Looking for feedback on an Archmage's Sanctum.


Advice

Scarab Sages

Ok this was made using a 10th level mythic ranked archmage giving me 60 20 foot cubes to make it with and I'm looking for feedback on if I've forgotten something, should redesign it or have messed up on the rules. If anyone's interested I'll post a more detailed description of the decor.

General layout of the sanctum is an inner area 3 x 3 20 foot cubes in size with 3 layers stacked on each other, a ring around that of 2 layers high and 1 extra cube on the left for the throne room. For the non-walled edges going over brings you back in on the other side of the contained sanctum e.g. sticking an arm out <- direction will make it appear on -> side). The ceiling is solid so if you try to fly up more than 40' you'll bang into it.

Garden
The inner 3 x 3 x 3 area. The bottom 20' is dirt and soil for the tree roots. These are a small garden area with a pond (15 feet across dropping to 5 feet deep in the center), a number of fruit trees scattered around and in the dead center is a marble arch where the gateway to access it opens.

Walkway
A 5 foot stone walk way ringing the garden with stairs in the corners taking people up to the 2nd and 3rd floors.

10 Foot High Rooms.
Each of these unless noted otherwise is a 20' by 20' by 10' room accessed from the ground floor. These are listed in left to right and downards order.

1,2,2,3,4
1,5,5,5,4
6,6,5,5,5,3
7,5,5,5,8
7,9,10,11,8

1: Kitchen (40 x 20 x 10)
2: Dining Room (40 x 20 x 10)
3: Guest Bedroom
4: Bathroom (40 x 20 x 10)
5: Garden (60 x 60 x 40)
6: Throne Room (40 x 20 x 20)
7: Storage
8: Library (40 x 20 x 30)
9: Trophy Hall
10: Stables
11: Carpentry Workshop

20 Foot High Rooms.
Each of these unless noted otherwise is a 20' by 20' by 10' room accessed from the 1st floor balcony. These are listed in left to right and downards order.

1,2,2,3,1
1,4,4,4,1
5,5,4,4,4,3
6,4,4,4,7
8,9,10,11,7

1: Bathroom (40 x 20 x 10)
2: Bedroom Suite (40 x 20 x 10)
3: Guest Bedroom
4: Garden (60 x 60 x 40)
5: Throne Room (40 x 20 x 20)
6: Office (30 x 20 x 10. 10 foot 'box' extends into the throne room)
7: Library (40 x 20 x 30)
8: Auditorium (Music, choir, acting stage and seating to enjoy)
9: Common Room (General purpose room)
10: Alchemic Laboratory
11: Magic Laboratory

30 Foot High Rooms.
Each of these unless noted otherwise is a 20' by 20' by 10' room accessed from the 1st floor balcony. These are listed in left to right and downards order.

1,1,1,1,1
1,2,2,2,1
1,2,2,2,1
3,2,2,2,4
5,6,7,8,4

1: Roof of 20' buildings, has a 5' crenalted wall around the edge.
2: Garden (60 x 60 x 40)
3: Smithy
4: Library
5: Armory
6: Combat Training Area
7: Rogue Training Area
8: Workshop (Not sure what but it gives a nice U shape)

40 Foot High Rooms.
Each of these unless noted otherwise is a 20' by 20' by 10' room accessed from the 1st floor balcony. These are listed in left to right and downards order.

1,1,1,1,1
1,2,2,2,1
1,2,2,2,1
3,2,2,2,3
3,3,3,3,3

1: Open Air.
2: Garden (60 x 60 x 40)
3: Roof of 30' buildings, has a 5' crenalted wall around the edge.


What exactly are you looking for? Is this a spell creation --> Create Demiplane line of spells? What system or rules did you use to create the stronghold?

Are you asking if you need to break the Combat Training Area (or other areas) into different sorts of training such as Mounted Combat, Archery, Melee etc.?

Who is going to live here? It has a Throne Room so ... a Ruler?

What is the purpose or function of the building, where will it be located (bordering on the wilderness, a hostile border, well within the borders of peaceful lands, on a lake or river)? What sort of terrain (Mountains, Forest, Grasslands etc.)?


Kayerloth wrote:
What system or rules did you use to create the stronghold?

An Archmage's Sanctum is a 6th-tier Mythic ability.

Archmage wrote:
Sanctum (Su) (Mythic Adventures pg. 19): You gain access to your own personal extradimensional sanctum. By concentrating for 1 minute without interruption, you conjure the door to your own personal sanctum, similar to mage’s magnificent mansion, but with the following differences. The sanctum takes up a space equal to six 20-foot cubes per tier, shapeable when you first create it as if it were a spell whose area or effect is shapeable. The sanctum is permanent and persistent, so you can store objects within the sanctum and retrieve them on future visits. The sanctum includes one unseen servant per tier. When you conjure the sanctum’s door, you decide which creatures can see and use it (to all other creatures it’s invisible and impermeable). The door remains until you dismiss it—a standard action with unlimited range as long as you are on the same plane as the door. If you dismiss the door while you are outside the sanctum, all creatures other than your familiar are immediately shunted outside. Conjuring the door automatically dismisses any other active door. As a full-round action, your familiar can enter or leave the sanctum from any square adjacent to you, without using the conjured door.

