly utopian society is great pulp fiction fodder. It's been a staple of science fiction.

I'm also not surprised that they didn't do much more with it because every GM would have a decision to make in their own Golarion campaigns - how is this rigidly utopian society working out? Is it real or just a veneer?

I think it's like the "What killed Aroden" question - an idea-generating concept that's up to the individuals to take and run with and define on their own rather than have Paizo do it.

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Removed some posts and their replies.

As the discussion of moral issues became a discussion of real world events, regimes, and morality it was both off topic for the thread and an inappropriate discussion to have on our forums.

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Removed a post and its reply. Any concerns with moderation can be addressed through the community@paizo.com email address.


Sam Phelan wrote:
Any concerns with moderation can be addressed through the community@paizo.com email address.

ISTR seeing a mod say threads about moderated/closed threads could be started in the Website Feedback forum? Is that an option, or is it straight to email? Asking on general principles, I'm fine with the state of this thread here.

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Y'all this thread took a hard left straight off the rails and deep into the weeds right from the get go and after talking to Sam, it appears that she thought she had started removing posts at the beginning of the eugenics derail, but had missed the earlier portion of the thread. I've removed some additional posts to hit the reset button on this topic. Please try discussion chromatic and metallic dragons again without getting bogged down in discussing eugenics.

With regards to moderation questions, if you have a question or concern regarding a specific account or where the discussion is likely going to involve personal data, starting with email is going to be the best bet. Generally speaking, making inquiries about why something happened or didn't happen is going to go smoother than assuming something like "Paizo is pro-eugenics." All but one of our moderators are human, and even the Spam Laser makes moderation errors sometimes. Thanks!


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The broader question is when the benevolant overlord, who makes the decisions for everyone because he is smarter, wiser, and more virtous, crosses the line to be another tyrant.

I can see that being the path to falling for metallics.


Java Man wrote:

The broader question is when the benevolant overlord, who makes the decisions for everyone because he is smarter, wiser, and more virtous, crosses the line to be another tyrant.

Isn't that any given king of any given land only without potentially the smarter/wiser/virtue bit?

Say what you will about Mengk, at least he very likely is smarter and wiser than virtually everyone not packing PC stats around by a fairly massive margin.


Java Man wrote:
The broader question is when the benevolant overlord, who makes the decisions for everyone because he is smarter, wiser, and more virtous, crosses the line to be another tyrant.

What line? All that is required to be a tyrant is to have absolute power, which Goldilocks already has per the contract he requires citizens to sign. He's a tyrant by his own admission.


By tyrant I mean evil dictator, could have been more specific. When does "for your own good" cross the line into being a removal of free will that no longer counts as good?


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Java Man wrote:
By tyrant I mean evil dictator, could have been more specific. When does "for your own good" cross the line into being a removal of free will that no longer counts as good?

Ask Plato. He seems to have figured this out over two millenia ago. Naturally, not only have we not learned from it, we're repeating it yet again at this very moment.

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I am sorry that I brought up Mengkare -- I did so precisely to mention that there is a metallic dragon who is not clearly and unambiguously good. But with no official stats (or even alignment) ever given, any discussion of him quickly flies off the rails. Mengkare's existence is canonical, but his alignment and personality are left to the GM.

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