Vision is coming back in the Disney+ series "WandaVision." But I expect it will be a Mind-Stoneless version with a backup program Shuri made (Shuri couldn't have revived him sooner because she had been snapped).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Nah. Clearly it was made of plotonium, and he put it together in a cave, from scrap.
I keep seeing these articles about how big a deal it is that Cap went to Vormir off-screen and bumped into the Red Skull again, and I'm like, 'Whatever. How about *sneaking into Asgard, past Heimdall, and injecting the Reality Stone back into Jane Foster, against her will, in the middle of Odin's palace?* Was that a walk in the park?' :)
If he still had the Mind Stone at that point, perhaps he used it to mask his presence from Heimdall, and Jedi hand-wave Jane to be able to restore the Reality Stone.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Okay, random thought that occurred to me while washing the dishes:
What happened to Ghost?
At the end of Ant-Man and the Wasp, Scott was collecting particles to help her keep her form stable when the Pyms were all dusted.
He returns five years later. First, he no longer seems to have his collection device with him, and second--would it matter? If Ghost was snapped, maybe it wouldn't. She would reappear after Bruce's snap and not be too much the worse for wear.
If she wasn't snapped, however, she'd be waiting on quantum particles that never came. Would she end up either disintegrating, or if her intangibility has the same source as Dr. Wilkes' in Agent Carter, being absorbed into the Dark Dimension? Would she develop a better way to keep herself stable but return to bitterness and villainy?
|
What happened to Ghost?
Ooh, that's a thought!
After Ant-Man & the Wasp, I theorized that, without Lang's delivery of fresh particles, she might flip back to villainy and join a Thunderbolts type crew.
But a five year time jump was not in my calculations, and would pretty much kill her off if she wasn't snapped!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Throughout the last two movies, I was wondering, what happened to Adam Warlock?
He was always supposed to return in GOTG3 and not before (despite his involvement with the Infinity Stones in the comics).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
What Carol was doing was taking ass and kicking names, to use Mantis's words. What everyone else was doing was setting up a dramatic shot for Rule of Cool, because superhero movie and also Big Boss Fight and also Perhaps Clunky Dialogue, but mainly Rule of Cool.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Judging by how much the 700 people in the theater with me stomped, clapped, and cheered, it was pretty f$+%ing cool.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Seems like Cap would/should have been the worst person chosen to return the stones. It's hard to imagine a guy who says, "If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it," be able to ignore all this evil (or even perform harmful acts, such as re-infecting Jane). I recognize the Snap and the horrible consequences if the stones are not returned provides grander perspective, but here.
On the other hand:
Red Skull Wrath: "Welcome, traveler, to Vormir. If you're here for the Soul Stone, I'm afraid it's already-"
{Captain America steps from the shadows}
RSW: "Why are you here, Rogers? You already have the Soul Stone. Have you come to torment me?"
Steve Rogers: "I'm here to return the Soul Stone."
RSW: "Fine." {stretches out hand}
Rogers: "No. The rule is 'A soul for a soul'. I'll return the Soul Stone. In exchange, I get back the soul that was paid. I'm here for Natasha."
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Unfortunately, Ambrosia, IIRC either the Russos and/or the writers Jossed that idea, saying it's an irrevocable exchange and it's not that easy. And again, if Cap were being at all in character, he would have tried to trade himself for her let alone the stone (which per the rules, might work better since it's a different transaction), but that didn't happen because it was more important and heroic for him, apparently, to stay alive to go motorboatin' in the 40s, so to hell with the friend who stood by him come hell or highwater and had his back literally more than anyone else ever, yes even Sam, for the last 11+ years (note time qualifier; obviously Bucky was there for him longer during his formative years, but at that point he hadn't seen him for the last 5 years). Did I want him to just die? No. But it's something that would have been in his nature to try.
Also anyone who went could have (and might have) tried to trade the stone for Natasha, it didn't need to be Cap.
'Course the whole returning the stones thing was handled with a giant mega-assload of Handwavium anyway because the movie was already too long.