Scarab Sages

As Fuzzy-Wuzzy said the rules are the 6th tier mythic ability from the archmage path. It allows you to create a sanctum with 6 20 foot cubes per tier.

Its an extradimensional (I think) sanctum for a powerful archmage to live out their immortal life in and contains rooms and facilities for them to do the various roles they may be called on to do including allowing visitors, fighters and thieves to practice their skills and remind anyone bothering them for aid that they are where the power lies.


To answer Kayerloth's questions:

Senko is using Mythic Adventures and Stronghold Builders Guide (3e). The path ability Archmage's Sanctum is being used to determine the volume of this private dimension, while the fine detail of the space used is using stronghold builder rules (with possibly unlimited budget).

This is the third thread (?) in a series regarding this topic.

Scarab Sages

Yep third first was asking about specific details on one room, second was a rules question and this is general advice on what people think of the finished product.

As for the budget much as I'd like an unlimited one and technically the sanctum ability may allow it at least up to magnicant mansion levels. The actual interior of the rooms is more modest than the guide would give you. I used it more for working out how much space I'd need. Its part of why I didn't post specific descriptions of each room as while I have a good idea what I want I'm still searching to try and work out the limits of what you'd get from that.

For example while I'd like a throne room where pink marble steps rise up to a gem encrusted mithril throne its more likely to be a raised daias with a wooden one. On the other hand I do think I can get away with the bottom 20 foot cubes in the garden being filled with rich, fertile soil since even if the spell can't create that it'd be easy for a powerful wizard to "borrow" it from a handy, uninhabited area.

The trick is figuring out how its permanency reacts with the magic spell. Specifically having a mithril throne is fine if it dissipates into smoke on leaving the sanctum (as an item leaving the mansion does) on the other hand if it doesn't then there needs to be a limit on decorations. Well that and if its got food or if I need to import it but I'm sure someone's asked this previously I just need to find the thread.


I would do some more thinking about what you want this sanctum to do. Is it a personal private research area/private retreat, a public Throneroom and or Meeting space, a tactical field utility (a place to retreat to from field operations, attack from with a sudden surge of minions, or just a field armory for your familiar to fetch things from)? All three? Does it need to be defensible (either field utility, or what happens when that demon you're conjuring breaks loose)? How big does the entry/exit need to be (also known as do you have a gigantic dragon to ride on)?

In general, I suspect that the circular configuration may not be optimal. A linear one offers defensive advantages - especially if you control the "wrap around" dimension effect...

Consider a layout like the following:

DODXXXXXXXXXXX
DODDOOOOPPPPPXX
DOOOOOOOPPPPPMX
DDDDOOOOPPPPPMX
XXXXXXXXXXXMMM
XXXXXXXXXXXMMM
XXXXXXXXXXXMMM
XXXXXXXXXXXMMM

Each square is a 20X20 cube. X's are non spaces, D is a defensive bunker/minion space, O are open (Entryway and your tree garden), P are public spaces, and M are personal spaces. Uses 57 of your cubes, so you have 3 more to play with...

Scarab Sages

Pretty much a personal retreat with the aknowledgement that annoying mortals will keep cropping up either as petitioners "Oh mighty one where is the princess." or hero's "You're going down this time dark lord." and you may as well have a throne room to intimidate or impress the petitioners rather than having to fight off irregular infestations of heroes.

Most of it you'll notice is about comfortable luxury storage, bedrooms, dining halls, workshops, libraries. The only real concessions to other's needs are guest bedrooms, a throne room and the 2 training areas because even an immortal archmage once had adventuring companions who'd need a place to stay and relax.

Circular building surrounding a garden appeals to me on a personal level and is a concession to the size limits this game pushes on players. Even as a lvl 20/MR 10 wizard you don't have access to the ability to say craft a small island with a castle on it demiplane without expending ridiculous amounts of resources or gaming the system and giving rise to protests about wizards needing a nerf. For instance 20' is actually only around 6m high and trees can get up to 100 feet high or 30 meters. Apple tree's can get up to 30' high, oranges up to 22', Cherry tree's 12-14 which would fit in one cube but still you've got to allow for a root system which again can easily reach 20' deep. To be honest its my desire to get tree's in the garden that requires that area be 3 cubes high soil, tree, tree. Which in turn pushes limits on what I can do elsewhere.

Thankfully I'm not some poor druid who wanted a private grove. I did experiment with a more spread out layout but then you start running into issues with the height that while present here are semi-hidden as the open area stretch's 18m up in the air so only flyers or those jumping on the third floor would notice.

That said I'm not sure what you mean by defensive bunker/minion space are we talking a small concrete building or something different? Similarly is a non-space an open cube with nothing in it except what you chuck there or just a text place holder?