Now I'm getting grumpy again. Thinks of her favorite awesome bits again. Ah, that's better. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Russos have repeatedly said that Cap created an alternate timeline, and may have gone to attempt to create a better world with his foreknowledge (although I wonder how successful he would have been at saving Bucky. He'd have to find him, extract him, and de-brainwash him without Wakanda's aid; one also wonders at further consequences, e.g., if Bucky is rescued and Howard Stark isn't killed, does that actually mean Tony isn't changed enough from his ordeals that he never becomes a hero). They say he jumped back but somehow didn't show up on the platform because Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey and also Pym Particles; maybe it COULD have been new tech from his timeline, but if he had the Pym Particles and the suit it may not have been necessary.
Markus and McFeely (the primary screenwriters) on the other hand have repeatedly said that Cap went back to about 1948 (post the events of Agent Carter) and created a stable time loop, because he didn't interfere with his own past, and just aged to return to sitting on the bench the old fashioned way (and there'd be no new tech that way because he didn't do anything significant to change things).
Kevin Feige, when asked in a recent Reddit AMA, which was correct, he said "yes" (well, he said "yes," he could identify which was the canon answer but didn't identify which one).
The answer to this conundrum is superhero stories need to stop involving time travel in them at all ever. Unless you're the Legends of Tomorrow and you're having a Bollywood musical number in Regency England.
Honestly it's probably best that people just decide on their headcanon and leave it be (and as Irontruth said way back, they should have left far more to the imagination to the audience than they did. The more details, the more nitpicking those details--which my head hasn't been able to stop doing for the last month).
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Original Vormir scene included Black Widow fight with Thanos.
“On script and what we first shot was an excellent scene,” Schmidt said. “Thanos and his soldiers show up on Vormir and a small battle ensues between them and Natasha and Clint. Natasha decides to run off the cliff. Clint tries to stop her while also fending off the attack.”
The Black Widow-Thanos battle tested positively with audiences during test screenings, so it was never a priority for the editing team or the Russo brothers to change the moment. However, the group realized before reshoots were set to begin that a better option was available to them.
"Better" option? You mean we could have gotten to see Natasha in a decent fight (she had almost no combat in the film) and a much more heroic sendoff (and yes I know Thanos could kill her toe to toe--which is why it would have been amazing to see them struggling to just survive till they could get to the cliff)--one that was filmed and actually pinged well with test audiences--and you canned it anyway for some canned contrived sappy nonsensical b*+@$@~& with Hawkeye?
OH MY GOD. F!~* HAWKEYE. F$#+ THE RUSSOS. F$#! MARVEL STUDIOS. AND F*%$ THE MCU.
I'm done.
(Until Captain Marvel 2 comes out, because I am weak.)
Bye everyone. I'll stop hogging the thread at least now. Carry on, my wayward sons.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Unfortunately, Ambrosia, IIRC either the Russos and/or the writers Jossed that idea, saying it's an irrevocable exchange and it's not that easy.
Except I will bet folding money that Gunn is already working out some narrative way to retrieve Gamora from the Soul Stone doing some Adam Warlock-rule-breaky horsesh!t in GotG3 similar to what's gone down in the comics. Which I'm fine with. But I'm not fine with bending/breaking the rules to bring back Gamora* and not Nat.
And double dumb-ass on the Russos and Endgame writers for killing most of the publics interest in the upcoming Black Widow movie.
* Which, to be honest, Gamora is only coming back as part of Quill's character arc/development, not her own.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I never understood the Hawkeye hate. Then, again, I remember playing an Avengers video game as a kid, with Hawkeye as my favorite to play, so I may be biased.
I'm a big fan of comic-book Hawkeye, from his early days as the sarcastic ex-carny pain-in-Captain-America's-butt of the 'Kooky Quartet' (when *he's* the difficult one, on a team with Quicksilver, you know he's difficult!), to the great run of Thunderbolts that had him in charge. Various writers like Byrne and Waid have used him very well.
But for the MCU, by the time they had introduced him, all of his characterization milkshake had already been drunk by their snarky quippy 'doesn't play well with others' version of Tony Stark (who, himself, was little like the comic book version of the character, up until movie synergy changed his comic book characterization to be more like RBDJr's portrayal). And so he became deadly dull.
The guy who, in the comics, would get in quip-offs mid-battle with Spider-Man, was left with straight-man lines like 'You and I remember Budapest very differently.'
The actor has also said some things that annoyed me, like calling the character of Black Widow a slut, or that he didn't support an actress for wanting more equal pay because it's not his job. But even if I loved the actor, I'd still be disappointed by the MCU character.
I felt robbed when Quicksilver died instead of him in Age of Ultron, because Quicksilver seemed like a much more dynamic character. Now we lose the Black Widow to save him. Ugh. I feel like this is turning into a running gag. Tease that Hawkeye is about to die. Some character I actually like dies instead. Who's next? Winter Soldier? The Wasp? Grr.
Good thing they replaced the woman who was *coordinating the entire world's superhuman community for the last five years* with some dude who had already retired to spend time with his family... :/
Still like comic book Hawkeye, 'though. That hasn't changed, although I do prefer writers who can handle the character respectfully, while still acknowledging that he can be difficult, ornery and a bit of a 'hard luck hero,' but in no way washed up or incompetent or a bumbler. (That can be a fine line, at times, so I respect the writers that can walk it.)
My slight pivot on the scene would have been Nat trying to keep Barton from falling.
And then Barton looking at her with a grimace. "I murdered for no good. Bruce needs you. If this works, take care of --" then falls to his death.
The only narrative problem I see with it is that Nat is too pragmatic, and if she had the Infinity football, she'd USE it to sort everything out sooner, which could kill dramatic tension.
Still would have been better, imo. Stark would get to keep on working to be a good parent. Bruce could live with seeing it happen -- after all, he knows what that power does to a body..
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There's a fan written ending for Endgame going around about Thor using the gauntlet to snap away Thanos' army and bring back Asgard. It's a feel good kind of idea that I don't think fits the movie but its a damn nice dream. I'll link it here if I run across it again.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The critically-derided new Godzilla script stands up to scrutiny better than this one does.
Which is PAINFUL.
Well I guess now I have extra reason to go see it...
So I just wanted to talk about the alternate time travel rules.
So a few questions I have my theories but I wanted to hear others.
Warning Heavy nerding out ahead.
1. Did each set of avengers go to a completely original time line. In other words In one time line 2 caps fought while in another hulk got the time gem from the ancient one while in another still BW saced herself for the soul gem. So basically did any of those events effect that time line they were working with. I would say no they basically each created another split.
2. Is their anything stopping you from continuously going back to the same time line. and grabbing the same infinity stone or hammers over and over. In theory each time you go back you should be going back to a different time line. It basically works out to be like a video game level resting every time.
3. Was it even possible for cap to return the items. If he were to go back to his own time line. then the items would never have been stolen. I think the fix for this is maybe since he's following a specific trail in the quantum realm as long as the path is the same it should take him to the right time line.
4. If the infinity stones only work I their universe (Which to be fair the movies did not establish that. ) Would taking them to a different time line which is effectively a different universe make the not work. Obviously they do since they did so maybe the universe is similar enough or alternate time lines don't count for the infinity stones. Should the time stone of worked in Dormamu's realm and would they work in the quantum realm? I think in those cases those are more universe in a universe then their own separate so My guess is yes.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1. Did each set of avengers go to a completely original time line. In other words In one time line 2 caps fought while in another hulk got the time gem from the ancient one while in another still BW saced herself for the soul gem. So basically did any of those events effect that time line they were working with. I would say no they basically each created another split.
Brain hurts...
2. Is their anything stopping you from continuously going back to the same time line. and grabbing the same infinity stone or hammers over and over. In theory each time you go back you should be going back to a different time line. It basically works out to be like a video game level resting every time.
If this was a game, the GM would explicitly forbid it, and declare it cheesy! But the 'GM' here seemed fine with Thor stealing the Mjolnir of this timeline's Thor and leaving with it, possibly never to return (and despite not really needing it). Actually, so was his mom... Weird.
3. Was it even possible for cap to return the items. If he were to go back to his own time line. then the items would never have been stolen. I think the fix for this is maybe since he's following a specific trail in the quantum realm as long as the path is the same it should take him to the right time line.