A non space is a 20' cube that's not there in the dimensional fabric, it's just shown to make the text diagram to work. Nothing says that your dimension needs to be a simple shape. Think of your pocket dimension as a tunnel network with branches - you use the 20' cubes to define the tunnels, not the rock around them...

The defensive bunker spaces would collectively act like a castle's barbican complex - a fortification to protect the entryway & house your on-call brute squad(s) (all ready to charge out and serve tea and crumpets as necessary). You do have on-call brutes right, they're the de-rigeur social accessory for any high level caster, comes in a variety of styles from dominated giants to constructs to bound outsiders. Such a faux-pas to be caught without, and they're so terribly useful in tedious situations...

WRT to the trees, I would suggest cheating - say using simulacrum to make treants (more loyal servants, and they don't have a deep root system), and shape simulacrum to make them into the style of trees you want, with the appropriate height (ie bonsai'ed as necessary to fit the 20' height limit). They can be decorative (being simulacrums, they don't change, so all the different trees can be in bloom at the same time), and can re-arrange themselves at your convenience if you want to hold a garden party.

Scarab Sages

Ok I wanted to spend some more time playing around with your suggestions of simulcrums and non-linear geometary but a job I've had an eye out for over the past few years has been advertised and I'm going to be busy putting together an application so I'm just going to post a few quick responses.

1) No minions this is a place for them to get away from annoying pests not have them under foot. Add in that they're mythic 10 and anything strong enough to threaten them would go through most defensive troops with ease while anything that would be stopped by them would be crushed easily. Plus the fact they've not left any enemies alive and it just doesn't fit with what I'm going for here. They also have access to armies on a number of planes of existence if they really need to call in debts. As a defensive location sanctum just doesn't seem to have enough room.

2) There is something to shifting geometary but it does rather detract from the home aspect for most beings I'd imagine. Still there is something to the idea of hidden coves that appeals to me. You just come back to that whole space limit. I swear you'd think mythic sanctum lvl 6 path ability would dump the harsh size restrictions and just let you craft what you want with GM approval. I've had to abandon so many nice ideas because of this.

3) Simulcrum tree's would get expensive if I'm remembering the spell right. I suppose it could work for decoration but could you pick an apple and eat it? Then again if you're working with treeants I doubt they'd appreciate it and your back in the whole minion issue.


Senko wrote:
You just come back to that whole space limit. I swear you'd think mythic sanctum lvl 6 path ability would dump the harsh size restrictions and just let you craft what you want with GM approval. I've had to abandon so many nice ideas because of this.

Do I remember correctly from your previous threads on this that you are the GM here, making an NPC archmage? If so, you could invent and give them a higher-tier Greater Sanctum ability that loosens or removes the size restriction as well as tossing in whatever other features you've been wanting. Just a thought.

Scarab Sages

I could but I try to stick with the rules or if I houserule know why what I'm changing is the way it is and do it for PC's as well as NPC's. If I gave the mage extra space I'd feel compelled to let players have the same. However since I don't understand why they're that way I'm reluctant to change them even if I don't agree with them. Still that's just general grumbling from me about the way space restrictions seem so tight on higher level spells/abiltiies I mean technically speaking you can make a bigger private plane using create demi-plane and mythic ignore component than you can with the lvl 6 path ability and its special rules often hurt as much as they help but that's another thread.

For me as a player a large appeal of seeing the higher level NPCs is the knowledge "I can do that" maybe not in the campaign if it ends earlier but theoretically I can duplicate their achievements and make them my own with a tweak here or there. Running into a unique NPC with special rules just for them pulls me out of the game because rather than "Wow this is amazing" I wind up thinking "great another thing I can't do because I'm a player." As for a higher tier 6th tier is the highest level path ability for a mythic master of magic and like i said you get less space than a standard football field or druids grove needs.


Oh, I absolutely agree the PCs are entitled to get the same ability if they reach that tier. That's why you invent a higher-tier Greater Sanctum ability instead of just making Sanctum spiffier for the NPC. While the mythic rules do not include any path abilities with prereqs beyond 6th tier, AFAICT they don't forbid such things either.

Scarab Sages

Hmmm.


Not familiar enough with the Mythic Rules but will point out that the Create Demiplane line of spells can both be made permanent and added together to create in theory a plane of pretty much any size desired if the caster is immortal. Place the Sanctum within the Created Demiplane(s) as an "innermost" portion, which being only accessible after gaining access to the Created Demiplane region ... more of an Archmages Inner Sanctum. In that sense it would be like the Created Demiplane(s) is the upper layer of a (at least) 2 layered set of larger extradimensional demiplane, if you follow me. Much like the working model for how the first layer of Hell is where everyone arrives when they travel to Hell then you have to find specific portals to access the 2nd and 'lower' layers of Hell, travelling downward to arrive in the 9th layer.


Got some weird message trying to add an Edit to my above post so:

Makes a certain sense if the Archmage progressed to this path having already created his own personal demense via the Create Demiplane line of spells then interconnecting the whole with his Sanctum if he was a higher level caster.

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