I assume that Tony's time-rolex was guiding him back to the appropriate points in time from which the stones were taken, to return them, thereby patching up those specific timelines (that only existed independent of the core timeline because they changed something by removing the stones, and Mjolnir, from them in the first place, meaning that, possibly, they might even have remerged with the core timeline and ceased to exist, sort of like branches growing back into the trunk of a tree).
OTOH, a universe where Loki is still alive and kicking seems likely to be a thing, since he's got a show coming up on Disney/Marvel-Takes-All-Your-Money-Vision.
And there's a universe where Cap showed up in the fifties after ditching his plane in the water and joined Peggy around the time she would have been helping the SSR transition into SHIELD, and presumably nixed the growth of Arnim Zola's 'beautiful parasite' in the bud, and stopped Bucky from killing Howard Stark (since he knew the exact date, and even the road it happened on!), and done a few other things to make for a *wildly* different world than the MCU we've watched for the last 10+ years.
4. If the infinity stones only work I their universe (Which to be fair the movies did not establish that. ) Would taking them to a different time line which is effectively a different universe make the not work. Obviously they do since they did so maybe the universe is similar enough or alternate time lines don't count for the infinity stones. Should the time stone of worked in Dormamu's realm and would they work in the quantum realm? I think in those cases those are more universe in a universe then their own separate so My guess is yes.
The origin of the MCU stones was as fragments left over from a previous iteration of the universe, which suggests that they are *already* working in another dimension (since the current reality isn't their home dimension). So, yeah, I'd imagine that they don't have any problem working in other dimensions (and we've already seen that the time stone can work just fine in a dimension that normally doesn't even have time!).
So I just wanted to talk about the alternate time travel rules.
So a few questions I have my theories but I wanted to hear others.
Warning Heavy nerding out ahead.
1. Did each set of avengers go to a completely original time line. In other words In one time line 2 caps fought while in another hulk got the time gem from the ancient one while in another still BW saced herself for the soul gem. So basically did any of those events effect that time line they were working with. I would say no they basically each created another split.
2. Is their anything stopping you from continuously going back to the same time line. and grabbing the same infinity stone or hammers over and over. In theory each time you go back you should be going back to a different time line. It basically works out to be like a video game level resting every time.
3. Was it even possible for cap to return the items. If he were to go back to his own time line. then the items would never have been stolen. I think the fix for this is maybe since he's following a specific trail in the quantum realm as long as the path is the same it should take him to the right time line.
4. If the infinity stones only work I their universe (Which to be fair the movies did not establish that. ) Would taking them to a different time line which is effectively a different universe make the not work. Obviously they do since they did so maybe the universe is similar enough or alternate time lines don't count for the infinity stones. Should the time stone of worked in Dormamu's realm and would they work in the quantum realm? I think in those cases those are more universe in a universe then their own separate so My guess is yes.
1. The timeline would only be different for each instance of time travel. So there is one new timeline where Loki escapes and Banner talks to the Ancient One, not two
2. This is the one that hurts my brain. Presumably yes, but in the context of the movie they had a limited supply of pym particles so they couldn't try this if they wanted.
3. No clue. By the laws laid down I would trying to fix them by default would create a new timeline
4. Probably depends on the Universe?
I as far as I know, Timeline =/= Universe; each Universe can have multiple timelines.
From that perspective, only one Universe was shown in Endgame .
I'm not sure my take on all this fits with established facts in the movie(s), but I'd like to believe that:
1. As MMCJawa said, there'd be one new branching timeline per instance of time travel.
2. It wouldn't be quite like a video game resetting, because all previous alterations to the timeline(s) remain in place, even if only in now-closed branches that grew back into the original tree. The loop is still there, it just no longer develops independently. So if you go back to 9:30AM on a given date, take the stones when no one is looking, and return them at 9:35AM the same day, you have a very short loop. So far, so good.
Now, from a later point in the original timeline, you should certainly be able to go back to any point after 9:35AM and collect the stones again, starting a second branch from the original timeline which you will probably close off shortly.
A question only arises when you (or more probably someone else) tries to go back to 9:29AM and take the stones before you did, or do back to 9:31AM and fight you for them. Creating branches off of now-closed loops gives me a headache.
In the 9:29AM scenario, it's all cool if you can somehow resolve the upcoming paradox and return the stones to their original location before 9:30AM. If you can't, then you are left with a branch where the first loop never happened, and might need to resolve that either by having branch #2 remerge with branch #1, or with the original timeline at a point after loop #1 remerged with the original line: two concentric loops that never interact with each other. If you don't resolve the paradox in either manner, the branching timeline continues on its own indefinitely.
In the 9:31 scenario, if you want to preserve the integrity of the original timeline, you must do so in a way that allows loop #1 to end as it originally did. Concentric loops aren't an option here because loop #2 makes loop #1 impossible. But it can't be impossible, because it did happen, just not in the main timeline. So this only works if you can actually erase historical events from a timeline, rather than create a branch.
3. As Set suggested, "repairing" a branched timeline by removing (from that point forward) the changes you'd made will cause that timeline to remerge with the timeline from which it originally diverged.
4. As noted above, I don't think Timeline = Universe. I think the stones should work just fine across all timelines in their native universe, but might not work in different universes...or might work differently in other universes.
I think you are right about the timeline = universe thing.
I think all you guys had some good input.
How It Should Have Ended
Great series.
|
Seems like a good enough place to put this....
A World To Patch: Samuel L. Jackson Shares His Belief That The MCU Still Needs ‘Avengers’ Movies
I do hope they continue with Avengers movies, even if my two favorite Avengers (Stark and Rogers) will be missing. I do wonder what kind of Big Bad Threat they can come up with for this next round. Thankfully, they've got plenty of villains to choose from.
Hell, maybe the next big story can also be a two-parter: One part in Avengers, the other in FF. That could be cool.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My top choices: Galactus, Annihilus (so we can get the Annihilation Wave), and probably Kang.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
For the record, I hate Kang. As a villain, as a motivator of characters, as .. just about anything.
He's a megalo-maniac who *could* if he were willing to invest some consideration and effort, win any battle he chooses. So he has to bounce the Idiot Ball into his face over and over, and if even that's not enough, the nature of space-and-time have to bow outwards so that he can be defeated again.
We just had a massive storyline with time travel that didn't follow its own internal logic. And if we have Kang in the batting box, I'll guarantee there'll be another.
Right now, there's no canonical team. It would probably be led by the Black Panther, but maybe not. Spider-man would probably be a member, but who knows? I'd like to see Morgaine Le Fay as the villain, with ancient magic, intrigue, and an end-of-the-day save by the Scarlet Witch.
Morganaine is a good choice...but I feel like that's more something that would require both Strange AND Scarlet Witch to handle.
I know time travel is a mess...but I still like Kang. :p
|
|
For the record, I hate Kang. As a villain, as a motivator of characters, as .. just about anything.
I like Kang, but hate time travel stories, because they always fall apart under the 'why didn't they go back to before...' logic and it kind of eliminates any sense of pressure or consequence when anything can be undone, so who really cares what happens, or how long you fart around before getting to the point where you are going to go back and undo it all anyway.
Sure, with harsh, harsh limits on time travel, like, a version of Kang who could only port into very specific moments in time, for inscrutable reasons (and not go back to an optimal time, like when everyone is dealing with Thanos or the Chitauri or babies in their cribs or whatever), it could work, but then it would hardly be a Kang story.
(That said, I'd kill to see a story with some time hopping villain bringing in an army composed of armored cyborg-dinosaurs and Roman legionnaires with energy weapons. I'm a sucker for anachronisms!)
Right now, there's no canonical team. It would probably be led by the Black Panther, but maybe not. Spider-man would probably be a member, but who knows? I'd like to see Morgaine Le Fay as the villain, with ancient magic, intrigue, and an end-of-the-day save by the Scarlet Witch.
That would be neat, particularly if they riffed off of one of the arcs where Morgana (or Kulan Garth) fantasy-fied the Avengers and the world into a faux medieval version of itself with her as the queen. Those arcs were always visual treats, and it was always fun seeing fantasy versions of heroes, particularly tech-based heroes.
(Who, lots of variant toy costumes! Medieval Spider-Man! Do it, Disney!)